Double Jeopardy

[blackgold]

What is the name of your state? Tennessee

If you've been arrested for a DUI charge and taken to jail. A magistrate says that you are eligible for bond and and sets it. You tell the jail sheriff's officers that you are able to make bond and have a sober ride to come pick you up. The officers tell you that even if you are able to make bond and have a sober ride to pick you up, that you are still required to spend a mandatory six hours in jail. They say that when I get my jail time from the judge that I'll get credit for the six hours that I was held.

Isn't that double jeapardy? I told them that I may be found not guilty. I thought that one of the definitions of double jeapardy was that you cannot be punished twice for the same offense. In essense, haven't I already been punished. If I didn't have a sober ride and the ability to make bond, I would understand.

What are your takes on this?

 

[rmet4nzkx]

That is not double jeopardy.

 

[Litigation!]

What is the name of your state? Tennessee

If you've been arrested for a DUI charge and taken to jail. A magistrate says that you are eligible for bond and and sets it. You tell the jail sheriff's officers that you are able to make bond and have a sober ride to come pick you up. The officers tell you that even if you are able to make bond and have a sober ride to pick you up, that you are still required to spend a mandatory six hours in jail. They say that when I get my jail time from the judge that I'll get credit for the six hours that I was held.

Isn't that double jeapardy? I told them that I may be found not guilty. I thought that one of the definitions of double jeapardy was that you cannot be punished twice for the same offense. In essense, haven't I already been punished. If I didn't have a sober ride and the ability to make bond, I would understand.

What are your takes on this?

My response:

Oh, brother. Did you even bother to look up the definition of Double Jeopardy before you came here to write your post?

IAAL

 

[acmb05]

What is the name of your state? Tennessee

If you've been arrested for a DUI charge and taken to jail. A magistrate says that you are eligible for bond and and sets it. You tell the jail sheriff's officers that you are able to make bond and have a sober ride to come pick you up. The officers tell you that even if you are able to make bond and have a sober ride to pick you up, that you are still required to spend a mandatory six hours in jail. They say that when I get my jail time from the judge that I'll get credit for the six hours that I was held.

Isn't that double jeapardy? I told them that I may be found not guilty. I thought that one of the definitions of double jeapardy was that you cannot be punished twice for the same offense. In essense, haven't I already been punished. If I didn't have a sober ride and the ability to make bond, I would understand.

What are your takes on this?

I think they should have let you go and the moment you walked out of the jail they should have rearrested you for public drunkenness. There is a reason they have a "sobering up" period on the books. If they were to release you when you were still legally drunk and you went out and got in an accident they could be held responsible.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

My response:

Oh, brother. Did you even bother to look up the definition of Double Jeopardy before you came here to write your post?

IAAL

Perhaps OP thought it was the name of a drink?

 

[acmb05]

double jeopardy?

I'll take "I'm a drunken idiot" for 1000 Alex.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

Related thread, https://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?t=312547

 

[blackgold]

I thought that I knew the legal definition of double jeapardy IAAL, but please enlighten me. For some reason, I thought that one of the legal definitions was having multiple punishments for the same offense. Is case history wrong?


Also, acmb05, would you please enlighten me to Tennessees statute on the "sobering up" period. I can't seem to find a law that defines a sobering up period. You seem quite familier with the law, so tell me. In addition I also made reference to being released to a sober guardian, not released into the streets with a vehicle.

Also when you point to the sobering up period on the books please make sure it details the amount of sober up time that is necessary. I'm sure that it's not an arbitrary number. I'm sure that it's scientific.

Thank you for your help. It is greatly appreciated.

 

[seniorjudge]

Q: I thought that I knew the legal definition of double jeapardy IAAL, but please enlighten me. For some reason, I thought that one of the legal definitions was having multiple punishments for the same offense. Is case history wrong?

A: That is one of the definitions; one that does not apply to the info you gave.



Q: Also, acmb05, would you please enlighten me to Tennessees statute on the "sobering up" period. I can't seem to find a law that defines a sobering up period. You seem quite familier with the law, so tell me. In addition I also made reference to being released to a sober guardian, not released into the streets with a vehicle.

A: There is probably no statute on it; however, a judge can make reasonable conditions on bail. One of those reasonable conditions is that you are sober when you leave the jail house.


Q: Also when you point to the sobering up period on the books please make sure it details the amount of sober up time that is necessary. I'm sure that it's not an arbitrary number. I'm sure that it's scientific.

A: There is no one certain number for every human being since the variables between people is too great. A judge could possibly give the jailer the discretion to the jailer to release the person when the prisoner was sober.

 

[blackgold]

Mandatory time

Thank you seniorjudge for the mature post. I do appreciate it.

I guess I have a question regarding the mandatory time in jail. Mandatory times in jail are usually established by the legislators, not the jails or judges. In this case the jail has a mandatory jail time before being release on a set bond. I understand that a judge does not want someone to go out and re-offend. Completely understandable. But when a predetermined amount of mandatory jail time has been established without basis how can that not be punishment.

In this case the mandatory jail time is six hours. Call it what you want, but when you require someone to remain in jail after a bond amount has been set, it is mandatory jail time.

Some people could be released from jail in six hours and still be drunk. They could still re-offend. This doesn’t accomplish the purpose of the rule.

Others may come in with a .05 bac and be sober way before the six hours. If someone is sober in one hour why would they have to stay five more hours. Wouldn’t the additional five hours be punishment.

My point is that there is no baseline to the argument of a six hour rule. Six hours is an arbitrary number that punishes people before conviction. There is most likely no data or studies on a six hour rule.

If they don’t want people to leave until sober then let them leave when sober. There is no reason why a jail officer can’t perform an in-house breathalyzer test. If a person refuses the test, fine. Let them stay a mandatory time, but offer the test.

My point on double jeopardy is that it sounds like punishment has already occurred when a person can make bond but won’t be released due to mandatory hours.

 

[seniorjudge]

Q: I guess I have a question regarding the mandatory time in jail. Mandatory times in jail are usually established by the legislators, not the jails or judges.

A: Yes, except in cases of putting conditions on bail.


Q: In this case the jail has a mandatory jail time before being release on a set bond. I understand that a judge does not want someone to go out and re-offend. Completely understandable. But when a predetermined amount of mandatory jail time has been established without basis how can that not be punishment.

A: Because everyone is treated the same. If you test .08 or .18, you wait 6 hours; the guy who tested .18 may NOT in fact be sober when released. That is simply not punishment.



Q: In this case the mandatory jail time is six hours. Call it what you want, but when you require someone to remain in jail after a bond amount has been set, it is mandatory jail time.

A: Okay. Irrelevant but okay.


Q: Some people could be released from jail in six hours and still be drunk. They could still re-offend. This doesn’t accomplish the purpose of the rule.

A: True; my rule was 12 hours unless the jailer thought the guy was still drunk and then to hold them longer.


Q: Others may come in with a .05 bac and be sober way before the six hours. If someone is sober in one hour why would they have to stay five more hours. Wouldn’t the additional five hours be punishment. My point is that there is no baseline to the argument of a six hour rule. Six hours is an arbitrary number that punishes people before conviction. There is most likely no data or studies on a six hour rule. If they don’t want people to leave until sober then let them leave when sober. There is no reason why a jail officer can’t perform an in-house breathalyzer test. If a person refuses the test, fine. Let them stay a mandatory time, but offer the test.

A: The jailers don't have time for all this; six hours the judge says and six hours it is.


Q: My point on double jeopardy is that it sounds like punishment has already occurred when a person can make bond but won’t be released due to mandatory hours.

A: There is no punishment in your example; just a holding.

www.tsc.state.tn.us/opinions/tcca/PDF/013/browns.pdf

The court can set reasonable conditions of bail (as I said).

A six hour hold on before a drunk is released is reasonable.

 

[blackgold]

guardian

seniorjudge, I really appreciate your opinion. I was thinking that the first responses I received validate a reason to pull the internet from prisons.

Did you ever allow a person to bond out earlier than the twelve hours if they had a sober guardian to sign for them? They used to do that in the county I live. In fact they used to allow a bail bondsman to sign them out.

 

[seniorjudge]

seniorjudge, I really appreciate your opinion. I was thinking that the first responses I received validate a reason to pull the internet from prisons.

Did you ever allow a person to bond out earlier than the twelve hours if they had a sober guardian to sign for them? They used to do that in the county I live. In fact they used to allow a bail bondsman to sign them out.

I don't ever recall making an exception; my jurisdiction was NOT going to get sued (by someone the drunk hit) as long as I had anything to say about it.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

They could have held your for several days before they set bail, then there would not be a question about whether or not you were still drunk or a harm to self or others.

 

[blackgold]

A joke

rmet4nzkx, what is your point? I didn't asked a question about how long one could be held before a bail was set, so why would you post this. I understand that bond does not have to be set right away or at any time.

I would like to appreciate that fact that you want to respond to questions someone might post on here, but I don't. If you're going to post responses that are like this (and your previous post) than I'd prefer you move onto another question from someone else.

So far I've only read intelligent responses on here from seniorjudge. I might not want to hear what he has to say, but his responses are well taken.

For nearly ever other response on this thread, I find it to be a joke. In fact when I challenged a couple of things said the "experts" shut-up. I suggest that if you are going to respond to someone's question, be prepared to it back up and prove what you are saying.

rmet4nzkx and others, you are perfect examples of why I believe internet access should be removed from our prisons.