furiousdad

[BelizeBreeze]

The shoplifting was unrelated to my daughter being there looking at hair coloring. The manager stated that her and her friends and been seen in the past shoplifting. She told him he was wrong. The so called witness to this. Was never produced or even named. There is a racial problem in this area, sorry that seems moot to you.

The fact that your daughter has bi-colored hair, that she is bi-racial, that she wears a thong or is pigeontoed is inmaterial to the fact that you have not answered the question I posed and will receive no further legal advice until you do.

Now, I suggest you leave the attitude where it belongs and either answer the question of deal with this on your own.

 

[mikado]

The fact that your daughter has bi-colored hair, that she is bi-racial, that she wears a thong or is pigeontoed is inmaterial to the fact that you have not answered the question I posed and will receive no further legal advice until you do.

Now, I suggest you leave the attitude where it belongs and either answer the question of deal with this on your own.

Maybe I should have answered yours before I answered the idiots , I apologize. I thank you again for a good reponse earlier.
Mikado

 

[BelizeBreeze]

Maybe I should have answered yours before I answered the idiots , I apologize. I thank you again for a good reponse earlier.
Mikado

So answer it now. Was the 'officer' you mentioned a security guard or the police?

 

[mikado]

So answer it now. Was the 'officer' you mentioned a security guard or the police?

I thought I had answered it.
He was a city police officer there in the office with the girl who had been caught shoplifting.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state? Washington
Yesterday my daughter was in a local grocery store. She and a friend were in an area where there had been shoplifting earlier that day, and she was detained. She is multi racial, and has chosen to have bright colors highlighting her hair. When she told the manager she had not taken anything, the manager replied "yes you did, you were seen by an employee and a customer" she replied you and they are wrong look here I have nothing and started to empty her pockets. The manager replied " no, you and your friends have been doing this a long time and we finally caught you" they asked a young man, also a minor to step back in the store, and he refused. My daughter pulled her cell phone out of her pocket, which she had put away earlier to look at hair coloring just before all of this happened, and called her mother. Her mother told her to let the manager talk to her and the manager refused and told her to hang the phone up. Her mother told her to show him her pockets and leave the store. The manager refused and told her to wait right there, when she told him she was leaving, that her mother told her to, he got between her and the door and backed her into the corner with two other employees. They took her upstairs where another girl was with an officer and being charged with shoplifting. She was asked questions about how long she had been shoplifting and so on. She again denied it in front of the officer and offered to him to search her. He told her he had no right to do that. Meanwhile the manager was filling out his form for what she dicribed as a criminal tresspass warrant and made her sign it stating she would never be allowed in the store again, if she did come back on the property she would go right to jail.
My daughter and my wife were in a rage and very distressed emotionally when I got home. Iwent to the store and tried to get some answers only to have another shift of managers confuse my daughter with the girl who actually did shoplift. Please let me know if these idiots can violate my daughter right like this and what laws they have broken. I am seeking a lawyer Tuesday morning first thing but would like a little piece of mind between now and then.

Your words, not mine. Your admissions. The store manager can legally prevent her from entering the store again and can have her sign an agreement. Her racial status has no relevance. Kool-aide makes a great rinse for wild colors. BTW I have raised boys who have never been trespassed from a store

 

[mikado]

Your words, not mine. Your admissions. The store manager can legally prevent her from entering the store again and can have her sign an agreement. Her racial status has no relevance. Kool-aide makes a great rinse for wild colors. BTW I have raised boys who have never been trespassed from a store

"Where there had been" not where they had been!
What is it you think I am admitting to?

 

[mikado]

Your words, not mine. Your admissions. The store manager can legally prevent her from entering the store again and can have her sign an agreement. Her racial status has no relevance. Kool-aide makes a great rinse for wild colors. BTW I have raised boys who have never been trespassed from a store

Good for you Andy, I am sure Opy and his brother(s) are proud of you, as to the Kool-aid hint , I will try that if it turns out I do not like the colors my daughters are putting in my hair as we chat.

 

[mikado]

Definately go see a lawyer. He had no grounds to detain her. Especially after she emptied her pockets. Have you thought about contacting the American Civil Liberties Union. Her civil liberties were violated. First, a store owner cannot just detain someone. He may hold her there only as long as it takes for the authorities to arrive. The authorities take it from there. Since the police were there already, he should have taken her to them and allowed them to do their job. They didn't arrest her so they didn't find reason. Also, that store owner cannot force anyone to sign anything. The fact that she did sign means nothing. She is a minor and cannot legally make agreements. That store owner needs to be taken to task. And by the way hair color and being in the wrong place are not sufficient reasons to suspect someone of a crime. He therefore cannot make a citizen's arrest which is why store owners are allowed to hold suspected shoplifters until the police can be summoned. Good luck.

Thank you,
sorry it brought others down on you.

 

[BelizeBreeze]

I thought I had answered it.
He was a city police officer there in the office with the girl who had been caught shoplifting.

Your daughter was, according to your post, not arrested or charged with shoplifting. From what I got out of your post, a criminal trespass warrant was sworn out against her. And there is nothing whatsoever illegal about that. The shop owner, however misled, is well within his rights to bar her from the store.

The officer also was correct in that he had no right to conduct a search. One, because he was a male and two, she was not being charged with shoplifting.

Now, that being said, I would strongly advise you have a 'come to jesus' with your daughter. Not because I think she was shoplifting then or earlier (although I think it's a strong possibility) but because any further action by you in this matter is contingent on her being truthful, completely.

If you are confident of her honesty, then make an appointment with a competent attorney first thing Monday Morning and file a civil suit against the manager personally, the store and the employees who detained her.

Discuss with your attorney criminal intent provisions of Illegal Detention

It is, first, of utmost importance to emphasize that the detention of any shoplifting suspect should be based upon first hand observations by the merchant or his/her responsible, authorized agent. The intent of the suspected shoplifter must be clear, preferably including such elements as concealment of the item(s), nonpayment in any manner, furtive actions, and leaving the premises. These elements combine to show criminal intent and thus, probable cause to detain/arrest. (1) A shoplift detention lacking strong elements of probable cause, as mentioned above, may be a weak criminal case and certainly would be an ill-advised civil restitution claim. The apprehension should have no legal flaws.

 

[USMOM]

Mikado, Not a legal point, but how is your daughter doing. I worked with juveniles for a long time and I have heard how traumatized they feel. Please let her know that there are people out there who do not feel like that is OK. Good luck. With whatever legal course of action you take or not.

 

[mikado]

Your daughter was, according to your post, not arrested or charged with shoplifting. From what I got out of your post, a criminal trespass warrant was sworn out against her. And there is nothing whatsoever illegal about that. The shop owner, however misled, is well within his rights to bar her from the store.

The officer also was correct in that he had no right to conduct a search. One, because he was a male and two, she was not being charged with shoplifting.

Now, that being said, I would strongly advise you have a 'come to jesus' with your daughter. Not because I think she was shoplifting then or earlier (although I think it's a strong possibility) but because any further action by you in this matter is contingent on her being truthful, completely.

If you are confident of her honesty, then make an appointment with a competent attorney first thing Monday Morning and file a civil suit against the manager personally, the store and the employees who detained her.

Discuss with your attorney criminal intent provisions of Illegal Detention

It is, first, of utmost importance to emphasize that the detention of any shoplifting suspect should be based upon first hand observations by the merchant or his/her responsible, authorized agent. The intent of the suspected shoplifter must be clear, preferably including such elements as concealment of the item(s), nonpayment in any manner, furtive actions, and leaving the premises. These elements combine to show criminal intent and thus, probable cause to detain/arrest. (1) A shoplift detention lacking strong elements of probable cause, as mentioned above, may be a weak criminal case and certainly would be an ill-advised civil restitution claim. The apprehension should have no legal flaws.

Again thank you,
I have had that talk and more, and believe every word. Speaking outside of the parent/daughtr relationship, she is just too damn sweet and honest for that. She has confessed to things that I would have never guessed on my own. She has no reason to lie to me. The managers story was the one with holes. Sorry about the attitude towards others, it upsets me when someone I love is attacked in any way.
I will research the areas you mentioned.
Mikado

 

[mikado]

Mikado, Not a legal point, but how is your daughter doing. I worked with juveniles for a long time and I have heard how traumatized they feel. Please let her know that there are people out there who do not feel like that is OK. Good luck. With whatever legal course of action you take or not.

Thank you,
She is upset and we are working on letting her know it is not society just a few small minded people. She is coloring my hair tonight and we are going to a movie.

Thanks again,

Mikado

 

[stealth2]

Mikado - your initial post was quite poorly worded and therefore open to a load of interpretation. Sorry. Next time, try to write a bit more clearly.

 

[USMOM]

She will be OK

Hey with a Dad like you, it sounds like she is going to be fine. I glad. And don't worry about others coming down on me. It seems like that is pretty normal on this forum.

 

[BelizeBreeze]

And one more suggestion. IF this situation occurs again, or anything like it, tell her DO NOT CALL MOMMY, DADDY or anyone else but the police. PERIOD!