fired day before paid holiday off, while on vacation, no reason

[mudmantim]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Michigan

Hello, I'm new here and have a few questions about my firing.

Here's the specifics:

Fired while on vacation (last day of vacation) Friday, September 4th via the phone.

September 7th, Labor Day, a scheduled paid day off because of the holiday. I would have to have gone in September 8th to get paid for this.

HR could not find a reason why I was fired, only thing that they could dig up was that I did not graduate the Mentor Program...but this was 11 months prior when I passed out of it.
They just told me that the new owner was an 'at-will" employer and he was exercising this with me.

HR said that they fight unemployment with everybody (which I have been told by different ex-employees that this is the case), but since they could not find a reason why I was getting fired they would not fight it with me. I have been getting it ever since (no issues), they did not even respond to the unemployment office regarding this.

I do have a CSC 4th degree on my record, and a larceny; both from about 20 years ago. Not sure if this has anything to do with my getting fired or not, but I was hired in through a program with the company, State of Michigan, and community college because of this.


I am to understand that an employee cannot be fired prior to getting paid for something that they are going to earn; like a pension. Would my paid day off for Labor Day, and getting fired before I got paid for it count as the same thing?

I was hired with them knowing about my background, it's the reason I was accepted into the program. Would this be a contract, of which they would have broken, which I am to understand is also against the law regarding "at-will"?

Also, just 10 days after I was fired my wife had a miscarriage; not sure if this was stress related or not because of me losing my job. Would this matter?

 

[Silverplum]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Michigan

Hello, I'm new here and have a few questions about my firing.

Here's the specifics:

Fired while on vacation (last day of vacation) Friday, September 4th via the phone.

September 7th, Labor Day, a scheduled paid day off because of the holiday. I would have to have gone in September 8th to get paid for this.

HR could not find a reason why I was fired, only thing that they could dig up was that I did not graduate the Mentor Program...but this was 11 months prior when I passed out of it.
They just told me that the new owner was an 'at-will" employer and he was exercising this with me.

HR said that they fight unemployment with everybody (which I have been told by different ex-employees that this is the case), but since they could not find a reason why I was getting fired they would not fight it with me. I have been getting it ever since (no issues), they did not even respond to the unemployment office regarding this.

I do have a CSC 4th degree on my record, and a larceny; both from about 20 years ago. Not sure if this has anything to do with my getting fired or not, but I was hired in through a program with the company, State of Michigan, and community college because of this.


I am to understand that an employee cannot be fired prior to getting paid for something that they are going to earn; like a pension. Would my paid day off for Labor Day, and getting fired before I got paid for it count as the same thing?

I was hired with them knowing about my background, it's the reason I was accepted into the program. Would this be a contract, of which they would have broken, which I am to understand is also against the law regarding "at-will"?

Also, just 10 days after I was fired my wife had a miscarriage; not sure if this was stress related or not because of me losing my job. Would this matter?

No, it was not a "contract," and though I am sorry for your loss, the company is not responsible for your wife's miscarriage.

 

[cbg]

I am to understand that an employee cannot be fired prior to getting paid for something that they are going to earn; like a pension. Would my paid day off for Labor Day, and getting fired before I got paid for it count as the same thing?

No. A paid holiday is not a protected benefit. A pension is. It is not even remotely the same thing. And I'm not sure you fully understand the law you are quoting. You cannot be fired SPECIFICALLY FOR THE PURPOSE of preventing you from collecting a protected benefit such as a pension - that does not mean that you cannot be fired for other reasons prior to receiving it. But it's a moot point - even if you could prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that you were fired when you were fired, specifically to prevent you from getting the paid holiday, that would not be illegal.

I was hired with them knowing about my background, it's the reason I was accepted into the program. Would this be a contract, of which they would have broken, which I am to understand is also against the law regarding "at-will"?

Not unless you and they both signed something expressly stating so. At-will is the default - you are an at-will employee unless you sign something saying that you're not. Did you?

Also, just 10 days after I was fired my wife had a miscarriage; not sure if this was stress related or not because of me losing my job. Would this matter?

No. Either your firing was legal or it wasn't. A legal firing does not become illegal retroactively because of future events. Nothing you have posted suggests that your firing was illegal. It may well have been unfair, unwarranted, or both. But that does not make it illegal.

I'm sorry for your loss.

 

[FlyingRon]

I know how it feels. I was fired over the phone while on vacation from a company I worked for for 23 years. There are a lot of low lifes in management all over, but it's not illegal.

 

[mudmantim]

Thanks for the replies. I didn't think there was anything that I could do about his, but a cop buddy of mine keeps saying that I need to get advise on this as he believes that they were in the wrong and broke the law.

The job that I had previous to this one; the boss said we'd have a few weeks of no work (drywall), so every employee was to go on unemployment for that time "since he was paying into it, we all needed to get some of it". I never did get unemployment working for that guy, he never paid in. I never spoke with him again, he completely ignored me and would not answer any communication that I attempted. I did turn in for my last paycheck, and he short me $17. Not one word, just a check showed up in the mail one day.

I must just pick the wrong employers!

Thanks again.

 

[cbg]

They may have been "in the wrong" ethically and morally - since I don't know what their reasoning was, I can't say for sure but it's certainly possible. That doesn't translate to breaking the law, however.

What reason did the unemployment office give you for why you could not collect from the other employer?

 

[mudmantim]

What reason did the unemployment office give you for why you could not collect from the other employer?

They said the employer never paid in. I checked back with them 3 or 4 times and always got the same answer. My wife had our first baby mid-November, so I wasn't in a rush to go back to work anyway.

 

[davew128]

I don't know Michigan law but unless there is something unusual, whether the employer paid SUTA or not on his employees should have no bearing on the unemployment claim.

 

[LdiJ]

I don't know Michigan law but unless there is something unusual, whether the employer paid SUTA or not on his employees should have no bearing on the unemployment claim.

Unless he treated them all as contractors...whether he did so legally or not.

 

[commentator]

Oh yes, in some circumstances, if your employer was misclassifying you as a contractor, or you were working for someone who was not paying his taxes in when he should have been and was in the process of being pursued for FUTA taxes by the department, you could appeal the lack of covered wages in your monetary determination and get a claim set up based on the unemployment general pool instead of directly from the employer.

That he mentioned, how he would lay everyone off because he pays the max anyhow, is very accurate. most construction type employer, IF they have enough employees and a big enough operation to owe any unemployment taxes, do pay the max. Their work is seasonal and by the job, so lay offs are going to be expected. But maybe this person hadn't been working for him long enough, or maybe the wages weren't showing up on the monetary determination, or maybe he was misclassified and needed to appeal. That's neither here or there at this time.

What this person wants to hear, as he is from his cop friend (who incidentally most likely doesn't know any more about labor law than the average person in the street, though he may know a whole lot about other laws!) that he was mistreated, that in our fine country, there are protections for people against employers really treating them badly (that's why we don't need those evil labor unions!) and if it ever happens to you, you can sue somebody and get justice.

And then it happens, and you find out that in this present work situation and law situation, the employer has almost all the power. In this case, the employer elected to exercise their right to terminate at will, eating the cost of paying your unemployment without protest, because they simply did not want you to work for them any more. I have seen this happen a lot. Maybe you gave them the creeps because of something you said, did, or were. Maybe they didn't like you personally, maybe they didn't like your work. Maybe you had body odor, or maybe they just plain old needed to cut one person off the staff and you were it in the straw poll.

But one hint, when moving on, just be polite, positive and do not, whatever you do, discuss the terrible way you have been treated by past employers with future employers. Produce some statement about how, even though you did have an old record, you were able to get your feet in the water of employment with this company because of a certain program, and worked for three months, in which time I did .....so on and so forth, and got such and such experience. When I was no longer needed there, I have been drawing benefits and looking for something else, like your company here....."