• FreeAdvice has a new Terms of Service and Privacy Policy, effective May 25, 2018.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our Terms of Service and use of cookies.

Financial Affairs - Payments Within 90 Days

  • Thread starter Thread starter mightfile
  • Start date Start date

Accident - Bankruptcy - Criminal Law / DUI - Business - Consumer - Employment - Family - Immigration - Real Estate - Tax - Traffic - Wills   Please click a topic or scroll down for more.

M

mightfile

Guest
What is the name of your state? CA

Hello again..

On the statement of financial affairs, it asks for payments made to creditors in 90 days. I got the impression that secured payments werent neccessary to list. I keep getting the feeling they are...

Ive made 3 payments of 349.30 in the 90 days pre filing. Thats not much over 600, but is nonetheless. These payments were also the last few leading up to lien satisfaction, which makes me feel like I should list the satisfied loan on the recently closed accounts section.

Can anyone help me out here? SHould I ammend the fin affairs? Just filed 11/19, plenty of time left.. kinda
 
Last edited:


Ladynred

Senior Member
Secured debts are not the issue. If you filed a statement of intentions to keep the secured property, it is expected that you'll keep up those payments. Its the UNsecured creditors that are the concern here. Your secured debts/payments are listed differently and on different forms. I think you can leave it alone.
 
M

mightfile

Guest
My issue is that the lien was satisfied just before my bk was filed. I have complete ownership of the vehicle now and will NOT be making payments anymore, nor did I list it in the statement of intentions, because it is no longer property securing a debt...

The lien was satisfied about 5 days prior to filing.
The paid off loan seems like it would be considered a closed account.

Here is the code which specifies what transfers teh trustee may not avoid. Sorry its so long...Can anyone translate something in here that applies to my situation:


(c) The trustee may not avoid under this section a transfer -

(1) to the extent that such transfer was -
(A) intended by the debtor and the creditor to or for whose
benefit such transfer was made to be a contemporaneous exchange for new value given to the debtor; and
(B) in fact a substantially contemporaneous exchange;

(2) to the extent that such transfer was -
(A) in payment of a debt incurred by the debtor in the
ordinary course of business or financial affairs of the debtor
and the transferee;
(B) made in the ordinary course of business or financial
affairs of the debtor and the transferee; and
(C) made according to ordinary business terms;

(3) that creates a security interest in property acquired by
the debtor -
(A) to the extent such security interest secures new value
that was -
(i) given at or after the signing of a security agreement
that contains a description of such property as collateral;
(ii) given by or on behalf of the secured party under such
agreement;
(iii) given to enable the debtor to acquire such property;
and
(iv) in fact used by the debtor to acquire such property;
and
(B) that is perfected on or before 20 days after the debtor
receives possession of such property;

(4) to or for the benefit of a creditor, to the extent that,
after such transfer, such creditor gave new value to or for the
benefit of the debtor -
(A) not secured by an otherwise unavoidable security
interest; and
(B) on account of which new value the debtor did not make an otherwise unavoidable transfer to or for the benefit of such
creditor;

(5) that creates a perfected security interest in inventory or
a receivable or the proceeds of either, except to the extent that the aggregate of all such transfers to the transferee caused a reduction, as of the date of the filing of the petition and to the prejudice of other creditors holding unsecured claims, of any amount by which the debt secured by such security interest exceeded the value of all security interests for such debt on the later of -
(A)(i) with respect to a transfer to which subsection
(b)(4)(A) of this section applies, 90 days before the date of
the filing of the petition; or
(ii) with respect to a transfer to which subsection (b)(4)(B)
of this section applies, one year before the date of the filing
of the petition; or
(B) the date on which new value was first given under the
security agreement creating such security interest;
(6) that is the fixing of a statutory lien that is not
avoidable under section 545 of this title;
(7) to the extent such transfer was a bona fide payment of a
debt to a spouse, former spouse, or child of the debtor, for
alimony to, maintenance for, or support of such spouse or child,
in connection with a separation agreement, divorce decree or
other order of a court of record, determination made in
accordance with State or territorial law by a governmental unit,
or property settlement agreement, but not to the extent that such
debt -
(A) is assigned to another entity, voluntarily, by operation
of law, or otherwise; or
(B) includes a liability designated as alimony, maintenance,
or support, unless such liability is actually in the nature of
alimony, maintenance or support; or
(8) if, in a case filed by an individual debtor whose debts are
primarily consumer debts, the aggregate value of all property
that constitutes or is affected by such transfer is less than
$600.
 

Ladynred

Senior Member
Sorry. .misunderstood. Yes, its a closed account. However, now that you have 100% equity in it, can it still be exempted as an asset ? By paying it off, you could possibly lose it if the equity is more than the exemption.
 
M

mightfile

Guest
-----------
pre apology for long post, again, but this time theres nothing pasted into it.... :)
-----------

I'm making use of our wildcard exemption in cali. Since I'm not a homeowner, I'm using our second set of exemptions which specifies a wildcard of $900 plus anything up to the limit of the homestead/burial plot exemption, somewhere around $15,000, to be used for any property.

My vehicle is only worth about $6000. kbb says 7400 trade in for good cond, but i have an $1800 estimate for damage to the side, so I specified $6000 on the schedules to be safe.

Its definitely covered. I found a case supporting a debtor who exempted her car with a loan balance of over $10,000. She got to keep it, even after first specifying the wrong exemptions. She updated her petitions post 341mtg using the set I'm using(2), kept her car, and got the secured loan discharged! I find that to be almost unbelievable but it is in an effort to be fair for the non-homeowner. Under system1 you can exempt up to $50,000 in your home!

Anyway, I was thinking I should list each of the 3 payments as payments in 90 days just to make sure the trustee doesnt think im hiding anything, which I'm not. Also the loan as a closed account.

After my november payment was made, my parents paid the balance of the loan at about $1270. The loan was supposed to be paid off by March but I couldnt delay/avoid creditors aanymore. I didnt want to risk my father's credit being affected by filing with an almost paid off loan cosigned with him, so I reccomended he pay it from his own checking account. I plan on telling the trustee, if he asks, that he did it on his own accord after hearing i was going to file, to not risk his impeccable credit...

I dont see how it would be something for them to scrutinize, since it wasnt me who paid the 1270, and satisfying the lien gives the trustee even easier access to the property.
 
Last edited:
M

mightfile

Guest
ok a lightbulb finally illuminated over my head while reading over the forms a little more and maybe just the closed account needs to be listed. I think the payments to creditors in 90 days may mean payments to creditors listed on the schedules. Since the account no longer exists, the bank isnt a creditor anymore. Maybe this wont fly with a trustee, but it sounds like a fair excuse for leaving it off.

So maybe I should leave the payments out of the 90 day section like you suggested, ladynred, unless the trustee asks about it at 341 and has me ammend it..
 

Elmo-1

Member
First off, minimum payments are *never* preference payments. The part of the Code that applies to your situation is the following:

(B) made in the ordinary course of business or financial
affairs of the debtor and the transferee; and
(C) made according to ordinary business terms;

If your dad loaned you the money he has to be listed as a creditor in your petition.

However, what may be more of a concern now is that you no longer have $349.30/month in expenses. This could flip your case into a Ch13 if you can't find enough expenses to cover the loss.

Go to the following site to make sure you didn't forget anything:

http://www.ca-bankruptcy-attorneys.com/calculators/expense_calculator.html

Print out or copy your expenses from the above site and plug them into the spreadsheet at this site:

http://www.conjur.com/misc/7vs13LatestRev2.xls

There you can see where you stand regarding Ch 7 vs Ch 13. You can also adjust expenses to see what it would take to avoid Ch13.
 

Find the Right Lawyer for Your Legal Issue!

Fast, Free, and Confidential
Top