Duty to Facilitate Relationship with NCP

[wileybunch]

My mommy-bias says a Mother's Day card is a non-negotiable sign of respect. After all, I don't give kiddos the choice whether to participate for Father's Day; I take them to Hallmark and announce, "OK, time to pick something out for Daddy." Then again, if I suspected that my child gave me a Mother's Day card only when forced...

It should be ... but mothers shouldn't swear their kids off as easily as her mom does, even if it's for short periods. I agree with the therapist and DH -- I don't think she should be FORCED to do it, but strongly encouraged to make her take the high road, her mother is her mom even when she makes mistakes, etc. There are things kids often don't want to do that they have to be strongly encouraged to do, they can't just blow with the wind even if they have very good reasons. But, then forcing it completely isn't going to accomplish anything in the long run, either.

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

In my humble opinion, I think that dad should take daughter to the store, pick out a card and mail it. Why?

In the Jewish faith, there is a day (don't remember which one) where we forgive those who have done something to us. It's called "letting go." We can move on in life if we forgive and LET IT GO. That is one of life's lessons that everyone needs to learn.

Mom may be kicking herself in the tush for what she stated, and looking for a way to make it go away. Someone has to be bigger; that it has to be a child is quite telling, but it is the way it is.

Does the daughter have to find anything gushy that extols LOVE. No. But she would not be on this earth if she didn't have a mother. So, dad has to make peace with this also.

We don't always love the people we are related to, but, we cannot pick our relatives, only our friends.

 

[jbowman]

We don't always love the people we are related to, but, we cannot pick our relatives, only our friends.

Im just going to say something that people may or may not feel is completely offensive but it is something I have decided to go by -- family or other:

If something doesnt add to your life, subtract it.

I have done this in the case of a family member. It has seriously helped my life tremendously. The stress level that I had when dealing with this particular family member was over the top. All of it from childhood issues such as this child is dealing with now.

 

[penelope10]

Im just going to say something that people may or may not feel is completely offensive but it is something I have decided to go by -- family or other:



I have done this in the case of a family member. It has seriously helped my life tremendously. The stress level that I had when dealing with this particular family member was over the top. All of it from childhood issues such as this child is dealing with now.

I won't take offense because it's something I have had to do myself. But I'm an adult and it's taken me years to get to that place. (and it wasn't a decision based on anger).

Seems that there are nays and yays as to whether to encourage D to send Mom a MDay card. I believe the therapist suggested it should be D's decision. Now D has had contact with Mom since she first stated she didn't want to give Mom a MDay card. So maybe D's attitude is softening a bit.

Don't see any harm in asking D, "Have you thought any more about whether you want to send your Mom a MDay card?" If D were my kiddo (based on the fact that her therapist has already stated that it should be D's decision) and she said no, I think I'd respect her wishes. But that's just IMO.

 

[proud_parent]

Thanks for the responses. No big surprise -- there seems to be an even split between yeas/nays.

I'll gently restate my position to H and then step back and let him and D handle it.


I do want to point out, for the record:

Now D has had contact with Mom since she first stated she didn't want to give Mom a MDay card. So maybe D's attitude is softening a bit.

Actually, D's note to her mom pre-dated her "no card" declaration. In fact, it pre-dated the therapist's recommendation; therapist was out sick for a week and didn't get back to H until AFTER we'd nudged D to send a reply, as we reasoned D's recent school and extracurricular activities would provide ample fodder for things to write about. It took kiddo two nights to come up with three or four sentences -- but she procrastinates with any task that isn't her idea. D spent as much time deciding whether to use "Mama" or "Momma" in her greeting as she did actually composing the note.

 

[tuffbrk]

Thanks for the responses. No big surprise -- there seems to be an even split between yeas/nays.

D spent as much time deciding whether to use "Mama" or "Momma" in her greeting as she did actually composing the note.

How heart breaking. And another procrastination tactic as well!! You might tell her to skip the greeting and just write - Hi! and then write her note...might make it easier.

Seems like a great deal of time & emphasis is being placed on this. Downplay it. Have her pick a card or Dad pick a card - something simple, not mushy - Hey Sweetie - come give us your John Han**** and move on, ya know? Same with the post cards - hey why don't you tell your mom you did great on your test - She can open with - Guess What? I got a 100 on my test today!! Can't believe it. Sign her name ---and move on. IMO - downplay this as a no big deal, as opposed to this serious thought provoking exercise each time...

 

[stealth2]

My two - but especially my oldest - have a difficult relationship with their Dad. I'm not big on cards myself, but I do expect them to call him on special days. While I think he should call them on holidays as well, there's nothing I can do about that, so I make sure they call him and his mother (different issue, and it has nothing to do with her). The only special days I don't expect them to try to reach him are their own birthdays. Other than that, they know it's non-negotiable - they call. I know I've done my part, and they know they've made the effort.

 

[proud_parent]

IMO - downplay this as a no big deal, as opposed to this serious thought provoking exercise each time...

You are right about that! Hubby and I share the fatal flaw of talking things to death. Sometimes before a decision is made, sometimes post-mortem.

We are mindful of playing this up too much. H told therapist that we do not want to make contact with her mom a chore for D.

Unfortunately, since her mom returned from England, D has tended to escalate every exchange with her into a major soul-searching epic. As soon as she found a way to articulate what she wanted to ask her mom, she grasped on and refused to let go. It got to a point (a few months before her mom stopped calling) that her therapist helped her make a list of "safe" and "off-limits" questions to ask during phone calls, with things like, "When are you coming to see me?" and "Why did you move away?" going in the NO column. We are tired of spending one hour hugging and consoling her to every fifteen minutes of contact between them.

Encouraging D to think and to act like an eight year old instead of a small adult is like undoing nearly seven years of her upbringing. They say it takes roughly as long to train out a negative behavior as it does to learn it; by that yardstick, we'll reach equilibrium right about the time hormones kick in.

 

[penelope10]

You are right about that! Hubby and I share the fatal flaw of talking things to death. Sometimes before a decision is made, sometimes post-mortem.

We are mindful of playing this up too much. H told therapist that we do not want to make contact with her mom a chore for D.

Unfortunately, since her mom returned from England, D has tended to escalate every exchange with her into a major soul-searching epic. As soon as she found a way to articulate what she wanted to ask her mom, she grasped on and refused to let go. It got to a point (a few months before her mom stopped calling) that her therapist helped her make a list of "safe" and "off-limits" questions to ask during phone calls, with things like, "When are you coming to see me?" and "Why did you move away?" going in the NO column. We are tired of spending one hour hugging and consoling her to every fifteen minutes of contact between them.

Encouraging D to think and to act like an eight year old instead of a small adult is like undoing nearly seven years of her upbringing. They say it takes roughly as long to train out a negative behavior as it does to learn it; by that yardstick, we'll reach equilibrium right about the time hormones kick in.

Oh honey just wait until those hormones kick in. I was lucky that for kiddo number 1 it didn't happen until almost age 16. Lil Bit is 13 and it still hasn't happen LOL!!!!!

My heart goes out to you, your Hubby and this Lil Bit. Fortunately she's got two really terrific folks in her life that are loving and caring. That goes a long, long way in a child's life.

I still believe that letting D make the decision to send Mom the card is the way to go. You or hubby can ask her again as was suggested earlier...

 

[wileybunch]

proud_parent, my exH earned the boat he's in now, but we do "force" 9yo DD to talk to him on the phone when he calls. He only wishes to call them once/month and sometimes misses and changed his 3 weekend visits/year to 1 weekend plus 1 5-day visit. DD really doesn't like him too much; DS is much more accepting (he gets Yugi-oh cards and other things he likes on visits so that helps, too). DD keeps refusing to talk to him on the phone, says she doesn't want to talk, has hung up on him, etc. One of the things we tell her that she needs to listen then. She's not allowed to not get on the phone and she knows we will call back or answer if he calls back. He's never told the kids he doesn't want them outright, but he wasn't a part of their life for a few years and then in small periods and DD's just not accepting him and it's not getting better with time. While he did "earn" this status with her, I also know it's damaging to her so I'm going to suggest to ex a counselor here when he comes into town that maybe he can meet with or in a session with her. If he doesn't want to, I'm going to have to take her because I don't want her to build a wall that's impossible to tear down. I want her to be able to accept him for who he is even if he's disappointed her.

 

[penelope10]

I just wanted to add one more post. I thought it might be of some value. At 19 I lost one of my parents. I was twice the age of this little girl. My surviving parent was a difficult person.Played a lot of games like this Mom. I had relatives etc. tell me that I needed to continue contact with this person because some day I might regret it. And after all this person was my parent and I owed them respect because of this. So I listened to these folks who meant well. They thought they had my best interests at heart. And every time I went to this parent I ended up becoming terribly disappointed because this parent could not be the person I wanted them to be. It was like being terribly thirsty and going to an empty well over and over again.

Well finally at middle age a light bulb went off in my head. This person would never be the person I wanted them to be. No need to get angry or hurt, it's just the way it was. I limited this person's contact with me. Didn't cut this person out of my life, just limited my exposure. This freed to me to really appreciate those other folks that weren't dry wells in my life. That were giving and kind and lovely people.

I think that this is what D's therapist is trying to help her discover. I really don't believe in pushing a child to a dry well. Now if D wants to send Mom a Mother's Day card she should. And if she doesn't that should be fine too. (And of course if Mom really wants to repair the relationship she SHOULD be given the opportunity). But Mom needs to also work on keeping the door open by kindly coming and knocking (if you get what I mean).

 

[LdiJ]

I haven't weighed in on this thread before now because I honestly didn't quite know how to respond.

However, I am going to weigh in now.

Legally...I don't think that dad has any obligation to do anything that the court order doesn't require him to do.

We throw around a lot that the cp has an obligation to facilitate a relationship between the child and the ncp, but honestly all that the CP has a legal obligation to do is obey the court order. So, in essence, we lie a bit to CPs when we tell them that they have an obligation to faciliate a relationship between the child and the ncp, beyond what is dictated by the court order.

9 times out of 10 that "white lie" is in the child's best interest. 1 time out of 10 its a situation like this one.

If mom was a normal, involved mother, (or even haphazardly involved) then I would pound into the CPs head that it was his obligation to make sure that the child acknowledged mom on mother's day, her birthday and Christmas.

However, in this instance I don't believe that dad is obligated to do anything more than follow the court order, and if the court order is no longer workable, then I think that dad should get it back to court ASAP to get something ordered that IS workable.

In other words...unless mom attempts to exercise visitation (telephone or otherwise) based on the court ordered schedule, I don't think that this particular dad needs to do squat...and it sounds to me like that is what the child's counselor thinks as well.