Dad with full custody, mother wants custody back.

[stringplucker]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? I live in PA, case is in Ohio

Roughly 18 months ago, I gained full custody of my three teenaged children. Since then, the oldest child has become a legal adult.

Their mother signed custody over to me during the custody hearing after I agreed to forgo child support. I lived in PA at the time, and still do. The case was in Ohio because that is where the kids lived then with their mother.

On my side, I had the Guardian Ad Litem report, Children's Services report, Police Report, medical reports, plus many years of poor grades in school by the youngest two children. Once she realized that the judge was most likely going to rule in my favor, and after I agreed to no child support, she signed them over.

Now, she's changed her mind and has filed for custody, even though both younger (17 and 14) don't want to return to live.

During the last 18 months, she has only exercised her weekend visitation twice, but did exercise Thanksgiving and Christmas visitation, as well as the every other week during the summer.

I own my house without mortgage, she lives with her parents. I have provided the children with a learning environment, and both children have thrived at school, with highly improved grades, involvement in school based activities, etc. I demand that the children do their best...even if their best isn't THE best around...as long as they did their best, all is well. The lowest grade either have had at the end of the grading period was a C, when F's were the norm.

Their mother has filed for custody, on the grounds that she can provide better financial aid for the children. I am on long term disability currently due to dizziness caused by an unknown reason. I am remarried, and have my wife to assist in raising the children.

I have countered with a request for child support and a decrease in visitation, since she doesn't exercise it, other than holidays and summertime.

My question...can the GAL report, as well as other reports I obtained during the last custody hearing be used this time around, even though they weren't actually used by the court last time?

I am not currently on any welfare programs, own my house without a mortgage, own my vehicles without loans, have no loans at all, and only have to pay my taxes and utilities, as well as food. My food situation is stellar, as I have three 2'X4' shelf units filled with food, as well as a 22 ci freezer filled with meats and vegetables. My house is a 3 bedroom, 2 bath home with yard in a decent school district that is listed as improving. Their mother lives in a city where the district has had poor ratings from the state. The graduation rate is higher in our district than it is in the district where their mother lives.

Her filing points include a claim of verbal abuse, lack of thriving in current situation, her belief of it being the best interest for the kids to be with her, and economic resources.

As I stated, neither child wants to return, both have told their mother such, both are now trying to ignore her phone calls (I won't allow that to happen, but they try), and both have expressed a desire to talk to the judge about this. Neither has been verbally or physically abused. All needs are met daily, with more than enough food in the house, and not once has there been a utility turned off. The oldest, who's an adult now, has offered to testify to how things are in my house, versus her mother's residence.

In addition to the request for child support and decrease in visitation, is there anything else I need to do? I think I have all my bases covered, but feel that there may be something missing.

 

[Ohiogal]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? I live in PA, case is in Ohio

What county?

Roughly 18 months ago, I gained full custody of my three teenaged children. Since then, the oldest child has become a legal adult.

Their mother signed custody over to me during the custody hearing after I agreed to forgo child support. I lived in PA at the time, and still do. The case was in Ohio because that is where the kids lived then with their mother.

Okay.

On my side, I had the Guardian Ad Litem report, Children's Services report, Police Report, medical reports, plus many years of poor grades in school by the youngest two children. Once she realized that the judge was most likely going to rule in my favor, and after I agreed to no child support, she signed them over.

All those reports are HEARSAY. You would need the people who prepared the reports to testify about what they know.

Now, she's changed her mind and has filed for custody, even though both younger (17 and 14) don't want to return to live.

So what is the substantial change in circumstance in the life of the children that requires mom to have custody?

During the last 18 months, she has only exercised her weekend visitation twice, but did exercise Thanksgiving and Christmas visitation, as well as the every other week during the summer.

That doesn't help her.

I own my house without mortgage, she lives with her parents. I have provided the children with a learning environment, and both children have thrived at school, with highly improved grades, involvement in school based activities, etc. I demand that the children do their best...even if their best isn't THE best around...as long as they did their best, all is well. The lowest grade either have had at the end of the grading period was a C, when F's were the norm.

No help for her there.

Their mother has filed for custody, on the grounds that she can provide better financial aid for the children. I am on long term disability currently due to dizziness caused by an unknown reason. I am remarried, and have my wife to assist in raising the children.

That doesn't help her.

I have countered with a request for child support and a decrease in visitation, since she doesn't exercise it, other than holidays and summertime.

File a motion to dismiss her custody motion and proceed solely on your motions as there is no substantial change in circumstance.

My question...can the GAL report, as well as other reports I obtained during the last custody hearing be used this time around, even though they weren't actually used by the court last time?

Nope. Not just the reports. Subpoena all the individuals -- the police officers, Children Services workers and what not -- but how are they relevant?

I am not currently on any welfare programs, own my house without a mortgage, own my vehicles without loans, have no loans at all, and only have to pay my taxes and utilities, as well as food. My food situation is stellar, as I have three 2'X4' shelf units filled with food, as well as a 22 ci freezer filled with meats and vegetables. My house is a 3 bedroom, 2 bath home with yard in a decent school district that is listed as improving. Their mother lives in a city where the district has had poor ratings from the state. The graduation rate is higher in our district than it is in the district where their mother lives.

None of that matters really.

Her filing points include a claim of verbal abuse, lack of thriving in current situation, her belief of it being the best interest for the kids to be with her, and economic resources.

Okay. She needs to prove the verbal abuse. Economic resources don't matter.

As I stated, neither child wants to return, both have told their mother such, both are now trying to ignore her phone calls (I won't allow that to happen, but they try), and both have expressed a desire to talk to the judge about this. Neither has been verbally or physically abused. All needs are met daily, with more than enough food in the house, and not once has there been a utility turned off. The oldest, who's an adult now, has offered to testify to how things are in my house, versus her mother's residence.

In addition to the request for child support and decrease in visitation, is there anything else I need to do? I think I have all my bases covered, but feel that there may be something missing.

File a motion for the court to do an in camera interview with the two minor children.

 

[stealth2]

What change of circumstance is Mom claiming?

And... I think you meant a 22 cf freezer, not 22 ci. The latter wouldn't be too impressive. Not that it's relevant, anyway. Perfectly good parents don;t have overflowing pantries/freezers.

 

[stringplucker]

What county?

Montgomery...

All those reports are HEARSAY. You would need the people who prepared the reports to testify about what they know.

No problem there, the GAL was appointed by the court. The detective would be no problem, same with the Children's Services person

So what is the substantial change in circumstance in the life of the children that requires mom to have custody?

Gainful employment...she was days away from eviction where she lived during the custody case prior to this. She now has a job, in Indiana, and lives with her parents in the city.

File a motion to dismiss her custody motion and proceed solely on your motions as there is no substantial change in circumstance.

I can do that, no problem

Nope. Not just the reports. Subpoena all the individuals -- the police officers, Children Services workers and what not -- but how are they relevant?

It would go to fully show what the situation was like prior to my having custody. There's a pattern here. I've filed for custody twice prior, with GAL in my favor each time, recommending complete reversal of custody for the betterment of the children. I was shown just how hard it is for a father to gain custody in Ohio...it's nearly impossible unless there's drug, alcohol or physical abuse from the mother, at least from what I've seen. During the divorce, I was granted custody, but lost it when the judge ruled in her favor.

Okay. She needs to prove the verbal abuse. Economic resources don't matter.

There has been no verbal abuse. When the children are disciplined, it's verbally first, then grounding. My son was grounded for 2 months from his electronic things due to poor attitude and lack of effort in school (those were the schools words) Since then, he's regained the ability to play his video games and use his phone for texting.

File a motion for the court to do an in camera interview with the two minor children.

I forgot to mention, we have filed for that already.

I think I have an idea of what triggered her to file...My son and his girl friend of 9 months broke up after she cheated on him. I gave him a couple of days to mope around the house, then told him to man up and suck it up. They have since mended their relationship and are going out again. I think that during the 6 weeks the were apart, that he called his mother and may have cried over the phone to her. I know that he told his sister during that time, that he didn't like going to school because he was in classes with her most of the day...he had a major broken heart. He may have told his mother then that he wanted to go back. Like I said, he's back with his girlfriend and doesn't want to go back.

Their mother lived in a suburb of the city, and had a decent school when she had custody, even though the kids performed rather poorly, which can be proven with school records. She's since moved within the city limits, and in a different school district...and the kids want NO part of that district.

 

[Ohiogal]

I think I have an idea of what triggered her to file...My son and his girl friend of 9 months broke up after she cheated on him. I gave him a couple of days to mope around the house, then told him to man up and suck it up. They have since mended their relationship and are going out again. I think that during the 6 weeks the were apart, that he called his mother and may have cried over the phone to her. I know that he told his sister during that time, that he didn't like going to school because he was in classes with her most of the day...he had a major broken heart. He may have told his mother then that he wanted to go back. Like I said, he's back with his girlfriend and doesn't want to go back.

Their mother lived in a suburb of the city, and had a decent school when she had custody, even though the kids performed rather poorly, which can be proven with school records. She's since moved within the city limits, and in a different school district...and the kids want NO part of that district.

The kids don't get to choose. And don't expect the court to give mom less than standard visitation -- you are aware that using weekend visitation is difficult since you live about six hours away from one another if not more? Look at the long distance visitation if Montgomery county has one of those. The other thing is that it is NOT that difficult for a father to get custody in Ohio. Many of my male clients have ended up with custody. There is a presumption to shared parenting in Ohio.

 

[stringplucker]

What change of circumstance is Mom claiming?

And... I think you meant a 22 cf freezer, not 22 ci. The latter wouldn't be too impressive. Not that it's relevant, anyway. Perfectly good parents don;t have overflowing pantries/freezers.

Correct...22 cf. It's true about the amount of food in the house not being revelant. However, knowing that they were generally without food while she had custody, and that I gave the oldest a re-loadable bank card so she could feed herself and the younger two at that time, having food in the house is a big issue with the kids.

When my son first moved here with my wife and I, he was hoarding food in his room, hiding it in his dresser and his nightstand drawer. I broke down and wept when I saw it. It took us a few months to get him to understand that we'll always have food for him to eat, and that he doesn't need to hoard it.

 

[CJane]

Correct...22 cf. It's true about the amount of food in the house not being revelant. However, knowing that they were generally without food while she had custody, and that I gave the oldest a re-loadable bank card so she could feed herself and the younger two at that time, having food in the house is a big issue with the kids.

When my son first moved here with my wife and I, he was hoarding food in his room, hiding it in his dresser and his nightstand drawer. I broke down and wept when I saw it. It took us a few months to get him to understand that we'll always have food for him to eat, and that he doesn't need to hoard it.

Meh. There's rarely food in my house either. And I have three kids. I strongly dislike packaged food - be it frozen, canned, or pantry items. So, I go to the grocery store about every other day and buy fresh. I have a miniature refrigerator that holds not much more than a gallon of milk, some condiments, and a couple small containers of leftovers for lunches. Maybe yogurt if I've made some recently. I don't have a pantry, because the dried goods are so few they fit in a small cabinet in the kitchen. And, I don't own a microwave. So, if the kids are gonna eat, they're gonna have to actually cook. Real food.

That's not neglect.

 

[stringplucker]

The kids don't get to choose. And don't expect the court to give mom less than standard visitation -- you are aware that using weekend visitation is difficult since you live about six hours away from one another if not more? Look at the long distance visitation if Montgomery county has one of those.

Difficult, but not impossible. I exercised visitation often when she had custody. I was back there to spend the weekend with them at least once a month. Admittedly, it was easier for me, as I would stay at my parents during those visits. There were also extended weekends when Monday was a holiday observed that I would bring them back here for the weekend.

The other thing is that it is NOT that difficult for a father to get custody in Ohio. Many of my male clients have ended up with custody. There is a presumption to shared parenting in Ohio.

]Things may have changed since the initial divorce. At that time, even with a GAL in my favor, the judge ruled against me. Luckily, that judge retired.

 

[stringplucker]

Meh. There's rarely food in my house either. And I have three kids. I strongly dislike packaged food - be it frozen, canned, or pantry items. So, I go to the grocery store about every other day and buy fresh. I have a miniature refrigerator that holds not much more than a gallon of milk, some condiments, and a couple small containers of leftovers for lunches. Maybe yogurt if I've made some recently. I don't have a pantry, because the dried goods are so few they fit in a small cabinet in the kitchen. And, I don't own a microwave. So, if the kids are gonna eat, they're gonna have to actually cook. Real food.

That's not neglect.

The food that was in her house was outdated or rotten, according to the GAL report. The lady from Children's Services was prepared to testify to the same finding during her investigation.

Our food is real, and we are the ones that preserve what's in our pantry...dried, canned and preserved from our own garden. The meat in the freezer is about 80% venison...we hunt for most of our meat. Chicken comes from local farms, not the grocery. Fish...I'll buy that at the fish market. I don't trust the local river (Allegheny).

 

[single317dad]

The point at which having food in the house would be relevant would be at the division of "enough" and "not enough". Possessing a small cardboard box of canned food, bringing home a Happy Meal, or having a fleet of refrigerated trucks parked outside all would fall under the category of "enough".

It is unfortunate that the definition of "food" includes McDonald's, but I digress.

 

[stealth2]

I'm with Jane. I no longer have kids home (LOL well... I have elderly "kids"), but I have always tended to stop by the store on the way home form work. If I was working evenings, I'd stop earlier on. 'Cause I found our moods didn't always agree with what was pulled out. Easier to just shop by the day. And if the kids wanted something when I wasn't home? They always had enough money to walk up to the Wa to grab something. I DO have more food available now, 'cause otherwise my parents will not eat enough.

But, your pantry is still irrelevant.

 

[stringplucker]

In interesting update

We'll be in Ohio this upcoming weekend to visit my mom. The children's mother was interested in having the children for breakfast on Saturday. My daughter suggested that all of us go out as a large family (2 minor children, 1 adult child, their mother, me, and my wife), so she made this suggestion to her mom, and a big explosion happened. She told my daughter that since she doesn't get to see the kids, that I should let her have them for at least an hour (I'm NOT adverse to this at all...) because she hasn't visited them since Christmas. My daughter replied that it's not her fault...to which her mother replied that it was, because she wanted to live with me.

Now my daughter wants nothing to do with seeing her mother. My son is supporting his sister, which is how I've been raising them...to be supportive of each other. Both are now asking me to tell their mother that since it's my weekend, that I not make them go with her. Both have said that they don't want to be left alone with her, because they know she's going to trash talk them for their wanting to live here, and me for being their dad.

I have that legal leg to stand on, which is that it isn't her weekend, but I also have a moral obligation here...I've been in her shoes once when she had custody, and I remember the pain of being told no on time that wasn't given per Standard Order, and I don't want that same kind of pain inflicted on her (I have to do the right thing for the kids, and I also have to answer for my actions to God eventually, ya know?)

If I honor my teenaged children's request to NOT be made to go with her, how or to what effect will this be viewed if this progresses to court? I say IF this progresses, because she could agree to drop this before the first court date.

 

[stealth2]

We'll be in Ohio this upcoming weekend to visit my mom. The children's mother was interested in having the children for breakfast on Saturday. My daughter suggested that all of us go out as a large family (2 minor children, 1 adult child, their mother, me, and my wife), so she made this suggestion to her mom, and a big explosion happened. She told my daughter that since she doesn't get to see the kids, that I should let her have them for at least an hour (I'm NOT adverse to this at all...) because she hasn't visited them since Christmas. My daughter replied that it's not her fault...to which her mother replied that it was, because she wanted to live with me.

Now my daughter wants nothing to do with seeing her mother. My son is supporting his sister, which is how I've been raising them...to be supportive of each other. Both are now asking me to tell their mother that since it's my weekend, that I not make them go with her. Both have said that they don't want to be left alone with her, because they know she's going to trash talk them for their wanting to live here, and me for being their dad.

I have that legal leg to stand on, which is that it isn't her weekend, but I also have a moral obligation here...I've been in her shoes once when she had custody, and I remember the pain of being told no on time that wasn't given per Standard Order, and I don't want that same kind of pain inflicted on her (I have to do the right thing for the kids, and I also have to answer for my actions to God eventually, ya know?)

If I honor my teenaged children's request to NOT be made to go with her, how or to what effect will this be viewed if this progresses to court? I say IF this progresses, because she could agree to drop this before the first court date.

It's a tough call. Legally, you're in the clear. But... as a parent... I can only tell you what I would do. And that is tell them that they need to go and spend an hour or two over breakfast with their other parent. BUT... I would also let Mom know that you are using your discretion in allowing this, and that you have told the kids (all three of them) that if she begins smack-talking you/stepMom, that they are free to get up and leave. Since your oldest is an adult, s/he apparently will be able to transport them. But yes, I would tell my kids (who also have a difficult relationship with their other parent) that it was important to ME that they work on their relationship with their Mom. And to refuse to go would be disrespecting me.

 

[Zigner]

It's a tough call. Legally, you're in the clear. But... as a parent... I can only tell you what I would do. And that is tell them that they need to go and spend an hour or two over breakfast with their other parent. BUT... I would also let Mom know that you are using your discretion in allowing this, and that you have told the kids (all three of them) that if she begins smack-talking you/stepMom, that they are free to get up and leave. Since your oldest is an adult, s/he apparently will be able to transport them. But yes, I would tell my kids (who also have a difficult relationship with their other parent) that it was important to ME that they work on their relationship with their Mom. And to refuse to go would be disrespecting me.

I agree with the sentiment - but it is, in my opinion, not wise to put the kids even deeper in the middle of this. Once they are there, they are not free to disrespect their mother by getting up and leaving. Of course, the adult can get up and leave, but not the minor children.

Just my take on it.

 

[Ohiogal]

In Ohio, the custodial parent has a responsibility to facilitate the relationship between the non-custodial parent and the children. Do your part. Your children can survive an hour or two in a public place with their mother over breakfast.