Drivers license suspended, now what?

[Jay76]

What is the name of your state?....Fla.

Hello Everyone, I'm new to this site, hopefully someone here can help me resolve a problem.

My elderly father (in his 90's) has had his drivers license suspended for failure to appear for a medical review. I just found out about it a couple days ago. He does not know I know about the suspension.

He is still driving as he has always refused to listen to anyone who tries to tell him what to do or not do. I want to get him off the road because he is a legitimate danger to himself IMO and all the innocent people on the road. I prefer that he does not know I have anything to do with attempts to accomplish same in order to keep peace in the family & my home, if at all possible.

If I take the keys, he will just use a spare or have the vehicle re-keyed etc.....I know him like a book. If I disable the vehicle he will just have it towed and repaired or made driveable again. I don't want to cause him undue stress either due to his age but I do feel somewhat morally responsible to get him off the highways especially since he lives under my roof now for the last couple of years. I don't understand why the State of Fla. doesn't send over a police officer to make him surrender his license and put a little scare into him? I may try & call the police myself if that is what it will take to accomplish what is necessary.

I was just hoping for some advice from someone who has gone thru something similar, hopefully also from my state. I don't want his vehicle impounded & I don't want him to get fined or arrested or etc.......I just want safety for everyone.

Appreciate any advice.....Thanks.

 

[HomeGuru]

duplicate thread.

 

[Jay76]

So Home Guru, what is that supposed to mean: Duplicate thread?

If ya are referring to the fact that I posted a very similar thread under the Traffic Law section, I want ya to know I now posted over here as I think I mistakenly posted before in the wrong or not the best place. Still not sure where my questions should be posed?

 

[HomeGuru]

So Home Guru, what is that supposed to mean: Duplicate thread?

If ya are referring to the fact that I posted a very similar thread under the Traffic Law section, I want ya to know I now posted over here as I think I mistakenly posted before in the wrong or not the best place. Still not sure where my questions should be posed?

**A: so just leave this thread alone or delete it since your other thread is getting the desired activity.

 

[Jay76]

What is **A supposed to mean?

Are you a moderator or administrator here?

Unless it is against the rules to post a thread than can fall under two different category headings, I'll just leave it in both places if I'm not rocking the boat too much here. I don't expect my question will get a lot of action or many responses so it will be over soon. Mind waiting?

 

[BlondiePB]

Jay76,
You have your hands full. First, please close or delete one of these threads. It's too inconvenient. Assistance with elders does need to be here. But, you choose which one to close or delete.

CdJava did give you good direction. Having a discussion with your local police department is a first start. It may take this type of authority in order for your father to get it through his head that he is not allowed on the road.

Clarification of some other things would be helpful.
1. Who ordered the medical review that your father failed to show up for?
2. Do you have POA for your father?
3. Does your father have the means to live at an Assisted Living Facility?

 

[Jay76]

Blondie,

If it doesn't bother anyone TOO MUCH, I will leave both threads open where they are already, simply because some people who may be able to help with experienced suggestions may not look into this Elder Law section and vice versa regarding the Traffic Law section. If a mod or Administrator/manager here feels otherwise and won't grant my request then I have no big problems with them moving my posts from one section to the other as I don't want to upset anyone here.

I really am not looking for a simple discussion on my dilema or for people to jump back & forth between threads to see what the other person may have said before they relate their hopefully first-hand knowledge. I'm basically only looking for experienced advice (taking in all the factors listed below) rather than just possibly helpful suggestions. I hope that comment is taken in the right light. I do however appreciate everyone's input. ..........That of course may not happen (getting experienced advice under same circumstances) but I am still hopeful that I may get lucky in finding someone like that reading my problem.

I'll repeat (in summation), I basically only want to know (best from people who have experienced the same exact problem) what is a good way to handle this situation while remembering ALL the factors involved without trying to change any of them: #1 - father will not co-operate in any way with anything nor will he even simply listen to suggestions or advice; #2 - I don't want him to know I was involved in any way if possible; #3 - I don't want him to be arrested or fined or have his vehicle towed; #4 - There is no one (other than myself if I have to) related to him willing to sit down and talk to him; #5 - father does not trust anyone on the face of this earth so therefore he would not give anyone P.O.A. etc. etc.; #6 - not that it really has anything to do with the current problem (?) but the only way to get father to live somewhere else would be to legally evict him and I'd rather not do that at this time, if ever.

Not sure why you asked your question #1............ I agree with the fact, from personal observation, that his driving habits/physical & mental condition/etc. are dangerous and he should not be on the road to endanger innocent people or himself. So, to name the person who reported him to the authorities in the first place, I think is irrelevant and I will therefore leave that person(s) out of the equation as a requested courtesy to him/her/them. Please, however, do elaborate on that point if relevant in some way that I am not aware of.......

Well, I guess that about covers it all. Thanks again to those who gave me some time & advice, whether it was from personal experience or not. Great group y'all have here.

 

[BlondiePB]

Jay76,
The reason for the questions is to try to better assist the entire situation. Picture this: elderly gentleman about your father's age with multiple health problems and dementia gets released from a hospital, later in the day takes a drive to the store 1/2 mile away that he's driven to for over 30 yrs., ends up lost in the next county, paramedics are called, ends up in another hospital the same evening; arrangements were made to return his car to his home. Gentleman then discharged to a nursing home, nursing home was not going to give him a safe discharge on day of impending discharge, and then gentleman later sent to hospital with another problem. Upon that discharge, gentleman returns home and of course wants to drive his car, attempts to do so, but the tire is flat from a nail that got in the tire from when he got lost and drove off the road. No one will change his tire, so gentleman decides to buy a new car, calls the dealership, a tow truck is sent to pick him (and his wife) up and the car. How they both got into that tow truck, I don't want to know. Gentleman has large foley bag, soiled clothes, and if he let go of holding his trousers, they fell down to his ankles. Dealership tries to get me out of establishment because I was interferring with a huge sale ($10,000.00 over invoice not including the trade). This is just part of what I dealt with while waiting for the incapacity hearing and becoming this man's guardian. There's more, but I think you got the jist. Yes, he did lose his license. It did register that a judge took his license away. Do you think that stopped him from asking when he could get his license back? Just dealing with that is another issue. I think I'm qualified. A new post is needed to address some things.

 

[Jay76]

Thanks again Blondie for your time. I understand, somewhat, about what you are saying to me as something a little bit similar happened to my father. His prior vehicle had a problem starting. Probably a simple matter of a short in the ignition or something he caused, I'm sure. So we had a small arguement on what he should do about it. He then said he wanted to buy a new vehicle rather than do a simple repair of the old one (still in great mechanical shape with only 27,000 miles on it) and I said that I was busy that day but would take him to look around the following weekend (for the heck of it, I didn't really want him to buy anything new at his age as I figured he wouldn't be driving much longer even then & also because he ruins everything in a couple of months). He of course wanted to go right away and so to spite me he walked to the corner to take the bus to the nearest car dealership but wound up getting a ride from a passer-by.

A few hrs. later, he drove home a brand new little truck (the one he has now). This was about 2 years ago. He paid sticker price, did not negotiate one dime off of the window sticker price and the model was going out already to boot. They also soaked him for a bed liner in addition and he bought a full size spare tire & wheel because he did not like the donut spare. So in summation he is capable of doing anything at a moments notice. Later his other vehicle disappeared from the driveway. He probably just gave it away to also spite me, knowing him. What a character he is.

I did not mean to imply you are not qualified to answer my original questions. I just meant I was looking for advice from someone with the SAME problem I mentioned with the same factors involved/listed or close to it.

What exactly do you mean by "a new post is needed to address some things"?

I am also thinking of what to do in the future with other matters relating to the obvious signs of increasing dementia. I will need to look into the whole matter of guardianship etc. etc. BUT once again he would never agree to appoint me as legal guardian or anyone for that matter as remember he trusts no one. He has even said that he will give all his savings to the Chuch or whomever he likes (of course out of spite) rather than to his wife/children/grandchildren.

 

[BlondiePB]

From what I have gathered, someone reported your father to the police. That is not relevant. What is relevant is who (DMV or other authority) wanted the medical review for your father to have his license reinstated. Not showing up for that medical review is a sign of mental incompetence.

Whether you can or cannot remain anonymous with this situation is another manner. It may not be possible. Again, a discussion with the local police department about this and having them talk with your father would be easiest. How does your father react to authority figures? Since he is so stubborn, that probably will not work. Then you will have no option for his and others safety to take further action by calling Adult Protective Services. Yes, your father will be upset. It is necessary for his and others safety. A limited or plenary guardianship/conservatorship may be in your dad's best interest, though he will disagree. Your father is a danger to himself and to others.

For your own sanity, I recommended an Assisted Living Facility. ALF's have a lot of activities that can keep your father busy. Moreover, the resident physician at the ALF can be your father's primary care doctor, and the nursing staff can monitor any medications and other medical problems. If your father is a veteran, he may be eligible for monetary assistance to live at an ALF.

 

[Jay76]

You sure are a sweetheart Blondie for trying to help me. I really do appreciate it.

To answer your question a little more specifically. His poor driving abilities/habits were reported to the state medical review office in Tallahasse (from what I know) who forwarded it to the local office in my town. They sent him two notices (from what I learned by inquiring) to appear for a consultation etc...... They sent one to his P.O. Box & one to my house here which was taken out of the mailbox here & handed directly to him. He ignored both. The local office then sent two inspectors to my home to physically talk to him and tell him not to ignore the next notice he would receiive in about 6 weeks. I was standing next to him when they told him that. He said he would not ignore it but did so anyway, therefore I just found out that the state then suspended his license awhile back but did not even notify me of that after I requested to the 2 visiting inspectors (when he went inside) that they do so.

Btw, as a side note, even my neighbors informed me that they themselves witnessed him knock over the maibox(s) and drive on their lawns. Plus he did get in a car accident which was obviously his fault but neither party called the police. He just brought strangers to my home about 10pm and paid them off in the driveway so as not to mar his driving record. Who knows who he will bring here next?

They did not originally want a medical review to reinstate his license but a medical review etc. to determine whether or not he should keep his license. Now that it has been suspended for failure to appear, he of course will have to now go down for that review & driving test to get it reinstated which I know he will not do and will not pass if he did go down, so that is a moot point I guess.


He does not react well to authority figures at all nor does he listen to them. He may "yes" them to their face but that is as far as compliance will go.

I'm sure I will have to get the local police involved & only hope they keep my involvement quiet. I was just hoping for another way out of the problem.

Care to elaborate on that limited or plenary/conservatorship you mentioned. Can that be done against his will as he won't sign anything or give any power over himself to anyone.

He would never agree to an assisted living facility or etc.....The only way I can relocate him is if I legally evict him as far as I know & I would rather not do that to my father UNLESS he actually gives me no choice or proves to be a serious liability to my personal welfare or to my home/family etc.......I'm willing to help him out in my home here but he must get with the program which I doubt he will unless legally forced to somehow.

No, he is not a veteran..........Thanks again Blondie.

 

[BlondiePB]

You're very welcome, Jay. With the additional information you provided, Adult Protective Services (APS) needs to be called. God Bless your father for his assertiveness. Unfortunately, dad is not making competent decisions. Since your dad all ready has established "a record" with state agencies, it would be a miracle that APS would not take further action and petition for a competency hearing. I'll look up and post information for you to read in a bit.

Limited guardianships are control over either the person or over the estate (assets). Plenary guardianships are control over both. Yes, this can be done against his will if deemed necessary by the court. You're father will have legal representation that is court appointed that will represent him.

The last thing I would recommend is that you evict your father. There was another poster recently who was "blasted" here on the forum for wanting to evict his disabled mother. Please do check into ALFs. Since your father "won't get with the program," getting him involved with all the things elders do at ALFs will afford him the opportunity to get with the "program" of his choosing, make friends, and socialize with other elders. Who knows, perhaps he can entertain himself with all the ladies. He'll definitely be outnumbered by women.

May I ask what is the county you reside in. You can PM this if you don't wish to post it.

 

[BlondiePB]

www.flsenate.gov/statutes

Ch 744 - Guardianships
Ch 415 - APS

 

[Jay76]

Blondie, you are going to have to send me a bill for all your time.

I didn't know we can pm here, how does one do that, I see no where to click on for that.

People who don't know the whole story or haven't lived in another's shoes should really not "blast" anyone in my opinion regarding that statement ya made on how some here blasted someone else for wanting to evict their disabled mother. Of course I don't know the specifics or know what kind of person that was since I did not read that thread etc...... One should not think that every parent is an angel by default. Some parents should have been locked up for various offenses in their lives and not be felt sorry for just because they are elderly or in a bind IMO & IME. Age should not be a determining factor IMO either, relating to what elders should be allowed to get away with. Some can be very vicious & cruel & tormenting. Nuff on that I guess.

I'll be interested in hearing, if possible, what can be done to get him in line and keep him in line. I nor any of the other family members here or out west want to be paying lawyers bunches of money which we don't have and the family wants to keep all family savings in the family regardless of whose personal savings account funds may currently be in. We do not want them going into the pockets of lawyers or going to the state so with that in mind I will be interested to read that info. you have so kindly offered to provide.

My father is not a mixer and again would not voluntarily go anywhere like an ALF to see what goes on there etc. or join up or be admitted voluntarily. He would not sign anything either. He would have to be cuffed & blindfolded before anyone got him to go anywhere or do anything he did not want to do. So you see the predicament I am in here. I & the family prefer, both for his interests & ours, that he stay here but get with the program here. Control over his matters & savings is almost a necessity IMO due to his sometimes irrational, irresponsible, careless & spiteful etc. behavior.

I usually don't care to air my personal or family business out in the open like on a forum such as this but maybe by doing so, our convo may help someone else avoid some of these headaches. Thanks yet one more time for your assistance Blondie.

Oh, btw, thanks for the link to those statutes, too tired tonight to read and study thru, hopefully will get to it tomorrow. You are a doll & a Saint & a scholar of course.

 

[BlondiePB]

I saw what your father is doing with the tag (more about that later). What great friends your dad may have to give him advice. To send a PM, just click on PM near the top of the page. And, send your address so that you can receive the bill.

As you know, reasoning with the unreasonable is just unreasonable. Another approach needs to be learned. Since you know your father the best, stay "ahead" of him as best as possible. What's the situation with your mother? Are your parents still married and do they both live with you? Considerations for her are also important.

Call APS today. You'll find them under Department of Children and Families. Once a report is made, an investigator should be out within 24 hrs. Things to include in your report are: failure to show at the medical review, knowingly driving on a suspended license, accidents, lack of regular medical checkups (elderly need to go to primary care physician approx. every 3 months for check-ups), names of neighbors that have seen your father's great driving (this is important), your father being picked up by strangers to take him to the car dealership, any incompetence in handling his financial affairs, paranoia (i.e. lack of trust, etc.), listening to and ignoring authorities, and other signs of his incompetence (confusion; forgetfulness about important matters) and endangerment to himself and others. It would be best that you be home when APS comes, but do not interfer with the investigator asking your dad questions and talking with your dad. You can talk with the investigator privately afterwards.

APS has the legal authority to file petitions for incapacity, guardianship, and waiving of the fees for the time being (until it is determined whether or not your father can afford to pay for them). Should APS determine that your father IS competent, the cost is nothing. Should APS determine that your father requires a competency hearing, this will cost approx. $1,000.00 that your father will be responsible for only if he can afford it. You will need an Elder Law Attorney that does guardianships. This will not be too expensive.

As for dad and the tag, I want you to experiment with him. When you see that the tag is not on the truck, say something like "Dad, the tag's missing on the truck. We better call and report a stolen tag!" Hopefully, he'll "fess up" and tell you that he took it off. If he does, just nonchalantly ask him "how come?" If he responds and gives you an answer, what ever it is, tell him something like "Oh, you're so smart", "that's a great idea" etc. Do not start reasoning or an argument with him. Should he tell you he doesn't know what happened to the tag, report a stolen tag.

When dealing with your dad, keep in mind that your dad "knows not what he is doing." This is particularly helpful for keeping your sanity and when you are frustrated and an argument is about to begin.

I'll check back later today. You're welcome for the help.