I agreed to let the children go over there for visits. It's actually in the modification papers. But in the state of Indiana there are NO grandparents rights. If the children come back unruly and defiant, then I don't have to let them go over there. All I have to do is show that it is in their best interest NOT to go any longer. The grandpa is the only reason I let them go. I have tolerated the grandma for many years. I have listened to her call my 8yr old stupid and tell me she thinks something is wrong with her. I've heard her curse them and belittle them. Believe me, it wouldn't take much for the judge to say no visitation. They live in a 2 BR Trailer, and the grandma sleeps on the couch, the grandpa in the back BR and the 2nd BR was the girls dads room. They left it how it was and the girls sleep on a futon in the LR with the grandma. If I say it's not a healthy environment for them, the judge will back me.
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Father is in Prison, can I terminate his parental rights?
- Thread starter krischris
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BelizeBreeze
Senior Member
Then you are about to have a very rude awakening.
Is that so. Well, I've been through this once before, and I know what I'm saying. The environment they are in over there is not healthy for them. The judge told me that I didn't have to let them go once. So tell me why you think "I'm in for such a rude awakening"?
This is actually from this site:
Do grandparents have visitation rights?
The simple answer is "yes, but". The "but" is due to the limitations under which grandparent visitation can be ordered by a court. Grandparents typically may join an action between the parents, or even start an independent action, for the purpose of obtaining a court order for visitation with grandchildren.
The problem is that the grandparent may have to prove to the court that harm will occur to the grandchild in the absence of visitation. Since it is typically viewed that parents have a fundamental right to the care, custody and management of their child, only a compelling interest would be sufficient to allow a state (via its courts) to interfere with the parent's right to raise his/her child without such interference. This may be difficult to prove, since the grandparent has the obligation to prove that harm will result to the child's health and welfare should the court not order the parents to allow visitation with the grandparent. This is a difficult burden of proof to sustain.
And according to Indiana Code IC 31-17-5-7
Modification of order
31-17-5-7 Sec. 7. The court may modify an order granting or denying visitation rights whenever modification would serve the best interests of the child.
Indiana Code also states that the children's parents are deceased, which they clearly are NOT, and they have to be able to prove that it is in THEIR, meaning the children, best interest, which it clearly is NOT!
So tell me again, why you think I am in for a very rude awakening? Please, I'd love to hear it.
BelizeBreeze
Senior Member
Yes, that's so.
Look at the quoted part of your message then look at my SPECIFIC reply to THAT PART ONLY!
Look at the quoted part of your message then look at my SPECIFIC reply to THAT PART ONLY!
If she wants to go in front of the judge that sentenced her son to 30 years in prison to try and prove her case as to why she thinks I'm not fit in raising MY children and she should be allowed visits, then let her. I'm not a cold hearted person, and I'm not going to do this out of spite, I'm doing this for my children and what is in their best interest. If it is affecting their well-being than yes, I will do something about it. If mentally it is affecting them, I will do something about it. And if that means to sever visitation with the grandmother than so be it.
My children's well-being and their mental health is far more important to me than her!
My children's well-being and their mental health is far more important to me than her!
BelizeBreeze
Senior Member
If you KNOW the laws in your state, why are you here asking for advice.
Simply put, you said. "If I say it's not a healthy environment for them, the judge will back me."
and I said you are in for a very rude awakening.
now since you KNOW the law, cite the specific statute which requires the judge to 'Back You" if you make a claim that the grandparen'ts environment is not healthy.
ConcerndStepmom
Member
The fact of the matter is. You claim that the grandparents house is UNHEALTHY. But you ALLOW your kids to visit the grandparents in THEIR so called unhealthy HOME. Although grandparents do not have rights. You have given them the right to fight for visitation if you was to stop allowing them to see your children. Because you have allowed the children to have and maintain an on-going close relationship with their grandparents. That right there my dear is where you will have a hard time convincing the judge that the grandparents home is unhealthy.
IC 31-17-5-7
Modification of order
31-17-5-7 Sec. 7. The court may modify an order granting or denying visitation rights whenever modification would serve the best interests of the child.
There is no statute that says the judge will back me. I was only stating that he would because it is IN THE BEST INTERESTS OF THE CHILDREN.
That being said, I'm not asking advice on grandparents visitation. If you had read the entire thread you would know this. I was only answering a question that someone asked, and you had to give your opinion on what I said. Everyone is entitled their own opinion even if it's not right.
Modification of order
31-17-5-7 Sec. 7. The court may modify an order granting or denying visitation rights whenever modification would serve the best interests of the child.
There is no statute that says the judge will back me. I was only stating that he would because it is IN THE BEST INTERESTS OF THE CHILDREN.
That being said, I'm not asking advice on grandparents visitation. If you had read the entire thread you would know this. I was only answering a question that someone asked, and you had to give your opinion on what I said. Everyone is entitled their own opinion even if it's not right.
BelizeBreeze
Senior Member
And when you can't find the specific statute, read IC 31-17-5
I DID read the entire thread. And you have given the court AND the grandparents the right to petition by providing the opposing party proof of the best interest criteria.
YOU allowed visitation to begin and continue.
YOU have not proven a significant change in the circumstances in the grandparent's situation from the time visitation was allowed.
YOU have the burden of proof to provide the ocurt that after acceptance of visitation, the best interests of the child(ren) would NOT be served by continuing.
based on the total facts YOU presented here, the grandparents have a very good case to file for and receive visitation based on INDIANA statutes.
I DID read the entire thread. And you have given the court AND the grandparents the right to petition by providing the opposing party proof of the best interest criteria.
YOU allowed visitation to begin and continue.
YOU have not proven a significant change in the circumstances in the grandparent's situation from the time visitation was allowed.
YOU have the burden of proof to provide the ocurt that after acceptance of visitation, the best interests of the child(ren) would NOT be served by continuing.
based on the total facts YOU presented here, the grandparents have a very good case to file for and receive visitation based on INDIANA statutes.
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I ALLOW my children to visit because their grandfather is about to DIE! They spend 1-2 nights about 2 times a month. HE, the grandpa, is the only reason I ALLOW them to go. I trust him to ensure the safety and well being of my children. As I said before, when he is gone, so is the visitation. He is not on his death bed and not capable of taking care of them. He has cancer and could go at anytime.
The judge is the one who divorced us, he is the one who sentenced their dad to 30 yrs in prison, and he is the judge that did the modification on custody. He knows the case very well. I'm not saying that there isn't a chance that he would allow for visitation to continue, I'm only saying that he knows the case and he will do what is in the best interest of the children. He didn't order me to take my children to the prison so they could see there dad. In fact, he told me that he wouldn't put that burden on me.
ConcerndStepmom
Member
Bolded areas of your post: I did not mention anything about you taking your children to visit at a prison. So the last sentence is irrelevent to what I had responded too.
The judge done the divorce.. so.. he didn't take away the grandparents visitation rights. Which you claim in one of your post he INCLUDED it in the modification papers.
The judge sentenced your "EX" to 30 years in prison.. again .. so.. he DID NOT sentence the GRANDPARENTS of whom are included in the modification papers as you have stated.
NOW.. you claim grandpa can go anytime due to having cancer. Earlier you claim to trust him to ensure the safety and well being of your children. Correct me if I got this wrong but WHAT you really meant to say was that HE IS on his death bed and NOT able to take care of them?? Which means that GRANDMA is the one who is taking care of your children while they're in her home. Of whom you have given the right to fight for visitation once you STOP visitation when grandpa dies.
You said:
YOU allowed visitation to begin and continue.
YOU have not proven a significant change in the circumstances in the grandparent's situation from the time visitation was allowed.
YOU have the burden of proof to provide the ocurt that after acceptance of visitation, the best interests of the child(ren) would NOT be served by continuing.
The court papers say reasonable visitation. I think I'm being reasonable about it. The judge was aware of the grandfathers condition and I told the judge then that he was the only reason I will let the visitation continue.
The significant change would be when the grandfather passes away and the grandmother is left alone to care for the children.
The best interest would be served by NOT continuing after he passes.
This is from a Indiana Law website:
How will the court determine if it is in the best interests of the child to order grandparent visitation?
The court will consider any factors relating to the child, the parent, and the grandparent. Specifically, the court will consider whether the grandparent has had (or has tried to have) meaningful contact with the grandchild. The court will presume that a fit parent’s decisions are in the best interests of the child. Thus, the court will give special weight to the parent’s wishes and to whether the parent has allowed some visitation with the grandchild.
The court will look first at the relationship between the grandchild and the grandparent, but the court will also look at all of the circumstances, including the relationship between the grandparent and the parent.
I have allowed some visitation with the grandparents. The court papers do not state how much time I have to allow. Only reasonable visitation. The only other contact that they have is her calling the day before she wants to get them and even then she doesn't ask to speak to them. Any other time through the week she does not call.
Basically it all comes down to what is in the best interests of the children. In the end, it all comes down to that. That is a decision that the judge will have to make. It doesn't matter what you think, it's his decision. So what difference will it make if we keep going back and forth trying to prove our point. None! I never asked for anyones opinion or advice on grandparents rights to visitation. This whole thread started because I was seeking advice on how to terminate the fathers rights because he was convicted of a Class A Felony of Battery that resulted in the death of a CHILD under the age of 18. The child was 18 months old. He will not provide and financial support or any other type of support for that matter. He made the choice to make the decisions he made and end up where he is. My children are not going to suffer for his actions. They will not be exposed to a prison environment, they will not be emotionally abused by the grandmother and they will not be the middle man for my ex husband to try and get back at me. There are a lot of other factors to be considered in this matter. Ones that you do not know, nor do I care to share with you.
All to often children are put back into an environment that is not healthy for them to be in. Children are returned to drug addicted mothers and fathers, abusive parents, and unfit living conditions because the parents have rights too. I will fight till the day I die to ensure that my children are protected from any sort of abuse.
I thank you for your opinion and I will take the advice you gave into consideration when the time comes.
YOU allowed visitation to begin and continue.
YOU have not proven a significant change in the circumstances in the grandparent's situation from the time visitation was allowed.
YOU have the burden of proof to provide the ocurt that after acceptance of visitation, the best interests of the child(ren) would NOT be served by continuing.
The court papers say reasonable visitation. I think I'm being reasonable about it. The judge was aware of the grandfathers condition and I told the judge then that he was the only reason I will let the visitation continue.
The significant change would be when the grandfather passes away and the grandmother is left alone to care for the children.
The best interest would be served by NOT continuing after he passes.
This is from a Indiana Law website:
How will the court determine if it is in the best interests of the child to order grandparent visitation?
The court will consider any factors relating to the child, the parent, and the grandparent. Specifically, the court will consider whether the grandparent has had (or has tried to have) meaningful contact with the grandchild. The court will presume that a fit parent’s decisions are in the best interests of the child. Thus, the court will give special weight to the parent’s wishes and to whether the parent has allowed some visitation with the grandchild.
The court will look first at the relationship between the grandchild and the grandparent, but the court will also look at all of the circumstances, including the relationship between the grandparent and the parent.
I have allowed some visitation with the grandparents. The court papers do not state how much time I have to allow. Only reasonable visitation. The only other contact that they have is her calling the day before she wants to get them and even then she doesn't ask to speak to them. Any other time through the week she does not call.
Basically it all comes down to what is in the best interests of the children. In the end, it all comes down to that. That is a decision that the judge will have to make. It doesn't matter what you think, it's his decision. So what difference will it make if we keep going back and forth trying to prove our point. None! I never asked for anyones opinion or advice on grandparents rights to visitation. This whole thread started because I was seeking advice on how to terminate the fathers rights because he was convicted of a Class A Felony of Battery that resulted in the death of a CHILD under the age of 18. The child was 18 months old. He will not provide and financial support or any other type of support for that matter. He made the choice to make the decisions he made and end up where he is. My children are not going to suffer for his actions. They will not be exposed to a prison environment, they will not be emotionally abused by the grandmother and they will not be the middle man for my ex husband to try and get back at me. There are a lot of other factors to be considered in this matter. Ones that you do not know, nor do I care to share with you.
All to often children are put back into an environment that is not healthy for them to be in. Children are returned to drug addicted mothers and fathers, abusive parents, and unfit living conditions because the parents have rights too. I will fight till the day I die to ensure that my children are protected from any sort of abuse.
I thank you for your opinion and I will take the advice you gave into consideration when the time comes.
You act as if I'm the bad guy here.
Yes, the judge did put in the modification that there would be reasonable visitation with the grandparents at MY discretion and at my request. I was given the choice to have it put in.
Maybe I did OPEN the door for them to be able to fight for visitation. That was a choice that I made based upon the fact that they lived there with their father while he was going through the trial. He was not allowed to be alone with them. My children have suffered enough because of what HE did and I didn't want to traumatize them anymore by cutting all ties at that time. Circumstances have changed and because of that I DO have the right to ask the court to reconsider the visitation. The time spent with the grandparents has dropped dramatically. The grandfather is not getting any better, but that does not mean he is not capable of taking care of them while they are there. If he was to die while they were there, I'd be there in a heartbeat to pick them up. Just like the day their father was taken away in handcuffs from the court room and put behind bars.
You or I could get killed walking out of our front door today, but that doesn't mean that we are not capable at this moment of taking care of our children. Things can be and are usually unpredictable. But if there is a significant change in circumstances and there IS something I can do, I will.
Yes, the judge did put in the modification that there would be reasonable visitation with the grandparents at MY discretion and at my request. I was given the choice to have it put in.
Maybe I did OPEN the door for them to be able to fight for visitation. That was a choice that I made based upon the fact that they lived there with their father while he was going through the trial. He was not allowed to be alone with them. My children have suffered enough because of what HE did and I didn't want to traumatize them anymore by cutting all ties at that time. Circumstances have changed and because of that I DO have the right to ask the court to reconsider the visitation. The time spent with the grandparents has dropped dramatically. The grandfather is not getting any better, but that does not mean he is not capable of taking care of them while they are there. If he was to die while they were there, I'd be there in a heartbeat to pick them up. Just like the day their father was taken away in handcuffs from the court room and put behind bars.
You or I could get killed walking out of our front door today, but that doesn't mean that we are not capable at this moment of taking care of our children. Things can be and are usually unpredictable. But if there is a significant change in circumstances and there IS something I can do, I will.
No one is treating YOU like the bad guy. They are simply trying to explain that the AGREED grandparent visitation will open the door for grandma to cause problems after grandpa dies. As far as the case being heard by the same Judge that sentence their son to 30 years in prison, you might want to read up on "change of venue". It could be easily argued that the case should be heard by a different Judge should hear the case due to the prior relationship the current Judge has to the case and the parties involved.