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JaneyS4

Member
Christine Family Tragedy - an update
by Edgar J. Steele

November 15, 2002

Tonight (Friday, November 15), Dateline NBC will air its segment on the
Christine family's travails (9-10 pm ET and Pacific Time, check your TV
Schedule for local time).

As most on this list know, Brian and Ruth Christine are now serving prison
terms in connection with the alleged kidnapping of their own children back
from the State of Oregon. Ruth got 7 1/2 years following trial this past
April; Brian got 12 1/2. And, under Oregon's "get tough on crime" law,
those are solid terms. I was their trial attorney.

(See When Dreams Become Nightmares , Day 1: State vs. Christine - A Family
Divided , Day 4: State vs. Christine - A Family Divided , Guilty of Caring
and Mommy, Why Can't You Be With Us? from my archives at
www.conspiracypenpal.com to come up to speed on The State of Oregon vs.
Brian and Ruth Christine.)

Dateline is billing this as being a joint production with Court TV, which
broadcast excerpts from the trial over several days this past July. Given
the incredibly biased editing and commentary imparted by most Court TV
anchors, I expect this to be something less than kind to everybody except
the State.

Even so, I encourage you to tune in and view excerpts from the only
jailhouse interview we allowed Brian and Ruth to give prior to the trial.
I was interviewed recently for the segment, as well, as was the Deputy DA
that tried the case.

There are a couple of things that I know he has been saying which need
correcting. First, he has been saying that we never offered to stipulate
to evidence or testimony so as to forestall his forcing little Bethany to
take the stand and testify against her own parents. That is a blatant
falsehood.

Even as late as the last moment, as Deputy District Attorney Wesenberg
called for Bethany to take the stand, I leaned over and urged him not to do
it, saying that we would stipulate to anything Bethany might say, so as to
prevent her the anguish that awaits her in the future. He would have none
of it. That says more about the mentality of what it takes to be a
prosecutor than anything else I can think to say.

Before Court TV aired their butchered version of the trial, I specifically
asked that they include the footage of my leaning over and whispering with
Wesenberg. Predictably, they declined to do so or to say much of anything
about that or Bethany's testimony, which I considered to be the single most
dramatic portion of the trial.Bethany placed the gun in Brian's hand,
unnecessary since two other witnesses had already done so. But, she also
placed Ruth at the scene, for which there was literally no other evidence.
Without Bethany, Ruth might have walked. Or Ruth's admission, of course,
which we offered to save Bethany the lifelong trauma that now awaits her.

Secondly, Matthew Gerawan, the third defendant recently pled out to six
months and 2 years probation for, essentially, the same charges for which
Brian and Ruth are now doing excessively hard time. Wesenberg has been
quoted by at least one newspaper (the Idaho Statesmen, out of Boise) as
saying that Brian & Ruth's much longer sentences were due to the fact that
they "both made the choice to go to trial." This, too, is an abject
falsehood.

Even on the day of trial, Wesenberg was adamant that he would offer neither
of them a plea bargain involving less than 7-1/2 years hard time! That is
why they went to trial. Ruth did as well as that with her verdict and, if
the appeal goes as we think, both will have beaten his offer when all is
said and done.

You see, Oregon case law specifically says that if you use another's
vehicle in the commission of a crime for which you are prosecuted, you
cannot also be convicted of robbery of that vehicle. Brian and Ruth each
got 7 1/2 years for "robbing" the state of the vehicle which Brian drove a
couple of miles to get the kids to his car, leaving the state vehicle at
that place, keys in the ignition and undamaged.

We beat the kidnapping charges, but they were both convicted of misdemeanor
counts of custodial interference and unauthorized use of a motor vehicle,
in addition to felony robbery. We expected the misdemeanor convictions and
were endeavoring only to beat the felony charges.

We expect to overturn the felony robbery convictions on appeal.

Finally, I expect much to be made of the fact that Brian and Ruth later
pled out to the original, separate charges of child abuse. Brian and Ruth
agreed to "plead out" to a single charge each of criminal mistreatment.
This doesn't mean they "did it." On the contrary. They agreed to this for
three reasons:

1. To prevent any of their children being brought back to take the
stand and testify against them as the Douglas County prosecutor had little
Bethany do in the kidnapping trial we went through in May. When she gets
older, the psychological trauma of realizing that it was her testimony that
sent her parents to prison will be substantial. Even in the face of a
system that has repeatedly brutalized them, the Christines have once again
demonstrated what we have known all along: they are good parents.

2. Because, by preagreement, all the time the judge assessed will be
"served" concurrent with the time they received in Douglas County. This
means that the time sentenced is irrelevant. That they each have another
felony on their record is also of little consequence, in face of what has
already been done to them.

3. After their experience with the Douglas County jury, the Christines
rightfully did not trust either judge or jury to treat them properly this
time, either. Can't say I blame them.

Another interesting postscript to this case is the fact that we have yet to
be given copies of the judgments entered against Brian and Ruth, though I
have been demanding them from the Court Clerk and DDA Wesenberg for months
now. You see, under Oregon law you can't file a Notice of Appeal without
attaching a copy of the judgment. Neat, huh?

Three times now, the Oregon Supreme Court has rejected my request for
putting this appeal in line for hearing because I was unable to provide a
copy of the judgments. Much longer and I will move directly to the Federal
appellate courts, but I have to give the Oregon authorities enough rope
first.

Yet another example of what has become a mantra for me: the
politically-incorrect cannot get justice in America today.

Tonight. Dateline NBC. 9 pm. Brian and Ruth were just like any of us a
couple of years ago. Next year, it very easily could be you featured in
this time slot.
 


JaneyS4

Member
ANyone interested in seeing what miscarriages of justice CPS is capable of, watch this tonight, and go read the previous stories.

These people had their children taken from them for being vegetarians, and because they had a child recovering from an illness. No abuse, no neglect, no anything except a different sort of lifestyle, which is not a crime and by no means a reason to have your children stolen from you forever.

If you go read the stories online, be sure to note that Oregon CPS actually fought the other (I don't remember if it was Montana or Missouri) to try to force them to give Oregon the other two children also. What a load of crap!

Anyone who happens to watch, come back and tell me what your take on it is.
 

CMSC

Senior Member
We are definitely watching this tonight. I had not heard about the case until the dateline previews.
 

JaneyS4

Member
Ryry, this is an example of CPS at its worst. These people didn't do anything wrong. What's more, CPS didn't take the time to figure out if they had done anything wrong or not before swooping in and taking these children. I'd encourage you to go read the links, along with this one: http://www.megaone.com/protest/christine.html
(there are several other links on this page relating to the story also)

The sad part of all this is, once they saw that the system wasn't going to let them have their kids back, and they took things into their own hands and THEN did commit a crime, thereby giving CPS the reason they needed to justify what they did. All this AFTER they already started process to terminate the parents rights. They basically forced these folks into commiting a crime to save their kids. Now, when Ruth CHristines sentence is up, she will be deported from the US (she is a british citizen) and will never be allowed to return to see the two youngest children which are in Brians mothers custody, and Brian will not be allowed a VISA to see the three oldest children, which are in the custody of Ruth's parents. Nor will this young married couple be able to see each other again. They have basically destroyed a family. All for living a little differently. (You'll have to read to understand, but I think anyone would agree that while the lifestyle was a bit different there was nothing detrimental to the children in it)
 

JaneyS4

Member
ryry's mom said:
We are definitely watching this tonight. I had not heard about the case until the dateline previews.

Just wondering if you got a chance to watch the program?....and what your thoughts were on it?:)
 

CMSC

Senior Member
I did watch it and on one hand I can see where the little girls may have been neglected but on the other hand the state took those girls for waaaaay too long!!!!

This is how I look at it, those pictu res to me were grotesque, the children were too skinny, however, they were vegetarians. And in the picture of them with the grandparents they were healthy looking, but probably ate meat.

Fasting is done in my religion as well as others HOWEVER you DO NOT fast children, no matter if it is just until 3 p.m. But the state doesn't have the right to infringe upon religious beliefs! If they do that then they need to go to Oregon where that one group uses prayer to heal and many children die!

I was concerned about the cut on the child's head and the skull fracture, that was horrible looking and she should have seen an doctor sooner.

I also don't believe in a family raising children in a bus, but then again Madeline Toogood (the Irish traveler who beat her child in the parking lot) and her husband have not had all of their children removed from the home from what I know, for living in a camper. So it is really hard to say.


I do think what the parents did was wrong. It is just a shame they have to sit in prison so long! I also think the outcome would have been simplier and healthier had they just done the testing that was required by CPS and then if they were given the run around about getting their kids back they should have fought! But they didn't do what was needed to get the kids back. And no offense to this couple but if you lived in a bus and just had 3 girls taken away and gave birth to another one and had to hide it, would you get pregnant again?

Sorry, I think the girls should have been removed from the home BUT given back after a quick investigation was done! I do think the punishment was horrible but in the end it was the parents decisions that put their children in somoene elses home and atleast these children are with family and not with a foster family.


Okay after all that blabbing, I do want to say one more thing!:) I don't think the state should have terminated these parents rights! But here is the thing, can't they terminate them now that they are in jail?

I also did not realize until I read your post that the mom would be deported after her sentence and not allowed to return. Do you think they will abide by this? I don't I see a family who is so destine to be together that if they survive the sentences, they will do what it takes to be together.
 
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JaneyS4

Member
Do I think they will abide by the rules about deportation? Well, if they told you you could never see your kids again, would you? I sure wouldn't. But these folks are going to be watched so closely, I sure hope they don't get into anymore trouble.

And I do agree with you about some of the things that the parents did that sort of made the situation worse, but I also believe CPS made it worse also.
 

Grace_Adler

Senior Member
I think both were at fault.

If you go and read the story online they left a bunch of stuff out. They left out how she was handcuffed and shackled to the hospital bed when giving birth to the 5th child. WTF? What's she going to do and where is she gonna go? To me that was cruel. They left out how Ruth was a foster child and all the nasty things her foster parents said about her. They left out how the SWAT team invaded the grandmother's home with machine guns to get the kids. They left out how the grandmother called and wrote to CPS over and over with no response to get the kids. They left out that another doctor said the child didn't have a skull fracture. You know they edit all this stuff so you don't get the whole story. They have to fit this big story into just a what, 40 minute show after commercials?

I don't think CPS was right for denying access for other family members to get the kids. They were wrong for the way they went about the whole thing. I mean what would you do if someone only let you see your kids twice in a year and told you they were going to adopt them out?

Now I don't blame the Christines for not wanting to go see a state appointed shrink . I wouldn't trust them either. They could very easily say they aren't fit parents just so they can get that state money and adopt the kids out. If I could pick my own dr. then I would go.

It also costs money to fight. Something they probably didn't have alot of.

I don't think they deserve what they got. I can't blame them for what they did because I would do anything for my kids to be with me but I do disagree with the way they handled it. They were going to use the lesser of the 2 evils uh, forget what you call it, pleading or whatever also jury nullification, is that right? Where if you break the law because of good intentions and because you feel you have no other recourse they overlook it or something like that but the judge or someone wouldn't agree to it.

Like I said they handled it wrong but I don't agree with them ripping the family apart. I truly believe they love their children but need some serious parenting skills. Shoot, I think everyone could use them, myself included cuz no one is perfect. I was however a little concerned with the pictures.

Also,even if the girl did have a fracture, it could have been an accident. I guess I can never take my children anywhere if they have a cut or bruise. Someone might flip out and call CPS. They make it too easy for a loving family that's not hurting their kids to get in trouble or be investigated.

Those cops shouldn't have busted up in there with no search warrent either.

I think CPS should be held accountable for the way they handled things too.

The Christine's didn't handle things very well but I don't agree with what's happening and going to happen to them,meaning the family can never be together again.

I agree with that lawyer. CPS sucks and should be abolished and start over from scratch.

Ok, that's just my two cents.

:)
 

Whyte Noise

Senior Member
Not CPS, but just as bad

This happened Friday..... A woman in Illinois has Fibromyalgia. (sp) Is on Oxycontin for the pain. Her ex filed a motion to have her children taken from her, and to give him custody because of the PRESCRIBED drug she was on to manage her disease's pain. A judge actually signed this... and said... "FM is a MENTAL disease (and it's not), and I don't think you're mentally able to care for your children because of the drug you're on." It was an exparte motion. Poor woman never saw it coming. No investigation, no allegations of abuse, nothing. Just an ex parte motion signed by a judge based on someones statement, and your children are gone. Now days, you don't wipe your children's nose the second it runs you're being reported for neglect. Your child falls down outside and skins their knees and a neighbor sees the scabs, it's child abuse. And I guess when you're on a medication prescribed by a physician for a medical condition, judges automatically become Board Certified Ph.D's or something, give you a free second opinion as to where your disease originates from and what it REALLY is, and take your children from you. Welcome to the 21st century!
 
T

toasted

Guest
I saw the episode. I think that the state was wrong and so were the Chrisitnes. Having said that, maybe someone will write the Govenor and ask for a pardon for the mother so she can remain in the states, or for the father so he can leave the states. Oh heck, pardon them both so they can just go live somewhere together as a family.

It was a sad story. But there's still hope for a happy ending. Keep us posted. I won't forget this one!
 
M

marc_a_g

Guest
I did not see the show, so this comment is not about that particular case.....it just makes me so angry and sad when I hear of how quick the state is to take children away on little or no evidence of abuse...but then you have children going missing and coming up dead b/c they don't investigate.

Where is the justice for the children?
 

CMSC

Senior Member
marc_a_g said:
I did not see the show, so this comment is not about that particular case.....it just makes me so angry and sad when I hear of how quick the state is to take children away on little or no evidence of abuse...but then you have children going missing and coming up dead b/c they don't investigate.

Where is the justice for the children?


Great point marc, about missing children!
 

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