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Hi Again,
I was just reading another thread here:

atomizer
Senior Member

Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,143
Your LL is required to provide heat only if the lease calls for it.

LSNJLAW - Tenants' Rights Chapter 6: Your Right to Safe and Decent Housing

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Today, 09:19 AM
Some Random Guy
Senior Member

Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,799
Quote:
Originally Posted by atomizer
Your LL is required to provide heat only if the lease calls for it.

LSNJLAW - Tenants' Rights Chapter 6: Your Right to Safe and Decent Housing
Actually if you go directly to the statute, they are required to do more.

http://www.njabp.com/dca/divisions/codes/codreg/pdf_regs/njac_5_10.pdf

Quote:
TITLE 5. COMMUNITY AFFAIRS
CHAPTER 10. MAINTENANCE OF HOTELS AND MULTIPLE DWELLINGS
§ 5:10-14.4 Minimum temperature
(skipping to section (c)
(c) The owner shall be obligated to supply required fuel or energy and maintain the heating system in good operating condition so that it can supply heat as required herein, notwithstanding any contractual provision seeking to delegate or shift responsibility to the occupant or third person, except that the owner shall not be required to supply fuel or energy for heating purposes to any unit where the occupant thereof agrees in writing to supply heat to his own unit of dwelling space and the said unit is served by its own exclusive heating equipment for which the source of heat can be separately computed and billed.
My emphasis added. Notice that the statute says that the owner must provide the heating system and fuel unless the tenant agrees to pay for fuel. Nowhere does the statute relieve the owner of the responsibility of maintining the heating system in "good operating condition."

This was essentially my question about the electricity issue. . .my tenant signed the lease saying she'd be responsible for electricity. But is this still open for debate? I'm in Pennsylvania - and this thread is New Jersey - any crossovers?

Anyway, I'm going to call the electric company now and follow FarmerJ's origin advice and see what can be done. (You see I have the funny feeling when this lady applies for the electric she'll be denied and with no electricity I'm hoping she'll be out of there. Although she still could con a neighbor to run a cord to her apartment, but then I can blow the whistle on that if I see it).

Also - So should I just go to the police about the bad check? I'm not in a city but a suburb and I don't know if they'll act too busy for it or not. I'll see on Thursday. The check is for $845, which I think in PA could be a potential 2nd or 3rd degree misdemeanor - potentially - if she never makes good on it.

thanks....
 


atomizer

Senior Member
Landlord51;

I have property in PA. Tenants have occasionally not paid their bills and the gas company have removed the meters. The problem is that if you allow it, you may have a very expensive repair issue if the pipes burst. Like in NJ and most other places, you are not required to provide heat if your lease calls for the tenant to set up an account. This is a serious breach of the lease and you should be able to evict on two counts of the breach. Failure to pay rent and failure to set up for electricity. What tenants do in cases when they have a past due account with the gas company is to buy the space heaters. I don't now about you, but I find them dangerous and a serious fire hazard. Specifically if the tenant lives in filth and keeps clothing thrown about. I know your issue is with the electric, but your thermostat is probably electric and controls the heat.
 
Last edited:
Thanks atomizer,

Though in this case the issue is electricity - the heat is a different source and stays on no matter what. I pay for that because it heats the building and is not separated for individual units (though each unit has a thermostat and can control temps). Again - it's just an electricity issue, so in the winter months it comes down to the lightbulbs, TV, and refrigerator.

Here's exactly the wording of the lease she signed:

12. Utilities/Services. Tenant is responsible for the payment of all utilities and services, except for the following: heat and water (hot and cold), which shall be paid by Landlord.
 

atomizer

Senior Member
This is just a thought, since everyone rents according to his or her needs.

I place a cap on how much water water I am willing to pay for. Otherwise abuse takes place. When I was paying for gas I did the same. the tenant was responsible for any use over X amount.

Did you sign a one year lease?
 

atomizer

Senior Member
Under the PA landlord tenant act 1951 it states the following.

(b) Except as provided for in subsection (c), in case of the expiration of a term or of a forfeiture for breach of the conditions of the lease where the lease is for any term of one year or less or for an indeterminate time, the notice shall specify that the tenant shall remove within fifteen days from the date of service thereof, and when the lease is for more than one year, then within thirty days from the date of service thereof. In case of failure of the tenant, upon demand, to satisfy any rent reserved and due, the notice shall specify that the tenant shall remove within ten days from the date of the service thereof.
 
Yes - everyone's on a 12-month. It's a good idea - but I can't do it with heat because there's no way to measure individual consumption. I factor it in - the abuse. There's always the people who will blast the heat and then keep a window open - sure why not, right? But the bills stays consistent each winter - and the abusers factor into that.

Water, though, I can look into. I'm just getting people to comply with reporting leaks and running toilets. Probably after this experience I'm going to start new tenants off by having them sign recommended waiver forms and all. This situation is really off the charts for me. She's a bone fide pathological liar and thief, and I fell for her stories big time. I do a background check and she had no prior evictions and no criminal background and no bankruptcies but I overlooked her 27 collections (24 months) hoping they were all the misunderstanding and medical issues she explained to me. I was stupid and just wanted to get it rented for December because I was tired of showing it. I ignored the red flags.
 

atomizer

Senior Member
Found this article on EZine that you may find interesting.

Notice to Quit

Section 22 is a very, very important section. Each state is different here. This is what's called the Notice to Quit. This is what we talked about the other night. The Notice to Quit is the legal beginning of an eviction. It is a letter or document that you send Certified Mail typically or you deliver it to the door or send by regular mail.

In the state of Pennsylvania we are required to give a 10-day notice unless otherwise agreed to in the lease. As you notice, we make them waive the notice to quit totally. We don't have to wait 10 days. We can send it out immediately. You do not have to wait.

It's a very powerful thing because I've just saved 10 days of not having to wait around for this 10-day period to expire. At a typical rent of $1,000-$1,200, you're talking $400-500. Little things like this are built into this lease to put money in your pocket and to save you money.

You will not find that in most leases. I'm probably one of the only people in the state of Pennsylvania that has that in my lease. It is perfectly legal. It's been in front of dozens and dozens of judges. There is nothing illegal about it, but most landlords aren't smart enough or don't follow through and do this. It takes up 10 days that I don't have to wait while all the other landlords are waiting around for 10 official days. If you've got a lot of rent, that could be a big number here.

Vacating the Lease Unit. This basically says that the tenant can't vacate the leased unit.

No Waivers on Landlord. Some of these things are kind of legal-ese.

Release of the Landlord basically says the landlord is not responsible for any injury, property damage, or whatnot of the tenant. Again, this is in here to try to protect you.
 
Under the PA landlord tenant act 1951 it states the following.

(b) Except as provided for in subsection (c), in case of the expiration of a term or of a forfeiture for breach of the conditions of the lease where the lease is for any term of one year or less or for an indeterminate time, the notice shall specify that the tenant shall remove within fifteen days from the date of service thereof, and when the lease is for more than one year, then within thirty days from the date of service thereof. In case of failure of the tenant, upon demand, to satisfy any rent reserved and due, the notice shall specify that the tenant shall remove within ten days from the date of the service thereof
.

Ah ha! Okay - 10 days it is! PA likes 10 days I guess - same with the PA bad check laws. I'll call the electric now...
 

atomizer

Senior Member
I was stupid and just wanted to get it rented for December because I was tired of showing it. I ignored the red flags.

Happens to the best of us.

You just have to remember this lesson. Lucky thing is that it only takes one lesson to teach you not to get desperate and short circuit yourself.
 
okay - excellent - thanks, atomizer.

I'm going to print this and read it over with more time. But I am absolutely going to implement these kinds of things in a lease - and (try to) enforce them. I mean I might need to hire a lawyer for these kinds of evictions, but anyway. .

got to get back to work for now, but this is all extremely helpful!
 

FarmerJ

Senior Member
51 about the heating system Example , if your buildings units are heated via hot water boiler or steam heat and each unit has its own thermostat after carefully reviewing your states laws re sub metered billings /apportioned utility billings once you know what you would have to do to be able to rebill tenants for submetered utility use . There are many firms out there who sell and install submetering equipment out there that can give you numbers to work with every month in order to bill tenants for useage. There are submetering systems that can be installed on water lines too so you are able to get use numbers for every tap in a apt. typical apt think about it , 3 hots and 4 colds if there is no dishwasher or laundry in the unit. K & bath sink, tub-shower and toilet. so the shower king of the north rents from you and adores 45 minute showers they would have the privledge of paying not only for the cold water but the hot water and sewer use since all taps in the shower king of the norths unit are on submetering equipment, the change can be done one unit at a time or all at once with submetered billing to take place at lease renewals. LAST if each unit has its own Tstat for heat another thing that can be done is conservation model tstats can be installed , the ones I used at one time were designed to go no higher than 72. but no lower than 38 , typical tstats sold in hardware stores low setting may be only as little as 50 or 55 and high setting 80+ . Some states have gone as far as creating a defined heating season formula and min temperature requirement when heat is included , my state says 68 when LL incs heat , But with submetered systems for hot water/boiler heat if a tenant is not happy with temperature they are free to change it since they will be paying for it. the conservation Tstats ,( went through this arguement with my tenants where I used conservation models when heat was included , was our states laws say I have to provide 68 in the winter , the heating system will allow up to 72. They figured it out that if they wanted it warmer they were gonna have to use portable elect heaters, they did and of course they put it in living room, it heated the room up enough to fool tstat and tstat didnt call for heat as often with the electric ones running.) Conservation tstats wont stop tenant waste in the spring or fall if tenant does things like open a window for fresh air but during the heating season it they will limit the upper end of what a tenant can use and be installed at any time with out regard for when a lease ends since all they do is prevent excess use over and above most states mandated rules.
 
FarmerJ - thanks for the info on submeters for water and (baseboard) heat - I'll definitely explore this. This would save a lot of money in the long run and a very good idea.

Just an update that electric company said they'll transfer out of my name on Friday. I still don't know why it couldn't have been sooner, but after Friday, my rogue tenant will have 10 days to call the electric company and put it in her name. If she does nothing then after 10 days the power will go out. And if when she applies they deny her, then power goes out too (w/27 collections she may not be eligible). So she could be out by Jan 1.

RE BAD CHECK - so I went to police headquarters yesterday to report the bad check and they told me it was a business dispute. They wrote an incident report, though, but they seemed not to know what to do other than that. I told them I thought because of the amount of time she failed to make good on it (more than 10 days), it could be pursued as a criminal case w/possible misdemeanor charges. The officer said, "well, I can't put handcuffs on her for this." So I don't know how else to pursue this except as a civil law suit, which would be a total waste of time because this person obviously has no money.

Q: I have another legal question for anyone. Would it be illegal to tow her car out of my parking lot? Is her parking privilege also entitled to her as an "occupant" and pending formal eviction proceedings? Is her car protected under landlord-tenant laws the same way the tenant is? Again - in Pennsylvania.

Thanks in advance for any advice!
 
I'm going to start a new thread for this latest question/issue. . .

thanks again to everyone for giving me excellent advice here and how to protect myself in the future.
 

FarmerJ

Senior Member
Initially submetering cost can be large depending on how many rental units , also depends on if your going to do it your self, If a hot water boiler heating system has individual Tstats Flow meters (they look like water meter) can be installed on each units line in the boiler room easy enough and in someplaces possibly by your self then they must be read every month to see who is using how much) conservation model Tstats simpler to install but no way to moniter how much is used and be checked on a couple times during the heating season to look for signs that a tenant may have tampered with it or something else I wont say here but will say in a pvt message. Some time ago I looked at submetering systems and the ones that were designed for water used wireless to report the use to a central point so its really all in what you want to spend. If possible doing units one at a time or in small groups to coincide with lease changes as leases renew is certainly one way to do it. As far as the tenants vehicle leave it alone , its more hassle than its worth. Now on to the bad check , did you send to the tenant a demand letter yet demanding them to clean up the check ? See 3 C ii in this and make sure you verify what I posted is still the law in your state incase it has changed >>>Bad checks - 18 Pa. Cons. Stat. § 4105
§ 4105. Bad checks.
(a) Offense defined.--
(1) A person commits an offense if he issues or passes a
check or similar sight order for the payment of money,
knowing that it will not be honored by the drawee.
(2) A person commits an offense if he, knowing that it
will not be honored by the drawee, issues or passes a check
or similar sight order for the payment of money when the
drawee is located within this Commonwealth. A violation of
this paragraph shall occur without regard to whether the
location of the issuance or passing of the check or similar
sight order is within or outside of this Commonwealth. It
shall be no defense to a violation of this section that some
or all of the acts constituting the offense occurred outside
of this Commonwealth.
(b) Presumptions.--For the purposes of this section as well
as in any prosecution for theft committed by means of a bad
check, the following shall apply:
(1) An issuer is presumed to know that the check or
order (other than a post-dated check or order) would not be
paid, if:
(i) payment was refused because the issuer had no
such account with the drawee at the time the check or
order was issued; or
(ii) payment was refused by the drawee for lack of
funds, upon presentation within 30 days after issue, and
the issuer failed to make good within ten days after
receiving notice of that refusal.
Notice of refusal may be given to the issuer orally or in
writing by any person. Proof that notice was sent by
registered or certified mail, regardless of whether a receipt
was requested or returned, to the address printed on the
check or, if none, then to the issuer's last known address,
shall raise a presumption that the notice was received.
(2) A check or order stamped "NSF" or "insufficient
funds" shall raise a presumption that payment was refused by
the drawee for lack of funds.
(3) A check or order stamped "account closed" or "no
such account" or "counterfeit" shall raise a presumption that
payment was refused by the drawee because the issuer had no
such account with the drawee at the time the check or order
was issued.
(c) Grading.--
(1) An offense under this section is:
(i) a summary offense if the check or order is less
than $200;
(ii) a misdemeanor of the third degree if the check
or order is $200 or more but less than $500;
(iii) a misdemeanor of the second degree if the
check or order is $500 or more but less than $1,000;
(iv) a misdemeanor of the first degree if the check
or order is $1,000 or more but is less than $75,000; or
(v) a felony of the third degree if the check or
order is $75,000 or more.
(2) When the offense is a third or subsequent offense
within a five-year period, regardless of the amount of the
check or order and regardless of the grading of the prior
offenses, an offense under this section is a misdemeanor of
the first degree unless the amount of the check or order
involved in the third or subsequent offense is $75,000 or
more, then the offense is a felony of the third degree.
. there is more but the rest appears to apply to merchants. Yes police depts wont do alot theres just too many bad check writers out there , I know if you were a merchant and sent out the demand inc a copy of the statute and the check writer ignored you , it would be easier to go to local prosecutor and learn if they will prosecute. since this is rental eviction based on non payment (your evidence the returned check ) will take less time than trying to get local prosecutor to go after check writer getting them out. The thing with the electric like I said once before is a sep issue, the lease contract she signed clearly didnt include it so it is reasonable that you would not pay her elect and if she failed to open a elect account I really can see elect co shutting her off no matter what winter shut off rules may say because there was no acct to start with. (if by chance she gets electric in her name carry on with evicting her anyway and once you win and get her out when you call the electric co again to report the unit as vacanted and to bill you again dont be surprised if theres some grief over it.
 

atomizer

Senior Member
In San Antonio, TX, they round up all bad check writers once a year and stick them in jail. They have really neat ways to luring them in. For example they call them and tell them they have won a big screen TV, and to report to a certain location. When they have a large group, the police slip the cuffs on all of them. It's really funny how greed gets them every time.

You might want to check your locally to see if the have process or procedure for prosecuting bad check writers.
 

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