Does NY SUNY Cap Clause Override Parties' Clause?

[tuffbrk]

How does your ex's petition to the court read? Is she looking for reimbursement of full tuition of Penn State? Is she looking for a fixed cost based on SUNY?

She is requesting the tuition only after the college choice was made and the education was attained. So, in effect, she is filing after the fact. Presumably, you filed to end child support? Or she may have filed this petition in anticipation of you filing to terminate child support?

Regardless, your attorney will push on this issue and present your "side" of the story that you understood the wording to mean that the child would go to Syracuse as long as you were employed and that the tuition credit was available. As your child chose not to go to Syracuse or any state university in NY it was your understanding that you had no financial responsibility. If your ex wife had interpreted the order differently, she would have filed in child's freshman year. She did not. That paints quite the picture -especially if CS continued to be paid during college.

Please let us know how this goes. I'm crossing my fingers that it is going to be in your favor.

 

[mistoffolees]

How does your ex's petition to the court read? Is she looking for reimbursement of full tuition of Penn State? Is she looking for a fixed cost based on SUNY?

She is requesting the tuition only after the college choice was made and the education was attained. So, in effect, she is filing after the fact. Presumably, you filed to end child support? Or she may have filed this petition in anticipation of you filing to terminate child support?

Regardless, your attorney will push on this issue and present your "side" of the story that you understood the wording to mean that the child would go to Syracuse as long as you were employed and that the tuition credit was available. As your child chose not to go to Syracuse or any state university in NY it was your understanding that you had no financial responsibility. If your ex wife had interpreted the order differently, she would have filed in child's freshman year. She did not. That paints quite the picture -especially if CS continued to be paid during college.

Please let us know how this goes. I'm crossing my fingers that it is going to be in your favor.

I agree. OP needs to see an attorney. The order is very badly worded - and I suspect that local practice needs to be considered, as well.

However, I want to comment on the bolded. In my earlier statement that I thought OP owed the pro-rated share of $5 K per year, I am assuming that:
- the child could have lived at home
and/or
- OP continued to pay CS during the child's college.
I would argue that paying CS while the child is in college should take care of the room and board obligation. If, OTOH, ex is going to argue that OP should have paid a proportion of room and board, then child support is double-dipping.

Again, it undoubtedly depends on the specific judge.

 

[tuffbrk]

I would also presume that CS was paid.
I'm clueless with Geography. I had no idea someone in NY could attend Penn State and still live at home. Guessing it's close to the border.

My former stepson went to Syracuse. It cost $25k a year for out of state students back then (about 15 yrs ago). Junior or Senior year he did the semester in London, was living at the frat house - which was cheaper than the dorms - it was running about $30k a year.

To think that someone could have gone for free and chose instead to go to a school that required tuition to be paid in full. If I were the judge, I would say - "oh well, guess sonny boy/girly girl can pay their own college expenses since what came free wasn't good enough."

Sheesh - I have a HS senior who would give his front teeth to go to Syracuse!!

 

[seekinghelpny]

Tuffbrk hit the nail on the head. My ex-wife owes me a $3,500 money judgement for the past 4 years that is payable to CSEB. CSEB can only enforce it through a wage garnishment. It is earning interest. CSEB says they are unable to locate her employer. I filed petition to have court use the money judgement as a child support offset. I have been paying child support the entire time my child was at Penn State. My ex-wife has countered with the claim that I owe for Penn State. It is true that she has been silent on the issue of college expenses for the entire time my son was in school. I honestly beleived my only obligation was Syracuse.

 

[You Are Guilty]

This is a basic contract interpretation issue which could have been avoided during drafting. Personally, I agree the intent is what the OP proposes, but there is certainly an argument to be made that the ex's interpretation has some merit. However, given the additional facts as provided by the OP, there does seem to be some evidence of an attempt to get some 'leverage' here due to the outstanding judgment. I wouldn't be surprised if a settlement offer of "you drop yours and I'll drop mine" follows shortly.


Incidentally, I just noticed a typo in my earlier post - its Education Law s. 352, not 252:

(3). The state university shall consist of the four university centers
at Albany, Binghamton, Buffalo and Stony Brook, the designated colleges
of arts and sciences at Brockport, Buffalo, Cortland, Fredonia, Geneseo,
New Paltz, Old Westbury, Oneonta, Oswego, Plattsburgh, Potsdam and
Purchase, empire state college, the agricultural and technical colleges
at Alfred, Canton, Cobleskill, Delhi, Farmingdale and Morrisville,
downstate medical center, upstate medical center, the college of
optometry, the college of environmental science and forestry, maritime
college, the college of technology at Utica/Rome, the statutory or
contract colleges at Cornell university and Alfred university, and such
additional universities, colleges and other institutions, facilities and
research centers as have been or hereafter may be acquired, established,
operated or contracted to be operated for the state by the state
university trustees.

 

[mistoffolees]

I would also presume that CS was paid.
I'm clueless with Geography. I had no idea someone in NY could attend Penn State and still live at home. Guessing it's close to the border.

Depends. Penn State has branch campuses all over the state, so it would be possible to attend some of the branch campuses even if you lived in NY. But most of those are 2 year campuses. Since OP got a 4 year degree, he was probably at main campus - which is a good 2 hours from the nearest location in New York. It is unlikely that he commuted.

My former stepson went to Syracuse. It cost $25k a year for out of state students back then (about 15 yrs ago). Junior or Senior year he did the semester in London, was living at the frat house - which was cheaper than the dorms - it was running about $30k a year.

Yes, SU was expensive. Unfortunately, I had to pay out of state tuition at one of the SUNY schools which was well over $35 K a few years ago.

To think that someone could have gone for free and chose instead to go to a school that required tuition to be paid in full. If I were the judge, I would say - "oh well, guess sonny boy/girly girl can pay their own college expenses since what came free wasn't good enough."

Sheesh - I have a HS senior who would give his front teeth to go to Syracuse!!

That's why it's going to depend on the judge. If Mom and Dad had brought it before the court before the kid started college, that would not have been unreasonable (assuming that the kid could have gotten into Syracuse - which isn't easy). After the fact? It's really anyone's call. The strict reading of the order says that Dad should pay, but there are plenty of reasons why he might not have to when it gets in front of a judge.

This is a basic contract interpretation issue which could have been avoided during drafting. Personally, I agree the intent is what the OP proposes, but there is certainly an argument to be made that the ex's interpretation has some merit. However, given the additional facts as provided by the OP, there does seem to be some evidence of an attempt to get some 'leverage' here due to the outstanding judgment. I wouldn't be surprised if a settlement offer of "you drop yours and I'll drop mine" follows shortly.


Incidentally, I just noticed a typo in my earlier post - its Education Law s. 352, not 252:

(3). The state university shall consist of the four university centers
at Albany, Binghamton, Buffalo and Stony Brook, the designated colleges
of arts and sciences at Brockport, Buffalo, Cortland, Fredonia, Geneseo,
New Paltz, Old Westbury, Oneonta, Oswego, Plattsburgh, Potsdam and
Purchase, empire state college, the agricultural and technical colleges
at Alfred, Canton, Cobleskill, Delhi, Farmingdale and Morrisville,
downstate medical center, upstate medical center, the college of
optometry, the college of environmental science and forestry, maritime
college, the college of technology at Utica/Rome, the statutory or
contract colleges at Cornell university and Alfred university, and such
additional universities, colleges and other institutions, facilities and
research centers as have been or hereafter may be acquired, established,
operated or contracted to be operated for the state by the state
university trustees.

Note that your own reference states that the contract colleges at Cornell and Alfred are part of the SUNY system.

 

[seekinghelpny]

Does anyone want to take a stab at what the intent of the "in lieu of" means in this clause? I know I am the OP but the clause presents only two options, SUNY and Syracuse, and it says "in lieu of" after Syracuse. It's not the best written clause but we were in Court in October 2007 in front of a judge when I tried to enforce my vistation and my ex-wife did not bring up issue of college expenses. She had an attorney at the time. My son had already started Penn State.

 

[You Are Guilty]

Does anyone want to take a stab at what the intent of the "in lieu of" means in this clause? I know I am the OP but the clause presents only two options, SUNY and Syracuse, and it says "in lieu of" after Syracuse. It's not the best written clause but we were in Court in October 2007 in front of a judge when I tried to enforce my vistation and my ex-wife did not bring up issue of college expenses. She had an attorney at the time. My son had already started Penn State.

No way to guess. You'll argue the intent was one or the other, without regard to any other schools, and she'll argue that it was meant to encompass the cost of one or the other, even at other schools. Perhaps if you could get a few minutes in with your attorney who helped draft it, he/she could give you some insight as to how local custom may come into play.

Note that your own reference states that the contract colleges at Cornell and Alfred are part of the SUNY system.

But wait, there's even another statute:

§357. Statutory or contract colleges. Statutory or contract colleges
shall continue to be operated pursuant to the provisions of this chapter
but such colleges shall be subject to the general supervision of the
state university trustees.

End effect is they are affiliated for purposes of SUNY enrollment, but not bound by all the same rules as "official" SUNYs. Out of curiosity, how much is Cornell tuition for the non-contract schools? (I suspect significantly higher).

 

[mistoffolees]

Out of curiosity, how much is Cornell tuition for the non-contract schools? (I suspect significantly higher).

$41 K. The figure I gave for SUNY tuition at Cornell is apparently outdated. The current amount is $25 K.
Cornell University: Tuition Rates and Fees

Does anyone want to take a stab at what the intent of the "in lieu of" means in this clause? I know I am the OP but the clause presents only two options, SUNY and Syracuse, and it says "in lieu of" after Syracuse. It's not the best written clause but we were in Court in October 2007 in front of a judge when I tried to enforce my vistation and my ex-wife did not bring up issue of college expenses. She had an attorney at the time. My son had already started Penn State.

Do you really expect the answer to change if you ask it 100 more times?

'in lieu of' means exactly what it says. You have to pay the proportional share of SUNY tuition or you could provide a SUNY eduction instead of SUNY. But the decree doesn't define the terms well enough to tell you what you're asking. You've been given the answer several times. Go see an attorney.

 

[seekinghelpny]

Do you really expect the answer to change if you ask it 100 more times?

'in lieu of' means exactly what it says. You have to pay the proportional share of SUNY tuition or you could provide a SUNY eduction instead of SUNY. But the decree doesn't define the terms well enough to tell you what you're asking. You've been given the answer several times. Go see an attorney.

Mistoffolees - thank you for your reply. You actually made my point. Your phrasing would make no sense with local law "You have to pay the proportional share of SUNY tuition or you could provide a SUNY eduction instead of SUNY." It actually means "You have to pay the proportional share of SUNY tuition or you could provide a Syracuse education instead of SUNY."

I greatly appreciate everyones input. There are other mitigating circumstances here which are beyond the scope of this forum and I agree that a judge needs to sort this out.

 

[seekinghelpny]

My ex-wife served me with papers seeking $150,000 in college arrears. My first son went to SUNY college in 2005 for one year. At that time I told him and his mother that my obligation was only Syracuse. Two years later my second son started Penn State. Again, I reminded my ex-wife and my son that my obligation was only Syracuse. From 2005 through 2007 we were in court on other matters. We each had attorneys. We talked about college expenses but in a different context. My ex-wife owed me money and wanted to offset it by assuming all college expenses. I responded that I beleived I didn't have any college costs as long as I remained employed at Syracuse so I wanted my money. The issue was dropped. My point is that my ex-wife didn't challenge my interpretation of the college clause until after 7 years and $150,000. I'm using the court's library to do some research. I came across
NY CLS Family Ct Act § 449 (2011). In NYS even if your divorce agreement was silent on the issue of college expenses the court can still order you to pay college expenses. Act 449 says that they can only be retroactive to the date of the petition so I'm wondering since this is my ex-wife's first petition seeking college expenses would none of you expenses be allowed by Act 449?

§ 449. Effective date of order of support

In mother's proceeding to modify father's child support obligation to include college education expenses for child, Family Court erred in including those expenses that had been paid by mother prior to filing of her petition. Haessly v Haessly (1994, 3d Dept) 203 App Div 2d 700, 611 NYS2d 928.

Based on his daughter's academic ability, evidenced by the fact that she started taking college courses at age 15, and the father's ability to pay, a modification in child support to award college expenses was appropriate under N.Y. Fam. Ct. Act § 413(1)(c)(7) and N.Y. Dom. Rel. Law § 240(1-b)(c)(7) although not provided for in a separation agreement; however, the father could not be required to pay college expenses paid before the mother filed the modification petitions under N.Y. Fam. Ct. Act § 449(2). Matter of Naylor v Galster (2008, 3d Dept) 48 App Div 3d 951, 851 NYS2d 683.