Documenting 'normal' visits

[Idori]

What is the name of your state? Washington

What does it mean to document visits? How do I keep track of how much time we spend with a family member and what happens on those visits? Would just keeping a notebook and writing down what we say and do be considered good documentation? I expressed my fears of my mom-in-law possibly trying to sue us (my husband and I) for visits to our kids. I said this to an aquaintance who worked in the court system and she said I should document the things that disturbed me for my own peace of mind even if I never need to use them.

I hope my stress over all this turns out to have been for nothing and it never reaches the stage where anything happens legally. Not even some kind of mediation, but I know that my state has a law about grandparents rights to visit their grandkids. I fear how far she might go to disturb our lives if she lives near us again and we stop having contact with her completely.

What is the state of this law? Does it apply to grandparents who are not care-givers to the children?What is the name of your state?

 

[CJane]

On December 24, 1998, the Washington State Supreme Court found that RCW 26.09.240 (Grandparent visitation) and RCW 26.10.160(3) (Third Party Visitation) were unconstitutional in the following consolidated case, In re Custody of Sara Skyanne Smith, Docket No. 65605-3.

http://www.divorcenet.com/states/washington/wa_art06

 

[FITFatherof2]

Im in the Puget Sound region. I just went through grandparents trying to gain visitation through the courts. The grandparents were not successful, and the court stated they had no rights to the children.

There is nothing to stress about until you are served papers. To answer your question about keeping records. Just keeping a journal of visits will be fine. Dont backdown to the grandparents.

 

[Idori]

Thanks

Thank you both CJAne and FITFatherof2 for answering my questions.

And thanks also for the reminder to stand my ground. She can't bully or manipulate us if we don't let her. We let our guard down several months after she moved out of the country and started accepting her calls again. That was a mistake. Now she's moving back. I hope not too close.

She is so normal sometimes. But those other times...wow. I sometimes get the impression that, in her mind, she is still involved in the ugly custody battle (and years of power plays) my husband and his siblings suffered through..only now he and I have been cast in the role of her ex (and she thinks our kids are hers), scary.

I really appreciate knowing that legally she can't just use the court to gain access to them when my husband and I say 'no'.

Thanks for the information. Best wishes to you both.

 

[CJane]

Also, it is virtually impossible in ANY state for a grandparent to receive court ordered visitation when the parents are married.

 

[LdiJ]

Also, it is virtually impossible in ANY state for a grandparent to receive court ordered visitation when the parents are married.

There are a couple of states where it is possible (not probable but possible)...NY and PA come to mind, but its definitely NOT possible in WA or in most of the rest of the country.

In fact, as you already pointed out, the WA Supreme Court once AGAIN has struck down their gpv statute....this is round two for WA.

 

[Idori]

Wish

It's good to know that it is very unlikely she could interfere legally, thanks LdiJ and thanks again CJane.

I wish there were a law against the stress she has caused us in the past. Is there a law against meddlling in a marriage? Ours isn't the first to receive her special attention and the others did not survive her 'help'.

I suppose I should consider us fortunate to have recognized how destructive that initial lack of boundaries was and to start correcting our our habits with her as soon as possible. One of the simplest and most effective things we learned to do is to never agree to anything with her before we talk to each other. We made the same mistakes as the other couples at first but when she would pull something they would blame each other.

She is so sweet and convincing, it took months before I realized the weirdness wasn't my imagination. Within a few minutes she said one thing to my husband and the opposite to me and when he and I started to disagree she laughed and laughed. I never let her do that to us again. Divide and conquer seems to be her thing but she is rarely that obvious about it.

Are in-law troubles usually a big factor in divorce and custody battles?

Seriously, is there any kind of law against meddling in a marriage? I remember years ago reading about someone trying to sue a spouses ex mistress for disrupting their marriage after the affair ended. Not the same thing but still interference.

 

[LdiJ]

It's good to know that it is very unlikely she could interfere legally, thanks LdiJ and thanks again CJane.

I wish there were a law against the stress she has caused us in the past. Is there a law against meddlling in a marriage? Ours isn't the first to receive her special attention and the others did not survive her 'help'.

I suppose I should consider us fortunate to have recognized how destructive that initial lack of boundaries was and to start correcting our our habits with her as soon as possible. One of the simplest and most effective things we learned to do is to never agree to anything with her before we talk to each other. We made the same mistakes as the other couples at first but when she would pull something they would blame each other.

She is so sweet and convincing, it took months before I realized the weirdness wasn't my imagination. Within a few minutes she said one thing to my husband and the opposite to me and when he and I started to disagree she laughed and laughed. I never let her do that to us again. Divide and conquer seems to be her thing but she is rarely that obvious about it.

Are in-law troubles usually a big factor in divorce and custody battles?

Seriously, is there any kind of law against meddling in a marriage? I remember years ago reading about someone trying to sue a spouses ex mistress for disrupting their marriage after the affair ended. Not the same thing but still interference.

No, there are no laws against meddling in a marriage, and yes, inlaw troubles are frequently a big factor in divorce and custody battles.

 

[WA_DAD]

Wa Gpv

What is the name of your state? Washington

What does it mean to document visits? How do I keep track of how much time we spend with a family member and what happens on those visits? Would just keeping a notebook and writing down what we say and do be considered good documentation? I expressed my fears of my mom-in-law possibly trying to sue us (my husband and I) for visits to our kids. I said this to an aquaintance who worked in the court system and she said I should document the things that disturbed me for my own peace of mind even if I never need to use them.

I hope my stress over all this turns out to have been for nothing and it never reaches the stage where anything happens legally. Not even some kind of mediation, but I know that my state has a law about grandparents rights to visit their grandkids. I fear how far she might go to disturb our lives if she lives near us again and we stop having contact with her completely.

What is the state of this law? Does it apply to grandparents who are not care-givers to the children?What is the name of your state?

There is no such thing as WA State GPV, 26.09.240 was repealed, and found to be unconstitutional on it's face, and there is the little thing called Troxev V Granville also found to be Unconstitutional as Applied (WA State) . There is NO GPV in WA state at all.

WA _DAD

 

[Idori]

Thanks and advice to others with family issues

Thanks WA_Dad,

For those people who stumble into this topic looking for help I hope they find the news of this being repealed to be very encouraging.

I'd like to recommend to anyone with relative problems that they try a search or two on the topic of 'boundaries', 'coping' and for those really hard cases, 'toxic inlaws'. (There are all kinds of free counseling available too, if your willing. You may need to try out several until you find a good fit but its worth the effort to build a healthier family for your kids.)

I got a several books on boundaries when I was trying to deal with these issues the first time and shared them with the relatives. My own mom included. It gave us a way to talk about some issues I didn't even have words for before. Before the book any mention of wanting privacy met with with the very invasive,"but I would never want to keep anything from you." Totally inappropriate unless I wanted to be as married to my mom as I am to my husband. After the book she started to get the concept of separation from her kids as a healthy thing and has been much easier to know than before.

My mom-in-law wasn't interested-"To busy to read." "Would not enjoy it." When problems have come up her approach is that if we do or give whatever she wants right when she wants it then everything will be fine. She takes a direct 'no' as a green flag to press harder for whatever she is after. And she wonders why she has a hard time with people after the initial 'happy' period.

The boundary concepts really do help with anyone who values the relationship enough to consider them. Ultimately, I can't do anything about anyone elses but I can stay willing to work on my own.

Idori

"The law can't protect me from a snake bite. I need to have enough sense to not jump into a pit of vipers."