ex on tape

[hayleys mom]

What is the name of your state? Ohio
I am finally going to get my day in court, I am going for custody of my daughter (15). I have some documentation from over the years, and how 45% of the time my ex refused me visitation or made demands and threats, how he didn't drive one way or the other on visitation weekends, recently I got him on tape saying that if I didn't see to it that my daughter got to her soccer game on a Sat, that he didn't care what an attorney or judge or anyone said he would not let me have my daughter on the next visitation weekend. that it was his house and no one was going to tell him how to run it, on the same tape I have his niece saying that his mother (her grandmom) told her that my ex admitted to choking our daughter, that he didn't mean it but he was upset, but that his mother refused to admit to it if I took it to court. My question is how much stock is a judge going to put into the tapes and do you think that a judge will grant me custody on these facts. My attorney says yes but says that there is always the possibility he won't. and will my daughter be able to speak with the judge and give her side..? Thank you. Also Ohio is a one party state.

 

[hayleys mom]

Somebody please respond I look to you guys for some input and moral support! Come on be nice it's not that hard is it?

 

[tigger22472]

What is the name of your state? Ohio
I am finally going to get my day in court, I am going for custody of my daughter (15). I have some documentation from over the years, and how 45% of the time my ex refused me visitation or made demands and threats,


****If it's just your word against his and documentation (meaning you writing it down but no other proof) then it'll be tough

how he didn't drive one way or the other on visitation weekends, recently I got him on tape saying that if I didn't see to it that my daughter got to her soccer game on a Sat, that he didn't care what an attorney or judge or anyone said he would not let me have my daughter on the next visitation weekend. that it was his house and no one was going to tell him how to run it,


****He's not in violation unless he actually does refuse visitation and you have to have proof


on the same tape I have his niece saying that his mother (her grandmom) told her that my ex admitted to choking our daughter, that he didn't mean it but he was upset, but that his mother refused to admit to it if I took it to court.


**** That's his niece and not his daughter. Just as if he beat up a girlfriend or even you... that's still not his child and that's what you have to prove, that he's a danger to the child


My question is how much stock is a judge going to put into the tapes and do you think that a judge will grant me custody on these facts. My attorney says yes but says that there is always the possibility he won't. and will my daughter be able to speak with the judge and give her side..? Thank you. Also Ohio is a one party state.

****I don't think it'll hold much water myself. Some judge won't even listen to such things and other while they listen would do little about it. Some could argue that people simply say things when they are mad. I just don't see what little you have here and have on tape as doing anything

 

[hayleys mom]

Tigger, My daughter did report the choking to her school counselors and the sheriff, making a police report, so its really not as if its hearsay, it did happen and of course my ex denied it to cps and the sheriff, that is why I said the niece was on tape, to prove he did do it and admitted doing it to his mother. and the other about not allowing me visitation has been an on going thing unfortunately I believed him when his wife said their attorney said my visitation with my daughter was just that, my time with my daughter not my daughters time with me and that meant I had to accomadate her schedule which means for years now I have not been able to make any plans on my visitation time except to take my daughter to every event they decided to put her in and my travel distance is 45 minutes away, so on Sat. and Sun. I spend my whole day from 730a until 4 05 5p on the road and taking her all over the place, and most of these things she says they MAKE her do and she has NO choice, and this is also a means for them to try and get me to not get her, they think because I have to trapse all over I will just give up my weekend, and sometimes because of my work I do have to wait and get her late on Sat. You don't know these people they are vindictive and manipulative towards me, they want me out of the picture, but I do what I'm supposed to do I pay my support and I do a lot of extra things too. My ex saying those things on tape is his true personality he thinks he is always right and above the law, thats why I thought it might help my case! Theres a lot of stipulations to this, but thanks for your thoughts.

 

[BelizeBreeze]

What is the name of your state? Ohio
I am finally going to get my day in court, I am going for custody of my daughter (15). I have some documentation from over the years, and how 45% of the time my ex refused me visitation or made demands and threats, how he didn't drive one way or the other on visitation weekends, recently I got him on tape saying that if I didn't see to it that my daughter got to her soccer game on a Sat, that he didn't care what an attorney or judge or anyone said he would not let me have my daughter on the next visitation weekend. that it was his house and no one was going to tell him how to run it, on the same tape I have his niece saying that his mother (her grandmom) told her that my ex admitted to choking our daughter, that he didn't mean it but he was upset, but that his mother refused to admit to it if I took it to court. My question is how much stock is a judge going to put into the tapes and do you think that a judge will grant me custody on these facts. My attorney says yes but says that there is always the possibility he won't. and will my daughter be able to speak with the judge and give her side..? Thank you. Also Ohio is a one party state.

First, your attorney is an idiot to even suggest an outcome. Your attorney doesn't know anymore than we do, What a judge will decide.

Second, the grandmother's testimony is hearsay. She did not witness the events and her third-party utterance won't be allowed in.

That leaves the tape. First, you never said where the Custodial parent lives. Second, a fact of divorce is that the grounds NOT to award the mother custody are usually much greater than not awarding the father custody. Therefore, by you being denied custody in the beginning, you have a much greater burden to overcome.

Third, disputes like this happen all the time. As you've been told, merely the threat of doing something is not enough to overturn what the court must view as the best interest of the court.

There is no danger to the child, no proof that the custodial parent is a danger to anyone and no significant changes of circumstances rising to the level sufficient to also change custody.

The tape is questionable period. And although Ohio is a one-party state, if you read the ENTIRE statute you'll find there are many expections to its' legality, including tortious intent.

There is no greater tort than divorce and it's accompanying actions.

 

[trustknow1]

Not trying to be your big brother or dad here, just some thoughts on surveillance, (covert or not) from 20yrs of experience.

Most of us are impressed at first with "spying", because it is "cool". If you try it out, it makes you feel powerful and in control. If guided by emotions, you can quickly change things in your life that you are unable to repair.

Legal issues abound and surely will be posted. Is it legal, is it your proof for court....or documentation you are a stalker, etc.
I think the impact on bonding with people you care about is what matters after the dust settles.

If anybody still wonders if it is really possible to "get anything on anybody", the answer is ...yes. But having the power to do something does not always mean it is wise to use it.

Ten years ago, I used my skills to verify if what my wife appeared to be doing, was actually true or not, before I took the actions that would change my daughter's world.
All of the boyfriends, lies and deceit were true.

I did the same after the divorce. I have many audio tapes going back to age of 2yr for daughter (now 12yrs). They range from her personal accounts of being left alone with various boyfriend's that tormented her, to detailed versions of mom's threats of severe punishment if she revealed things to me like ...being left alone, moms overnight boyfriends, cheating on homework, etc.

I also have recordings of her lying, endangering my daughter, ignoring medical treatment, exposing her to sexually inappropriate behavior, various financial deception, etc.

Was all of it done to address a child crisis...yes. Does any of it suggest it was stalking,obsession,vindictive,jealousy,or any other self-generated behavior attached to my ex? No.
Would the "evidence" objectively project convincing documentation of willful endangerment or neglect of our child or financial deceit of court orders for divorce. Could I expose her for what she "really" does? In a heartbeat. Will I do it...only as a last resort.

Have I ever used the info or advised ex of what I have? NO.
Does she think she has always fooled me. YES
Do I "set her up", or fail to react properly to problems she creates, just to generate "evidence"....NEVER

Why haven't I used any of this, or advised her it exists? Because my goal is not to "Destroy my child's mother", or "prove anything" I just want to be a good Dad to a happy daughter. Nothing more. It is only there in case an emergency ever requires using it. My attorney encouraged me to continue to keep evidence of the truth, should I ever be required to defend myself.

"Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer". That is my goal. I want to know the truth about what is happening to my daughter and be sure she is safe... on a regular basis. That is all I want...and I want to have it without creating any turmoil that will result in making my daughter's life tougher than it already is. Following a few rules is all that is required to make it happen.

-Never do anything that could allow the ex to discover I have more info than she thinks I do.

-The only info of interest is that which impacts my daughter.
If I was interested in my ex or her life, I would still be married to her. The less I have to know about her, the better.

-Any actions I take based on info I obtain on my own must be carried out without announcing the way I got the info.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[stealth2]

trustknow1 makes good points.

 

[LdiJ]

I would also like to point out the that child is 15, and wants to live with her mother. That is enough at least to justify the custody case. It may or may not be enough to win one, but its enough to justify trying. Particularly since this father actually did choke the child. Mom really does have to try.

 

[tigger22472]

trustknow1 makes good points.

I was going to say the same thing. We do the same thing here. My husband's ex has no clue what we have on her and know about. Just a while back it was confirmed, once again, the bad mouthing going on at mom's about dad and I. We always knew but it was confirmed and heard more things. My husband was ready to go file for custody over that and a few other things that were going on.

In the end this is his daughter's mother, and despite even the fact of his daughter telling us her mom's a liar and just short of calling her own mother a 'whore' she loves her mom and that's the point. Currently they have 50/50 even though his daughter is here more than at her mom's. No matter who 'won' a custody battle their daughter still loses. And that's the most important thing and what keeps my husband from filing.

We do counter damage and we have documentation, evidence and witnesses, including I'm sure professionals (teachers have expressed things) if warranted. People come to us and tell us things that we don't even ask about so mom has absolutely no clue what we have or what we know and she won't... until the time, if ever, is necessary.

Using things to get your own satisfaction and to get your way, isn't always what is best for the children.

 

[CJane]

No matter who 'won' a custody battle their daughter still loses.

<SNIP>

Using things to get your own satisfaction and to get your way, isn't always what is best for the children.

Amen to that! I might not be able to stand the sight of my ex and think he's the most pompous, self-righteous, hypocritical a$$ in the world. But the kids love him, he's not a horrible father, and any change in the physical time that we each spend with the kids might make one of the grownup's lives easier, but it wouldn't be good for the kids.

Wish he felt the same...

Hayley's mom ~ Honestly? I don't think you have much to go on as far as a change in custody. It's unfortunate, but there ya go.

 

[hayleys mom]

Thank you all for your comments amd advice, and my ex was granted custody on a default, I had actually had a clause in our divorce that because my ex had changed the locks on our house and I had been with him for 14 yrs and never allowed to work, that in 3 mos. I would get my daughter and she would then live with me. I had to find work and a place to live, for me my oldest daughter whom was 3 mos. shy of 18 and my grandson (3mos) and at this point I was still responsible for my oldest daughter (whom my ex also threw out of the home) she was finishing school and working, and then My daughter hayley was all of 22 mos. Myself, my oldest and grandson stayed with a friend I got work and was in the process of getting my baby when my ex takes me to court and says I abandoned our daughter even though I had her with me at all free times, I had a legal aid attorney whom when I went to to get help on this said this would not be possible to fight in court before my claus was up, I ended up getting shared custody or parenting with Hayley living one month with me and one month with the father, with the other parent getting the weekends, then when school started at 5 yrs, since I lived 45 minutes away from ex, his attorney called and said that one parent had to have custody in place because of our distance apart, my ex and I talked about sending Hayley to a christian sch. and he would pay but I had to give him temporary custody, he then after 3 yrs filed for full custody and support from me and won and he was supposed to give custody back to me when christian school was finishd in eighth grade but got married in the meantime, and its been a battle since with ex and sm, whom has all the say..I don;t bash my ex, when he choked hayley I told her it was saddening that he felt it had to come to that but that I knew he loved her.. but its getting to the point that I am doing ALL the compromising and my daughter wants out of her fathers household because he is not there and she isn't even allowed to conversate with him one on one sm has to be go between always even with me and this is why I am going for custody, she wants it, and I have to try, at least I may get shared custody and a modification on the visitation, as it stands I barely get time with my child and we actually still manage to be very close I give her something her father doesn't understanding and affection, we talk about things that bother her etc. her father says you are a kid you don't get to have feelings or an opinion same way for me when I was married to him, very arrogant, selfish man. So I wasn't denied custody, at that time things were best for my daughter, it was the hardest thing I ever did, but circumstances have changed, and I feel confidant that I can win custody of my daughter.. Thanks for your opinions and sorry this was so long.

 

[lquid_user]

choking

Here in Minnesota choking just became a felony crime, and our little town just got it's first perpetrator of this higher level crime less than a week later.

Before the law began Aug. 1, choking typically brought a misdemeanor assault charge, said County Attorney **** *******. It might have been elevated if investigators showed the assailant was threatening to kill the victim.
Minnesota and other states passed the law because of a groundbreaking study in the mid-1990s by the Illinois Criminal Justice Information Authority. It showed that women strangled in the past are more likely to become a murder victim by the repeat assailant. When a strangling victim does not die, future episodes likely will be more brutal, the study said.

****** said domestic assault by strangulation applies even without evident injury to the victim. It's like pointing a loaded gun at a person with the safety off.

They have begun to take this very seriously here.

best of luck.

 

[hayleys mom]

Thanks I wanted to add that little ditty, my paralegal found out that even uttering a threat of physical violence is considered domestic violence now, at home, at work and at school. I'm not bashing my ex but a 190lb man choking a 110lb child is putting that child at risk for death. i know because he used to choke me. and the battered shelter said if he would get me in the right place a small amount of pressure would send you to the other side. My daughter has always felt safe but shes older now and his temper (which he claimed to have lost...accidently) makes him dangerous and I don't want any flashbacks especially when she went to sm first and she told my daughter to forget the incident, he was just upset...I'm not going to sit back and let his next upset accidently kill her. Thank you for your support, It means alot.

 

[BelizeBreeze]

Thanks I wanted to add that little ditty, my paralegal found out that even uttering a threat of physical violence is considered domestic violence now, at home, at work and at school. I'm not bashing my ex but a 190lb man choking a 110lb child is putting that child at risk for death. i know because he used to choke me. and the battered shelter said if he would get me in the right place a small amount of pressure would send you to the other side. My daughter has always felt safe but shes older now and his temper (which he claimed to have lost...accidently) makes him dangerous and I don't want any flashbacks especially when she went to sm first and she told my daughter to forget the incident, he was just upset...I'm not going to sit back and let his next upset accidently kill her. Thank you for your support, It means alot.

Did your shelter also tell you that I can teach a 90 lb child how to kill a 300 lb man with one strike?

 

[hayleys mom]

You know I don't expect you to just take my side, but that comment is just uncalled for, why don't you just say you think I'm making too much out of it. First of all my daughter would never strike her father or I, being choked or not...He did it, and he should be repremanded accordingly, why is it the ncp is told the law this and the law that but the cp can come close to getting away with murder? The law state you hit or threaten thats domestic violence or abuse, you do it you pay! It isn't like he spanked her or something he thinks shes too old to be spanked but its ok to be choked..I don't think so.I suppose if I said he broke her nose and knocked 2 teeth out you say, oh well you know how teenagers are, and yes I do I used to be one. Bottom line is He CANNOT control his temper, and I don't want my daughter at the recieving end of that ever again. And I suggested counseling to him and he said that there isn't anything wrong with him. I went to counseling 6 years by myself behind him, he NEVER put his hands on my older daughter like that and I never would have believed he would my youngest, believe me things would have been different. Do you choke your kids, has anyone choked your kids, probably not or you wouldn't send a smart response if you were in my shoes, regardless my daughter expects me to protect here, she doesn't feel safe, so that's what I'm gonna do..Thanks for nothing!