Ex-husbands credit card debt, Mine?

[Alora Foster]

What is the name of your state? WA

My ex-husband took two credit cards at the time of divorce, I got one. He has had his now go to collections. They now are coming after me. He is a deadbeat with Child support being garnished already. My question is: Do papers of Separation and the signed Divorce decree mean absolutely nothing? Is it possible, that now, 10 years later, I am now liable for a credit cards accounts from 1977-1978? The divorce was final in 1995 and from that point on, he maxed them out. Help.

 

[cmorris]

What is the name of your state? WA

My ex-husband took two credit cards at the time of divorce, I got one. He has had his now go to collections. They now are coming after me. He is a deadbeat with Child support being garnished already. My question is: Do papers of Separation and the signed Divorce decree mean absolutely nothing?

**That's right. Creditors do NOT care about divorce decrees.

Is it possible, that now, 10 years later, I am now liable for a credit cards accounts from 1977-1978? The divorce was final in 1995 and from that point on, he maxed them out. Help.

Washington is a community property state. That means, you are responsible for any debt he had during the time of the marriage. However, the statute of limitations is only 3 years for open accounts (aka revolving accounts, credit cards). If the date of last activity is at least 3 years ago, you do not have to pay. However, it will be on your credit report for 7.5 years.

You can try to negotiate a pay for delete and then sue your ex per the divorce decree. However, a pay for delete may not work.

Go to creditboards.com to learn more.

 

[Alora Foster]

WA

Thank You for your response. It still sounded a little like, yes I am responsible, no I am not though. So, am I responsible for debt from beginning of the charge cards creation. 9/77 and 4/78 to the time of the divorce 8/16/95? That amount totalled approx $1000.00 between the two. Wow, I will write that check tomorrow. OR...Am I also liable for the debt incurred by my ex ALL the way to the point where there is last activity? On the 9/77 the last date of activity was 6/02 and on the 4/78 the last date of activity was 7/02. Dates are according to Equifax. That amount is $9063.00. The total they are asking for is $11,000. Interesting foot note: I found out about this whole thing by my employer calling me in to say they have paperwork to garnish my check. That was the first I had heard of any of this. I called an attorney who asked me when I was served? mmm. I never was. You see, the attorneys representing the cards did not know I was divorced. They have all thier paperwork saying I am still married to my ex. So, I filed (myself) (not sure if I did this right,) a Motion to Vacate garnishment based on the fact I had never been served. They have been serving my ex at his home address. He showed up once, and according to the papers I copied at the courthouse, "defendant had no response" and the next time he was supposed to go to court he didn't show. I think that is when they decided to go after me. To make a long story longer, in the Motion I asked the attorneys for the cards to respond to the Motion this next Wed in court. I received a message on my machine tonight when I got home to call these attorneys.."they have very important information for me" I am sooo curious as to what that could be...but I will not know til Monday. Any guesses on your part?? I find this all so wonderful that folks like you would even respond. It is so very kind of you. If you have even a wild guess as to what this might mean please respond. Thank You.

 

[rezguy]

Let someone come along and explain this for you

Revised Codes of WA
RCW 26.16.190
Liability for acts of other spouse.

For all injuries committed by a married person, there shall be no recovery against the separate property of the other spouse except in cases where there would be joint responsibility if the marriage did not exist.

RCW 26.16.030
Community property defined -- Management and control.

Property not acquired or owned, as prescribed in RCW 26.16.010 and 26.16.020, acquired after marriage by either husband or wife or both, is community property. Either spouse, acting alone, may manage and control community property, with a like power of disposition as the acting spouse has over his or her separate property, except:

(1) Neither spouse shall devise or bequeath by will more than one-half of the community property.

(2) Neither spouse shall give community property without the express or implied consent of the other.

(3) Neither spouse shall sell, convey, or encumber the community real property without the other spouse joining in the execution of the deed or other instrument by which the real estate is sold, conveyed, or encumbered, and such deed or other instrument must be acknowledged by both spouses.

(4) Neither spouse shall purchase or contract to purchase community real property without the other spouse joining in the transaction of purchase or in the execution of the contract to purchase.

(5) Neither spouse shall create a security interest other than a purchase money security interest as defined in *RCW 62A.9.107 in, or sell, community household goods, furnishings, or appliances, or a community mobile home unless the other spouse joins in executing the security agreement or bill of sale, if any.

(6) Neither spouse shall acquire, purchase, sell, convey, or encumber the assets, including real estate, or the good will of a business where both spouses participate in its management without the consent of the other: PROVIDED, That where only one spouse participates in such management the participating spouse may, in the ordinary course of such business, acquire, purchase, sell, convey or encumber the assets, including real estate, or the good will of the business without the consent of the nonparticipating spouse.

 

[Alora Foster]

WA

Huh? Can I get that in Laymans terms? Am I responsible for the debt prior to the divorce, but not after? I will let you all know on Monday what the card attorneys say what the "very important information" is. I am very curious, and getting more confused. Sincerely appreciate and printing all responses. Thank you again. It is Sat and I will check in again tonight.

 

[Ladynred]

The legal separation (if there is one in WA) and/or the divorce SEVERS the community property. You are NOT liable for ANY debts incurred by your EX AFTER the date of the legal separation and/or divorce. If your name was NOT on these accounts as a joint card holder, then YOU cannot be held liable for HIS debts. Once the 'community' was legally severed, everything after that, assets and debts, became separate property.

You have more grounds to get rid of this judgment than just lack of service of process if your name was not on these accounts and the debt sued upon was incurred AFTER your divorce.

When you say "I got one", are you saying you were 'assigned' that debt in the divorce decree, or were you an authorized user or joint cardholder ??

The SOL at this point in time is not an issue, they have a judgment. .

 

[Alora Foster]

WA

I believe what I am reading is that I am not responsible for the debt my ex incurred After the divorce UNLESS??? I am joint card holder? The cards were created back in the 70's when we often signed both contracts. The card statements (I copied from courthouse), I was not getting them (they were awarded him in divorce & mailed to his address alone). The statements have both our names on them, though mine was still listed in my married name. Can I verbally ASK the attorneys to find out what the original application said? Or, just because my name shows on the card statement should I assume I signed as joint cardholder? If I AM a joint cardholder...does that mean I am responsible even if I was unaware of the action on the card? And as you state, am I SOL because a "judgement" has already been decided? Does that negate all of the above and I am going to be garnished no matter what? Wow. I am really getting overwhelmed here. Maybe I should just roll over and pay off my ex husbands bills vs being garnished? That is a tough $11,000 to swallow. Keep writing, I am getting queasy but still listening to all. Thank you again.

 

[Ladynred]

This could be a tough one. I realize there is considerable age on these accounts, and that's quite irksome when you've been divorced for a long time.

I believe what I am reading is that I am not responsible for the debt my ex incurred After the divorce UNLESS??? I am joint card holder?

That's pretty much it, yes. The problem is that creditors don't care who got what 'assigned' to them in the divorce, if you're name is still on those cards, then, as far as they're concerned, you are equally liable. Now, that's not to say that you can't negotiate, but it may be tougher.

The statements have both our names on them, though mine was still listed in my married name. Can I verbally ASK the attorneys to find out what the original application said? Or, just because my name shows on the card statement should I assume I signed as joint cardholder?

Yes, you can ask verbally, but you really need to also put your request in writing. For something THAT old, they will not be able to produce ANY contractual proof that you signed anything and it IS your RIGHT to request that kind of proof. Just because your name is on the statements doesn't mean you ARE an joint cardholder, make them prove it.

If I AM a joint cardholder...does that mean I am responsible even if I was unaware of the action on the card?

Contractually, yes, you are liable, but can they PROVE it ? This is exactly why joint accounts, credit cards especially, are such a BAD idea. It all seems like a great idea for a married couple - but its really NOT a good thing to do.

And as you state, am I SOL because a "judgement" has already been decided? Does that negate all of the above and I am going to be garnished no matter what?

No, you're not out of options yet. You state you were never served, you can use that to challenge the judgment as you have. If you had been able to appear in court, things may have been decided differently based on facts you could have presented but never got the chance to do.

Maybe I should just roll over and pay off my ex husbands bills vs being garnished?

Definitely NOT ! No way you should just 'roll over" on this, you need to fight it, get your day in court if you can and ask the lawyers provide you with proof that you are liable for any part of HIS debts.

 

[Alora Foster]

Thank You again for your in depth response. I am going to call the card attorneys tomorrow and see what their "very important information" is. I have a court date this WED. I filed myself a Motion to Vacate the garnishment based on me having never been served. I will let you know Monday PM what the attorneys said. I am willing to keep going to court. I have paperwork to supeana documents and will use it to get documentation if needed. I do not know if I should trust the "other side" to volutarily give me any information. It may not be in their best interest eh? I hope to either delay or hope to get this to where I am not responsible. Mayhaps I am, and if so, I will negotiate as best I can. I am telling everyone at work, my family, kids, everyone about this so maybe someone else will not have this happen to them. You see, I really trusted someone. And that I think hurt the most. When that person KNEW they were being irresponsible, and that it would eventually fall in my lap. All the Parenting Classes say to stay on good terms, for the "Sake of the children" How can one not be bitter and hurt when the other parent does things like this? I will try.
Again, I really appreciate all the time you have put in answering my questions. It has helped me a lot. I feel I may be able to fight this, maybe not win entirely, but fight. I Thank you again.

 

[Alora Foster]

Here is the latest update. I called the card attorney and yes, they said they have sticken the garnishment order on me. (because I had never been served). They sent an official notice to my employer, and I called the courthouse and struck my April 13th court date.However, they did say that this just means I will be served and it all starts over again. Perhaps I will get my day in court. I will wait now and get served. Then I think, I will get a court date, set by them, and I can then supeanea (sp?) them for the documents ie, original card agreement showing if I am truely a joint card holder or just a signer on the account. I am not sure what they will do if they cannot get that info from 1978. If this state has a 3yr statuatory, what does that mean? After 3years if they have not collected, they cannot? Or does that mean, since they found me, and started a judgement, within the 3yrs, they can continue coming for me? I am not sure what this statute means. I wait. This could be a good thing?

Thank you again. I enjoy and appreciate your input in my situation.

 

[Ladynred]

The Statute of Limitations (SOL), which is 3 years on WA for credit cards, runs from the time the account 1st went delinquent and was never again brought current. So, if its been more than 3 years since your EX paid the original creditor on this account, then the SOL has expired.

Its also important to note that IF the creditor FILED this lawsuit before that SOL expired, then they beat it and the SOL won't work as your defense. If they filed (the first time) AFTER the SOL had expired then you can use the expired SOL as your affirmative defense, the debt is time-barred.

I don't know of ANY credit card company that has copies of agreements from 27 years ago and its for damn sure no collection agency or junk debt buyer has it either. There are other documents you can ask for in discovery if it goes that far.

 

[Alora Foster]

Well, first off, I feel a little silly, You see, um, at first when I was reading your wonderful posts, um, I thought SOL, well, meant _ _ _ t out of luck. It dawned on me later in our conversations, that it was an abreviation for Statute of Limitations. I thought you might get a chuckle out of my lack of lingo.

To bring you up to date , The last "date of activity" on these accounts was 6/02 and 7/02. Is this perhaps the beginning of the Statute time? If so, HE has been called to court twice since then. I have not actually been involved til just last week when they sent my employer the garnishment papers. I did file that Order to Vacate due to not being served. In turn, they called me and said they had agreed to vacate the garnishment on me and sent such a notice to my employer. Now comes the tricky written letter I just got tonight in the mail.

They (card attorneys) sent me a letter that says, "I am writing in regards to our telephone conversation today whereby you were informed that an Order Vacating Order of Summary Judgment against Alora S. Stout only, will be entered. In addition, you agreed to strike the hearing on your Motion to Vacate Writ of Garnishment noted for April 13, 2005."

What does this sound like to you? I am referring to the part about the Order of Summary Judgment against (me)(Stout ex-married name) only. Does that sound like it could be referring to the whole thing about the charge cards (hope-a-hope-a-hope) OR is this just referring to the specific Judgement of Garnishment? (most likely huh?)

Do you think I will next be served and then get to go to court? I am reading up on all this document proof info you have sent and plan on asking them to prove themselves to me and the court that I am liable.

Is the a Statute of Limitaions for just my Ex? Because I was not brought in to this til just recently? (which IS within this 3yr time frame if they are using the "date of last activity") I was notified of garnishment last week but I myself have NOT had a judgement filed on ME....yet. (maybe that is comming) (soon).

Keep those cards and letters coming!! I am printing, saving and re-reading all.
Thank you. again and again.

 

[Alora Foster]

P/S question? what does the little red envelope on the side of my post mean? Am I going to expire or something soon? curious.

 

[Ladynred]

"I am writing in regards to our telephone conversation today whereby you were informed that an Order Vacating Order of Summary Judgment against Alora S. Stout only, will be entered

They are basically vacating the judgment against YOU only, it remains against your EX. You should be free and clear.

Now, IF they re-file against you, THEN you will at least have the chance to fight it and have your day in court.

The date of last activity may or may not be the date the debt went delinquent. Call the credit bureau(s) and ask them to tell you what the the 'date of first delinquency' was reported as for the ORIGINAL creditor. By law, they must report that date. If it turns out that the 6/02 and 7/02 dates are right, then the SOL will not expire for a few more months.

 

[Ladynred]

No, the system counts posts to a thread. The 'red' envelope means its a 'hot topic'