Does teen's desire for social life matter?

[commentator]

Tennessee

Just an opinion question for my learned associates.

Two children, 15 and 13. Custody is with father, with visitation during summer and 3 weekends a month for mother. The parents live about 40 miles apart, kids attend school with father, he transports them to mom 3 weekends a month. This arrangement has been this way for almost 10 years now.

The oldest child is now 15. He is in 9th grade, plays sports, and has lately been really unenthused about spending three weekends each month in a small apartment at his Mothers, as he says, babysitting for his younger siblings while she goes out, shops, does whatever.

Some of his sports activities which used to be Thursday and Friday evenings are beginning to be on weekends. Sometimes he has church group activities and school activities on weekends that he'd like to attend. He misses most of these. So far his mother has been very uncooperative, picking the weekends he is allowed to stay at father's according to her schedule, not accomodating his wants at all, even if he asks far in advance to attend these games, practices or social activities.

She pays no child support, has two younger children with another husband. He is a very responsible young man, makes good grades, is no trouble, I'm sure he is a good babysitter and loves his small siblings. But he wants to be a little more like a normal teen. In other words, he wants to do things with his friends, be an athlete, have a girlfriend.

The father and she are on reasonably good terms most of the time, but neither father or son can get her to accept that the teen doesn't want to come to Mom's house every weekend, he'd rather play on the school basketball team, do the club car wash or go on a hayride.

She threatens that if he refuses to cooperate or if his father lets him stay home, she will take them back to court. If this were to happen, would the court consider the teen's desire to participate in this type activity be seen as reasonable? Would a judge be likely to ask the parent to accomodate it a bit, or simply order him to comply with the visiting orders now in place?

 

[mistoffolees]

Who are you? If you're the stepmother or Dad's GF, stay out of it. Your interference could make things worse for Dad. Have him sign up for his own account.

As for the rest, court orders are ORDERS, not recommendations. They both have to follow whatever the order says.

Under some circumstances, orders can be changed, but it typically requires a change of circumstances - and the kid not wanting to baby-sit isn't a change of circumstances. And even if there were a change of circumstances sufficient to reopen the case, the kid's wishes to go on a hayride or play basketball on weekends isn't going to be very convincing.

 

[Zigner]

Who are you?

She is Commentator - a well respected senior member of the forum

 

[TheGeekess]

Tennessee

Just an opinion question for my learned associates.

Two children, 15 and 13. Custody is with father, with visitation during summer and 3 weekends a month for mother. The parents live about 40 miles apart, kids attend school with father, he transports them to mom 3 weekends a month. This arrangement has been this way for almost 10 years now.

The oldest child is now 15. He is in 9th grade, plays sports, and has lately been really unenthused about spending three weekends each month in a small apartment at his Mothers, as he says, babysitting for his younger siblings while she goes out, shops, does whatever.

Some of his sports activities which used to be Thursday and Friday evenings are beginning to be on weekends. Sometimes he has church group activities and school activities on weekends that he'd like to attend. He misses most of these. So far his mother has been very uncooperative, picking the weekends he is allowed to stay at father's according to her schedule, not accomodating his wants at all, even if he asks far in advance to attend these games, practices or social activities.

She pays no child support, has two younger children with another husband. He is a very responsible young man, makes good grades, is no trouble, I'm sure he is a good babysitter and loves his small siblings. But he wants to be a little more like a normal teen. In other words, he wants to do things with his friends, be an athlete, have a girlfriend.

The father and she are on reasonably good terms most of the time, but neither father or son can get her to accept that the teen doesn't want to come to Mom's house every weekend, he'd rather play on the school basketball team, do the club car wash or go on a hayride.

She threatens that if he refuses to cooperate or if his father lets him stay home, she will take them back to court. If this were to happen, would the court consider the teen's desire to participate in this type activity be seen as reasonable? Would a judge be likely to ask the parent to accomodate it a bit, or simply order him to comply with the visiting orders now in place?

I think that would be up to the local court climate as to whether that would be possible or not.

In my court orders, I have a clause that states The Teen will participate in her extracurricular activities, no matter whose time it is. (The only one she's involved in is Band.)

 

[mistoffolees]

She is Commentator - a well respected senior member of the forum

Didn't check the name. The post just sounded like a meddling step-mom.

Sorry, Commentator. Still the advice remains the same - the person involved should post the question himself (or herself).

 

[CJane]

I think that would be up to the local court climate as to whether that would be possible or not.

In my court orders, I have a clause that states The Teen will participate in her extracurricular activities, no matter whose time it is. (The only one she's involved in is Band.)

I think it's getting easier and easier to get these types of things modified in, especially if the distance between parents isn't great, or the kiddo has been involved in these things over the long term and all that's happened is a a schedule change.

I DON'T, however, see the "I don't to sit around Mom's skeezy apartment and watch the snot-noses all day Saturday because I want to have a girlfriend!!!!" thing working though.

 

[SESmama]

I think it also depends on how MUCH of the NCP's time it takes. I have that clause in my PP but I try my absolute best to keep it off little dude's time with dad. Scouts is tough but others, like swim/guitar/scout regular meetings, I can do during the week with me. Little Dude deserves his time with dad.

 

[commentator]

Thanks all, not a meddlin' stepmom here ( I KNOW the answer to that one!) but just a meddling auntee. We'd love for this visitation/custody thing to work smoothly, as it has for many years now, but it's becoming a problem.

Mom doesn't seem to want to accept that her baby is now a teenager, thinks denial and keeping things THE SAME AS ALWAYS will work 'till he's 18 at least. We'll keep trying to persuade her to make some accomodations, keep trying to provide rides for him so he can make his required custody appearances and do the social things. But I can't help wondering if she'd get a lot of support if she hold out to take it back to court and insists on his showing up every time, no exceptions, 'cause I'm your mother, that's why!

 

[cheesecake46580]

I have this same issue with my teen and we meet half way at each end of the activity that works for us! IMO teens need these activities and if they can't do a few of the normal teen things you are going to have a problem in the future.

 

[mistoffolees]

Thanks all, not a meddlin' stepmom here ( I KNOW the answer to that one!) but just a meddling auntee. We'd love for this visitation/custody thing to work smoothly, as it has for many years now, but it's becoming a problem.

Mom doesn't seem to want to accept that her baby is now a teenager, thinks denial and keeping things THE SAME AS ALWAYS will work 'till he's 18 at least. We'll keep trying to persuade her to make some accomodations, keep trying to provide rides for him so he can make his required custody appearances and do the social things. But I can't help wondering if she'd get a lot of support if she hold out to take it back to court and insists on his showing up every time, no exceptions, 'cause I'm your mother, that's why!

I have this same issue with my teen and we meet half way at each end of the activity that works for us! IMO teens need these activities and if they can't do a few of the normal teen things you are going to have a problem in the future.

I agree that kids should have activities. But I AM NOT MOM. Neither are either of you.

Mom is absolutely, totally, fully, 100% entitled to use her visitation however she wishes. And no one - not Dad, not step-mom, not Auntie, not anyone - should be interfering with Mom's right to use her visitation time. It should not even be presented to the kid as an option.

 

[cheesecake46580]

I am a mom and yes I do agree with you on that point......I am just saying it's not fair to the child it was not the child's choice for the parents no to be together so the parents need to grow up and let the kid be a kid as much as they can is all I am saying. I would think Mom would want to go cheer her child on @ a basket ball game is all.

 

[LdiJ]

I agree that kids should have activities. But I AM NOT MOM. Neither are either of you.

Mom is absolutely, totally, fully, 100% entitled to use her visitation however she wishes. And no one - not Dad, not step-mom, not Auntie, not anyone - should be interfering with Mom's right to use her visitation time. It should not even be presented to the kid as an option.

I agree with you Misto...but the problem is that it can honestly destroy mom's relationship with the teen, and therefore mom's future adult relationship with her child.

If I was mom's mother...I would be counseling her to let the child off the hook at least one of her weekends a month, just so that the child could do SOME of the things the child wants to do...and I would be counseling her to offer to let the teen bring a friend along now and then, and to find another babysitter for the younger children.

She is at the point now where she really does put her future adult relationship with the child at risk, and there are creative ways to resolve that without letting the child completely stop weekend visitation.

 

[mistoffolees]

I agree with you Misto...but the problem is that it can honestly destroy mom's relationship with the teen, and therefore mom's future adult relationship with her child.

If I was mom's mother...I would be counseling her to let the child off the hook at least one of her weekends a month, just so that the child could do SOME of the things the child wants to do...and I would be counseling her to offer to let the teen bring a friend along now and then, and to find another babysitter for the younger children.

She is at the point now where she really does put her future adult relationship with the child at risk, and there are creative ways to resolve that without letting the child completely stop weekend visitation.

I agree that Mom might be hurting her future relationship with the child. But that's entirely per prerogative. No one gets to tell her how to spend her parenting time - even if they think she's hurting her relationship with the child.

 

[neopandora]

I think it's getting easier and easier to get these types of things modified in, especially if the distance between parents isn't great, or the kiddo has been involved in these things over the long term and all that's happened is a a schedule change.

I DON'T, however, see the "I don't to sit around Mom's skeezy apartment and watch the snot-noses all day Saturday because I want to have a girlfriend!!!!" thing working though.

I completely agree. Interestingly, I am in OP's state and one of the end of the year functions I do for my attorney is print out the verdicts and outcomes of cases that closed that year to look for trends in rulings, etc. Two trends emerged strongly this year and this was one of them.

One trend we saw was generally high school students (sometimes included a few mature younger teens) were given much more discretion when it came to visitation and on matters such as this. It was usually when both parents were in the same community and for school extracurriculars, social events and part time jobs, etc. If it had to do with dating, forget it.

Also, generally the parenting plan was either changed for the high school child to have 1 overnight every other weekend and a few hours to include dinner in the off week on a weeknight, or that the teenager would still exercise every other weekend visitation but was allowed to drive to the sanctioned activities or job during the visitation and be with the NCP the other portions of the weekend.

This has been a trend with EVERY Judge in my areas, including the Judge that has previously made it known that any attorney that put anyone under the age of 18 on the stand in family court just earned a very big black mark on their side of the case.

Also, if anything is filed in Court, the parties will have to go through mediation prior to trial so here will be an additional opportunity for the parents to negotiate a visitation plan best for them and the teens.

 

[LdiJ]

I completely agree. Interestingly, I am in OP's state and one of the end of the year functions I do for my attorney is print out the verdicts and outcomes of cases that closed that year to look for trends in rulings, etc. Two trends emerged strongly this year and this was one of them.

One trend we saw was generally high school students (sometimes included a few mature younger teens) were given much more discretion when it came to visitation and on matters such as this. It was usually when both parents were in the same community and for school extracurriculars, social events and part time jobs, etc. If it had to do with dating, forget it.

Also, generally the parenting plan was either changed for the high school child to have 1 overnight every other weekend and a few hours to include dinner in the off week on a weeknight, or that the teenager would still exercise every other weekend visitation but was allowed to drive to the sanctioned activities or job during the visitation and be with the NCP the other portions of the weekend.

This has been a trend with EVERY Judge in my areas, including the Judge that has previously made it known that any attorney that put anyone under the age of 18 on the stand in family court just earned a very big black mark on their side of the case.

Also, if anything is filed in Court, the parties will have to go through mediation prior to trial so here will be an additional opportunity for the parents to negotiate a visitation plan best for them and the teens.

In my state judges routinely will allow teens almost full discretion about visitation once they hit 16. I have heard more than one judge tell a parent that if you haven't figured out how to have the kind of relationship with your teenager where they want to spend time with you at 16, I am not going to force them to do it. Judges here even take the whole dating bit into consideration to some extent...particularly when it comes to dates for proms, homecoming, and other important events for teens.

I once watched a case in the courtroom where dad had filed for contempt against mom because his 14 year old refused to visit. The judge refused to hear much in the way of arguments beyond the fact that the teen never got to do anything during dad's weekends. He got out two copies of the guidelines, and told the parents to follow them. The judge then told dad...."listen dad, I think its pretty clear that you do not grasp parenting a teenager. If you don't realize that parenting a teenager means that you are going to be spending most of your weekend driving the teenager to places they need/want to be, then you are not understanding reality. I suggest that you figure it out now, because once she hits 16, I am going to let her decide for herself whether or not to visit."

I also once listened to an ncp dad complain because his teenage son didn't spend weekends with him anymore because of a part time job and dating. I asked him, "so, you mean that your son cannot spend the weekend at your house and still work and date? You cannot spend any time with him between the work and the dates?" (Son worked Fri nights and went on dates Sat nights...leaving the day on Saturday and Sunday when they could have spent time together). Dad gave me this totally blank stare like he had never even considered that. He thanked me later when his son was back to spending regular weekends at his house because dad dropped his whole 'tude about the son not being able to work or date on his weekends.

The reality of parenting teenagers is that neither parent, even in intact families gets to spend uninterrupted weekends with their children. Why in the world would divorced parents not realize that its no different if you are divorced? The teen years are those years when your children gravitate away from you, finding their eventual niche towards their adult life. You are lucky if you get 30 minutes of quality time here and there. They are always coming and going.

I will never understand parents of teens who cannot grasp that whole concept.