Discrimination in Reverse??

[DL11]

What is the name of your state? OHIO

Repeatedly, when I call Corporate (Headquarters is located in PA) HR Dept. to get approval to demote, fire, or suspend employees who totally disregard all care for their job performance and corporate policies, I am first asked, "Are they black?" If the answer is yes, they then tell me, "You have to have a mound of write-ups/evidence before you can proceed with any action". I, on the other hand, being a white male (age 38 with 12 yrs experience) have been demoted twice now without ANY write-ups or counseling (I have never even received an employee evaluation or raise in 2 years of employment, even though the EE Handbook states everyone will receive one). My performance was consistantly recognized as Superior being I received continuous awards and recognition as one of the top 100 stores in the nation out of almost 1,000.

Since these two demotions I have been told (by superior sources who feel I've been wronged) that my demotions were for the reason of an anonymous suggestion my wife sent to corporate via their customer's website, and it was "traced" to our home and they "took it as 'malicious' and it ruined me". The VP's stated, "Make him go away". The content of the suggestion was merely expressing mine and co-workers views on a once a year event and not malicious or even mean in any form or manner. They demoted me within 1 week of the time frame that she sent the anonymous suggestion. There was no information given as to who she was, who I was, or even our location state.

Do I have a case for Reverse Discrimination, Invasion of Privacy, and/or Retaliation or anything else? My wages were decreased by $2,000 annually and loss of potential bonuses equaling up to $1,100 per month with the first demotion, this 2nd demotion they told me "we don't want to damage you". I believe they are trying to get me to quit. Another co-worker in the same position I held, who is African-American and a very close friend of mine, tells me he feels it's wrong as well and wants to testify on my behalf. He was just put on an action plan to correct issues of his performance, and given a specified time period to do so. They are definitely going after me, in many other ways than I care to go in to here...

Someone told me, "You have no rights, you're a white man under 40". Is this true?? I am sick and stressed out over all this and cannot find a way to explain to possible other employers why I am now entry level instead of my executive level previously held. PLEASE HELP?

 

[Beth3]

Do I have a case for Reverse Discrimination There's no such thing as "reverse discrimination."

Invasion of Privacy No. Your privacy wasn't invaded. They have every right to determine the source of any emails they receive.

and/or Retaliation or anything else? Demoting you because your wife sent an ill-advised email is not unlawful and does not constitute prohibited retaliation. (For future reference, it is always a poor idea for a spouse to become involved in his/her wife's/husband's employment situation. If you have an issue with something your employer is doing, YOU need to address it yourself and directly. No anonymous emails, letters, messages, etc.)

Now to your core issue. Discrimination based on race, any race, is prohibited. Doesn't matter if you're black, white, hispanic, asian, etc. I take it you are are in a supervisory role. As a member of management, you very likely are held to a higher standard than are your subordinates;that is not discrimination and it is not uncommon to disregard formal disciplinary policies when dealing with management.

I understand where your HR department is coming from (although I don't agree with how they explained it) and if you are asking for approval to discipline or terminate subordinates without the appropriate documentation of their misconduct so that the company can demonstrate their race, age, gender, religion, etc. had nothing to do with the decision should the employee file a discrimination charge, then you're not doing your job properly. (Sorry, I don't mean that to sound harsh or critical; that's just the fact of it.)

The truth is your wife made a very ill-advised move and you are paying the price. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with what management did as a consequence, but it wasn't illegal. Politically, it appears you're dead in this organization because senior management was quite angered by what she did. That has nothing to do with your job performance so I can understand why your African-American peer is being treated differently if he is actually having job performance issues.

I'm not suggesting the situation is fair but I don't see anything illegal about it. Race doesn't appear to be the issue here, rather it's that the email your wife sent incurred the animosity of senior management. It appears what you need to do is look for a new position where you can start fresh with another company.

Good luck.

 

[DL11]

Thanks for responding. Additional details/comments:

I understand where your HR department is coming from (although I don't agree with how they explained it) and if you are asking for approval to discipline or terminate subordinates without the appropriate documentation of their misconduct so that the company can demonstrate their race, age, gender, religion, etc. had nothing to do with the decision should the employee file a discrimination charge, then you're not doing your job properly. (Sorry, I don't mean that to sound harsh or critical; that's just the fact of it.) Of course the write-ups have NOTHING to do with race, sex, age, or any other issue. Simply issues like not performing their job, out right refusal or taking 5 hours to go pick up product and not even getting it then lying about why... Corporate is not just saying "you can't b/c they are in the protected category", they are proving they are discriminating against everyone who isn't of the protected category in more than just my situation. Many of us are wanting it fair across the board.

"Invasion of Privacy No. Your privacy wasn't invaded. They have every right to determine the source of any emails they receive." This was not an "email" it was a "comment" section of their corporate website and the disclaimer states that they will not use any personal information and comments anonymous are regarded highly as such and will not be used against you. We were told by a computer expert that since the Yahoo! email address given on the required information section was an account with no account info pertaining to us or our correct residence, they HAD to have used a hacker type method to trace exactly who it was and not just "cookies" info.


and/or Retaliation or anything else? Demoting you because your wife sent an ill-advised email is not unlawful and does not constitute prohibited retaliation. (For future reference, it is always a poor idea for a spouse to become involved in his/her wife's/husband's employment situation. If you have an issue with something your employer is doing, YOU need to address it yourself and directly. No anonymous emails, letters, messages, etc.) I could not state any suggestions or comments as an employee, and neither will any of my colleagues as we all KNOW and have SEEN the retaliation/intimidation that results from doing such. She did so for me and several co-workers expressed the same feeling.

Shed any different light on your response?

 

[Beth3]

Shed any different light on your response? Not really.

a) While I am not saying I agree with how your HR department is handling things (I'm not anywhere near enough to the situation to know), I do understand why they are particularly insistent upon having adequate documentation of job performance problems and misconduct when the employee in question is over 40, black, hispanic, etc. At the same time however, I am certainly not saying that all employees shouldn't be treated fairly and equitably regardless of their age, race, gender, and so on.

b) I can't comment on the IT issues involved; that's far outside of my area of expertise. I can tell you that sourcing the comment at the company's website does not constitute an unlawful invasion of privacy. Your wife has no standing in your employment relationship and it was ill-advised for her to make any critical comment about the employer's practices. If you have an issue with something your employer is doing, you need to address it.

c) This is still not unlawful retalation because you, your wife, or anybody else critizing the employer's lawful practices (even if they're lousy practices) is not a protected activity.

My advice remains the same. It may be completely unfair but your future career prospects where you are are dead. You need to seek new employment elswhere.

 

[longneck]

...they HAD to have used a hacker type method to trace exactly who it was and not just "cookies" info.

wrong!

have you ever checked your work e-mail from home? then they know your home computer's IP address. and when your wife submitted that "comment", it also recorded your computer's IP address. a simple log comparison is all that is needed to find out who's computer it came from.

plus a whole bunch of other ways they could have found out who it was from that involve no "hacking" of your computer.

 

[DL11]

what if they don't know we know?

The company, unless they are still spying on us illegally, does not know we are aware of the reason for the demotions and all that has happened. Does it make a different light on this case being the reason for their discriminatory action is not known?

White manager demoted suddenly, absolutely no negative history in his employment. African American managers given notice after notice and put on action plans giving time to correct issues. Sounds discriminatory to everyone, even my african american co-workers. They, as well as everyone employed, knows we work for lowlife who only care about their bottom dollar in their pockets and we are the 2nd from the lowest on the totem pole.

 

[DL11]

wrong!

have you ever checked your work e-mail from home? then they know your home computer's IP address. and when your wife submitted that "comment", it also recorded your computer's IP address. a simple log comparison is all that is needed to find out who's computer it came from.

plus a whole bunch of other ways they could have found out who it was from that involve no "hacking" of your computer.

I have 4 computers at my home.. mine, my wife's, my daughter's, and my son's. Two are online connected via Linksys and I have a firewall. Our IP addresses are set-up to be masked.

Conveniently, and I say that derogatorily against what we found to be quite strange, just 2 weeks following my demotion, my wife's hard drive (only 1 year old) crashed! One more week following that crash, MINE crashed. We had them both replaced within a week of their demise and have constantly been getting Trojan and Worm viruses, wife more than mine, despite higher security in place and careful opening of everything. We are not stupid, nor ignorant to the risks and take careful precautions. It is strange how this has all been occurring since January's email and never before in over 5 years of the same set-up of our home network.

 

[Beth3]

The company, unless they are still spying on us illegally, does not know we are aware of the reason for the demotions and all that has happened. Does it make a different light on this case being the reason for their discriminatory action is not known? No.

White manager demoted suddenly, absolutely no negative history in his employment. African American managers given notice after notice and put on action plans giving time to correct issues. Sounds discriminatory to everyone, even my african american co-workers. They, as well as everyone employed, knows we work for lowlife who only care about their bottom dollar in their pockets and we are the 2nd from the lowest on the totem pole. The situation here is that the issues are different, not the races. Your wife took it upon herself to post comments at the company's website to which your employer took umbrage. Politically, that was a very poor move on your wife's part. Members of management and/or their spouses do NOT post critical comments about the employer at the empoyer's website. If you had job performance problems similar to those of your African-American counterpart and were demoted while he was given a performance improvement plan, I would agree your employer's actions are discriminatory. Unfortunately, your wife pissed-off senior management and that is what you are now dealing with. That is the difference.

Okay, I'm done now. I don't know how many different times I can explain this. Again, I'm not agreeing with how your management handled things; just explaining the legal issues involved.

 

[DL11]

Thank you Beth & others. I spoke with an attorney yesterday afternoon and he told me the method they discovered who sent the email was most likely illegal and that was a means to at least obtain a letter of recommendation for future employment elsewhere. Yet he stated, "White men under 40 have no legal rights". I found that harsh and if is the case, the EEOC opens themselves up for even further problems.

I'll leave this forum alone. Will consult with 2nd attorney for 3rd opinion.

 

[cbg]

It is, however, not true that white men under 40 have no legal rights.

 

[DL11]

That was MY opinion and found the gentleman (attorney) to be quite wrong somehow.

I am not "supposed" to know of the real reasons why I have been treated the way I have and I may just approach it as such from here forward.

 

[Beth3]

I am not "supposed" to know of the real reasons why I have been treated the way I have and I may just approach it as such from here forward. Your employer has no legal obligation to inform you why you were demoted. I'm not sure what you're getting at here. If they want to hide the fact that the issue is your wife's comments, they can.

 

[DL11]

QUOTED FROM ANOTHER POST - My question is if I quit my job is this considered Constructive Termination and then could I go after him civily. Constructive discharge (which is making someone's work environment so intolerable that a reasonable person would have no other option but to quit) may make you eligible for unemployment benefits but it does not result in a cause of action in and of itself.

..... which would give rise to a criminal complaint and possible civil suit, then I don't see any legal action for you to pursue.

Is there ANY legal cause for Constructive Disharge or any other recourse in MY case as was asked in this other post??? They are harrassing and belittling, discriminating, not following their own company handbook AT ALL and all the way around.

 

[Some Random Guy]

"I spoke with an attorney yesterday afternoon and he told me the method they discovered who sent the email was most likely illegal"

Your lawyers knows nothing about the Internet. Rely on him for legal issues - not computer savvy. E-mails contain IP addresses of who sent the e-mail and all mail servers that it passed to.

Also, depending on how the message was sent (like submitting a form on a web page), they will have the IP address of your router, which they can compare to previous messages sent by you.

Reading and comparing this info is definitely not illegal. It is information that you have sent to them and is therefore not protected.

 

[Beth3]

Is there ANY legal cause for Constructive Disharge or any other recourse in MY case as was asked in this other post??? Constructive discharge is only legally relevant if there is some underlying violation of the law.

For example, if a boss makes someone's working conditions intolerable because the employee is African American and the employee subsequently resigns, that is prohibited discrimination and it is considered a constructive discharge. However if I elect to treat my assistant horribly just 'cause I'm a nasty person and she elects to quit, that is not any form of prohibited discrimination and the fact that it may have been a constructive discharge is therefore irrelevant.

Making somone's work environment horrible is not, in and of itself, unlawful.