Fix-it ticket- cop gave me wrong instructions!

[CAjade]

What is the name of your state? CA

Ok, here's the story, sorry if long. A few weeks ago, I was pulled over in the town l live in and given a citation for my brakelights being out. The officer told me I had until August 11 to submit proof of correction to the courts. He also told me that if I got pulled over again before then, I should just show the officer the existing citation and that way I would not get cited a second time for the same thing. That's all he said.

So, I went on my way, procrastinated on getting them fixed (bad safety-wise I know but I didn't know illegal!), and here it is July 13 yesterday, I got pulled over again in another town for the brakelights. As the first officer had said, I told this new officer that I'd already been cited for this, and she said in that case she was going to cite me for "unlawful operation" of a vehicle due to failure to correct the original violation. WHAT? I told her what the original officer had said, that I had till August 11, and she said that was wrong, that the original citation ordered me to get it fixed immediately or risk further citation. When I protested she said all I could do was contest her ticket and subpoena the original officer to court.

So now if I do that it will be the original officer's word against mine...do I stand a chance? I just don't get how two different officers could tell me such different information. Suggestions ??? Please??

 

[You Are Guilty]

Easy - the 1st officer isn't a lawyer, and you shouldn't have taken legal advice from him.

Do you really think that once you get a ticket for something, you're entitled to go "scot-free" for the violation till you pay? According to your logic, if I get a speeding ticket, I can then speed the rest of the way to my destination with impugnity. Nice try.

Technically, the first officer could have written you up, let you drive 5 minutes down the road, pulled you over again, and written you up for the same thing. Of course, courts are reasonable about stuff like that and in that case, the second ticket would probably be dismissed, but it's not required to be.

You're on the hook for that second ticket no matter how many officers you subpoena. Especially considering a lousy brake light bulb is about $1.50, there's really no excuse not to get it fixed quickly.

 

[CAjade]

Easy - the 1st officer isn't a lawyer, and you shouldn't have taken legal advice from him.

Do you really think that once you get a ticket for something, you're entitled to go "scot-free" for the violation till you pay? According to your logic, if I get a speeding ticket, I can then speed the rest of the way to my destination with impugnity. Nice try.

Technically, the first officer could have written you up, let you drive 5 minutes down the road, pulled you over again, and written you up for the same thing. Of course, courts are reasonable about stuff like that and in that case, the second ticket would probably be dismissed, but it's not required to be.

You're on the hook for that second ticket no matter how many officers you subpoena. Especially considering a lousy brake light bulb is about $1.50, there's really no excuse not to get it fixed quickly.

Ok now wait a second. Of course I know a police officer is not a lawyer, but should I expect that they give me CORRECT information about how to handle a vehicle code violation? Absolutely! And even if they fail to give me all the information, the info they DO give should not be blatantly WRONG, correct? So when you get a speeding ticket, do you challenge the officer because he is not a lawyer? I think not.

And your comparison to getting a speeding ticket is a very bad analogy, by the way. Of course I don't think I'm "innocent" and can get off "scot-free" with dead brakelights, but I was basing my action on the officer's direction- I feel it was his obligation to tell me I could get another ticket for this before I got it fixed, instead of telling me the OPPOSITE. If he'd told me the truth, I would have fixed it right way.

And actually getting the lights fixed is going to be about $50, not $1.50. But that's besides the point now...

thanks for the, er, advice. Appreciate it. Boy I can't wait to read your response to my other post...

 

[bisto]

regardless of the amount of a new light, you should not have continued driving with no brake lights for 2 weeks. You should have fixed it as soon as it was pointed out to you. Now you will pay the price for being lazy.

 

[You Are Guilty]

If you need to pay someone $50 to fix your $1.50 brake light, that's not my problem, nor is it relevant.

However, like I said, the police are not lawyers, and you rely on the legal advice they give at your own risk. If the first officer told you that after he wrote you up, you could then pee on every cop who pulled you over for burnt-out brake lights afterwards, would you do that? Of course you wouldn't (I hope) -- just because he said it, doesn't mean it's true, that it's reasonable, or that you can rely on it.

In the cop's defense, as a courtesy (i.e. at their own personal discretion), police officers will sometimes not re-ticket someone for an equipment violation that they were cited for in the recent past. Presumably, this is what he was referring. There's no requirement for it however, and I am fairly sure he didn't guarantee any subsequent brake tickets you received would be dismissed on this basis.

For whatever reason you want to attribute it to, you're on the hook for both tickets.


NB: Despite your less-than-gracious reply here, I still answered your other post as well. You sure seem to be getting an awful lot of tickets.

 

[CAjade]

Once again, the safety issue of driving without brakelights is not the point I was asking for advice on, nor was I was I trying to "escape" anything, nor am I trying to argue that driving with no brakelights was a good idea- I'm not that stupid, people! The issue was around a police officer giving me blatantly incorrect instructions about vehicle code violations and how/when to correct them. If the court wants to prosecute me for being "lazy", then fine, I'd love to see where that's written in the vehicle code. Geez. Guess that's what I get for asking for free advice, eh?

 

[dequeendistress]

The first written warning was at the discretion of the officer. This kind of crappola is why it does not pay to be the "nice" officer. It is always a nice day when you stop one for a minor violation and are argued with about how another officer stopped them for the same thing...nice, nice day.

 

[Aegis]

"Ok, here's the story, sorry if long. A few weeks ago, I was pulled over in the town l live in and given a citation for my brakelights being out. The officer told me I had until August 11 to submit proof of correction to the courts. "

** Here's the important part: {In your own words} You had until August 11 to submit proof of the correction to the courts, NOT to get it fixed. You should have gotten it fixed right away.

"He also told me that if I got pulled over again before then, I should just show the officer the existing citation and that way I would not get cited a second time for the same thing. That's all he said. "

** He can speak for himself and SOMEWHAT for the other officers in his OWN jurisdiction [they are not bound to his word]. In any case, he can NOT speak for an officer in another town.

"So, I went on my way, procrastinated on getting them fixed (bad safety-wise I know but I didn't know illegal!),"

** Did you not read the little drivers' manual for your state? I believe all 50 states have statutes against operating a motor vehicle unsafely. That brake light isn't just for YOUR safety, but for the safety of every OTHER driver that shares the road with you.

" and here it is July 13 yesterday, I got pulled over again in another town for the brakelights. As the first officer had said, I told this new officer that I'd already been cited for this, and she said in that case she was going to cite me for "unlawful operation" of a vehicle due to failure to correct the original violation. WHAT? I told her what the original officer had said, that I had till August 11, and she said that was wrong, that the original citation ordered me to get it fixed immediately or risk further citation. When I protested she said all I could do was contest her ticket and subpoena the original officer to court.

So now if I do that it will be the original officer's word against mine...do I stand a chance? I just don't get how two different officers could tell me such different information. Suggestions ??? Please?? "

 

[CdwJava]

I can't imagine ANY officer in CA telling someone that it is okay to keep driving on a fix-it ticket. We usually tell them that they can be cited each and every time they drive the vehicle in the state of disrepair. Additionally, some of us inform the subject that if they fail to crrect the cite and get pulled over again, they can get cited for a seperate violation of failing to correct the violation. And apparently, you WERE cited for the failure to correct violation.

Whet he likely told you is that you had until the court date to get the correction signed off ... and if he really DID tell you that you could get a free pass on another stop, then he needs to be spanked by his supervisor.

I doubt that it will have any effect on the court hearing for the second violation unless you can get the first officer to come in to court and admit to making that statement to you ... and there's not likely much of a chance of THAT happening.

Carl

 

[You Are Guilty]

I doubt that it will have any effect on the court hearing for the second violation unless you can get the first officer to come in to court and admit to making that statement to you ... and there's not likely much of a chance of THAT happening.

Carl

Even if he comes to court dressed in priests' robes and swears on a stack of bibles ten feet high that he told her exacty that, it won't matter. "Ignorance of the law...", etc. His word doesn't change the fact that she still didn't fix the brake lights like she was required to. It may seem unfair, but dem's the rules.

 

[CAjade]

I can't imagine ANY officer in CA telling someone that it is okay to keep driving on a fix-it ticket. We usually tell them that they can be cited each and every time they drive the vehicle in the state of disrepair. Additionally, some of us inform the subject that if they fail to crrect the cite and get pulled over again, they can get cited for a seperate violation of failing to correct the violation. And apparently, you WERE cited for the failure to correct violation.

****Well, I sure wish now that *you* had been the one pulling me over the first time, Carl...at least you would have given me the right information in the first place!

What he likely told you is that you had until the court date to get the correction signed off ... and if he really DID tell you that you could get a free pass on another stop, then he needs to be spanked by his supervisor.

***yes, he did tell me I had till the court date to get it signed off. He also told me if I got pulled over in the meantime to simply show the existing citation so the new officer wouldn't cite me again. All that got me was a failure to correct violation, so clearly that was wrong. Is there any other reason I should show the first citation to the second officer, other than to show the second officer I was being "unlawful"? Why would he tell me to show the citation off? Its so nice that I can put so much faith in my city's police force to help me self-prosecute....how refreshing that knowledge is.

I doubt that it will have any effect on the court hearing for the second violation unless you can get the first officer to come in to court and admit to making that statement to you ... and there's not likely much of a chance of THAT happening.

Yeah, I hear you- Basically I'm probably screwed either way, since the officer will not likely admit to what he told me...as I feared, my word against his. Lovely. I'd really like to take him to court, just to make my point heard, but I'm thinking its going to fall on deaf ears and waste my time, and part of me doesn't want to give that officer the $300 in overtime pay he'll receive just for showing up in court....

 

[CAjade]

NB: Despite your less-than-gracious reply here, I still answered your other post as well. You sure seem to be getting an awful lot of tickets.

Well, Y.A.G., you're other advice on my other post was more helpful, and appreciated, for what its worth. I should have known from your username that you'd tear me a new one, LOL, but hey, advice is advice...I appreciate it either way. Forgive me for defending myself. Anyway, blah blah....yeah, 2 tickets in one month- my first two EVER in 15 years of driving. Guess I was due...

 

[Aegis]

So quick to slam the cop...

In my city, cops routinely give the same advice you were given... "Get it fixed. Show proof at the court. If you get pulled over again, show this citation." The other cops in my SAME city will respect that... They look at the date on the citation and if it hasn't been TOO long, they let me go.

What happened to YOU, however, was the second cop was in ANOTHER town... Cops from different jurisdictions hardly ever honor each others' word (around hear, at least). Also, maybe they WOULD have let you off, but the date on the citation indicated you procrastinated a bit TOO long (subject entirely to the cops' judgement).

 

[CAjade]

Ok, enough of the debate...let me change course here. If I do opt to contest the "failure to correct" violation and subpoena the original officer to court for giving me misinformation, do I have anything to lose besides the time spent in court, or the time spent filling out paper work if I can get a trial by written declaration? I mean, they can't stick me with higher bail or anything for contesting then losing, right? Dumb question maybe but I don't know what *not* to question at this point! I'm figuring on about $230 total bail once I show proof of my license and insurance, but the "unlawful operation" is the one cite that will put a point on my record so just may be worth my time at least making a stab at fighting it? Don't know, I'm cynical about the whole system now.

 

[Aegis]

Honestly, whenever I get a ticket, I give it to my attorney and pay him the money I would have paid to the city/county. It then evaporates... Nothing on my record... No points... No harm/no foul.