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jslopez711
Member
Terence Beckham said:
Easy there Terence
BelizeBreeze
Senior Member
Terry has 'soccer' envy.jslopez711 said:
He thinks he's Lothar Mattaius or Rudy Voller
Terence Beckham
Member
I have no envy whatsoever (And I don't like soccer !) The only thing I would like to bend is the lawyers and the wannabe lawyers - hopefully they would snap in two assuming they didn't slip out of my hands!
I just find it amazing that I can come onto a website filled with lawyers and wannabee lawyers who at times seem to get such a sad kick out of it.
Whilst yes legal advice unfortunately is at times needed there should still be a clear consideration as to when there is a clear and obvious situation where the need for a lawyer should be firmly kicked into touch..but oh no I get some smart alec saying in capital letters 'doh because Thats what THE LAW says!' How pathetic! Especially considering how your government flouts so many international laws!
Is it any wonder that most of the world resents the USA when many of you seem to extol such a national pysche of arrogance?
I just find it amazing that I can come onto a website filled with lawyers and wannabee lawyers who at times seem to get such a sad kick out of it.
Whilst yes legal advice unfortunately is at times needed there should still be a clear consideration as to when there is a clear and obvious situation where the need for a lawyer should be firmly kicked into touch..but oh no I get some smart alec saying in capital letters 'doh because Thats what THE LAW says!' How pathetic! Especially considering how your government flouts so many international laws!
Is it any wonder that most of the world resents the USA when many of you seem to extol such a national pysche of arrogance?
jslopez711
Member
Terence Beckham said:
So, are you ready to jump the pond? Terence now is not the time to take any shots at the US. And don't forget that many of us here reading your anti-American, euro rhetoric are veterans. So if you want to do your part against the machine, please, just stop smoking Marlboros, don't drink Miller, don't book a plane ticket to New York, vote and please, --shut the he** up.
COMPRENDE?
LdiJ
Senior Member
Terence Beckham said:
While I sympathize with the goals of your organization I have to admit that I think that you are just as narrowed minded and rigid as the court system that you despise. You advocate for things without clear and REALISTIC ways to accomplish those things....at least ways without chaos.
The current system developed as a means to avoid chaos...because too many (yes I will be despised by some for saying this) fathers walked away and never looked back. Please understand, I came from a generation where that is exactly what happened. I came from a generation where unwed father were often not forced to accept responsibility and often didn't care to be involved. I watched two aunts (on respective sides of the family) live without child support because there was no real enforcement...and their kids lived without their fathers...by their father's choices.
Is today's system unfair to fathers (actually I would say to ncps)? Yes, in some ways it can be, individually. However the laws themselves are not unfair...in fact in most states in the US they are pretty even handed...and I expect that its the same in the UK.
There are plenty of organizations in the US who think just like yours does. However I ask them the same thing that I ask you. How do you propose to make your ideas work? How do you propose to divide the priveledges and responsibilities of parenthood?...without it ever being unfair to one parent or the other?..or to the kids?
Everyone defines fairness differently. Ideally what you want is no court involvement...that everyone has total access to their children and total descretion on what money is spent towards support of those children. However what you refuse to admit is that is could never work. In a world peopled by perfect parents who are perfect people it would. Unfortunately, that is not our world.
My state sets child support based on the amount of time that each parent has with the child as a court order and on the basis of each parent's income. Its actually possible for a parent with primary custody in my state to be paying child support to the parent who only sees the child every other weekend. Do you know what happens in my state? Many fathers and mothers fight for the maximum amount of time with the children as possible (for the purposes of child support) and then totally choose not to exercise ANY or most of that time...or even to contribute to their child's financial needs at all.
Grow up Terry. These problem have arisen because society has decided that it is no longer "taboo" to have a child without marriage, and that a marriage no longer has to be permanent if one or both partners are unhappy. In some ways that is a good thing and in other ways its isn't.
Nevertheless there will always be a need for laws in this arena....and realistically it isn't possible to make laws that guarantee utter fairness...or at least as each individual defines it.
Terence Beckham
Member
While I sympathize with the goals of your organization I have to admit that I think that you are just as narrowed minded and rigid as the court system that you despise.
My organisation?
Thanks for the insult but I reject being called narrow minded. I have a very broad mind.
I despise the court systems as they exist.What is wrong with the legal system is that it creates a winner/loser scenario. Everyone fights over the spoils of divorce/seperation i.e the money/the assets leaving the lawyers to rub their hands in glee as they normally walk away with a big chunk of the money - if not all. This cannot be in the best interests of the child. I have had 11 years of this crap in the Uk through 37 court hearings.
You advocate for things without clear and REALISTIC ways to accomplish those things....at least ways without chaos.
You do not know what I advocate how can you make this remark?
The current system developed as a means to avoid chaos...because too many (yes I will be despised by some for saying this) fathers walked away and never looked back. Please understand, I came from a generation where that is exactly what happened. I came from a generation where unwed father were often not forced to accept responsibility and often didn't care to be involved. I watched two aunts (on respective sides of the family) live without child support because there was no real enforcement...and their kids lived without their fathers...by their father's choices.
I accept there are **** fathers - hey my Father was one of them he walked away when I was 5 years old so don't think I do not know about **** fathers. But then this is what many Fathers were advised to do back then 'oh it would be better if you just walked away that is what is right for the children' The film Kramer v Kramer started the ball rolling in changing fathers attitudes in this respect.
But then there are **** mothers too - I have seen many of them my Mother was one of them as are my two aunts. I had **** parents perhaps that is why I am so passionate about being a good parent to my children.
To cite the current system was set up as a means to avoid chaos is comical - look around you on this forum there are 250,000 posts if that isn't chaos what is?
Is today's system unfair to fathers (actually I would say to ncps)? Yes, in some ways it can be, individually. However the laws themselves are not unfair...in fact in most states in the US they are pretty even handed...and I expect that its the same in the UK.
Todays systems UK/US/most of the western world are unfair to children, Fathers (in the main as non resident parent) and the paternal line of the family -why do you think over here we have people clambering onto Buckingham Palace to protest and attacking our Prime Minister in the Houses of Parliament with purple powdered condoms? Go read books like Fathers Matter by Celia Conrad a Uk Family Law Practitioner who is female and scathing on what the UK law does to Fathers in the Family Law Courts. Go check the Conservatives (Equivalent to your Republican party) political manifesto that is now advocating wholesale change on Uk Family Law. Incidentally these protests ares now happening in Canada, Holland, Scotland, Australia and Austria and are about to be launched on America. This is a global problem and whatever you may think of the protests we have here they are working people are taking notice.
There are plenty of organizations in the US who think just like yours does. However I ask them the same thing that I ask you. How do you propose to make your ideas work? How do you propose to divide the priveledges and responsibilities of parenthood?...without it ever being unfair to one parent or the other?..or to the kids?
Again I would say I personally have no organisation and whilst I consider myself a supporter of the F4J protests and understand their aims I am a free thinker (I.e not narrow minded as you suggest) and I consider that this is a complicated problem that needs social change as well as legal changes. Men in many ways bring on this situation that they find themselves in because they are too concerned with chivalrous acts and how to get into sexual relationships with women. I am a big critic of Fathers in general. Ultimately there is no perfect solution I think we all aknowledge that, but there is sure as a hell a better solution to the bedlam that exists today.
The trouble with many of your organisations is that they have become money orientated it is typical of the American way of 'living for the dollar'. These organisations have ironically become part of the satellite industry to the Legal establishment. The same is in danger of happening here. Many are ironically part of the problem.
As regards some of my thoughts; The initial legal presumption should be from a starting point of 50/50 parenting (The term custody should be ditched as it means winner/loser). Mediation and counselling should be mandatory ( In the Uk it is not) Child support should be calculated upon time spent and any expenses accrued through travel arrangements. Moving to another state/country should be prohibited unless either both parents are in agreement or the parent that wants to move forfeits the appropriate % of parenting time. Where there are allegations of DV then these need to be substantiated and proved (In the Uk all you need to do is to 'allege' and some mothers are coached by their solicitors to do exactly that)
Everyone defines fairness differently. Ideally what you want is no court involvement...that everyone has total access to their children and total descretion on what money is spent towards support of those children. However what you refuse to admit is that is could never work. In a world peopled by perfect parents who are perfect people it would. Unfortunately, that is not our world.
Yeah sure ;As I say I know there is no perfect solution but there is a darned better one than what exists here in the Uk and in the US for that matter
My state sets child support based on the amount of time that each parent has with the child as a court order and on the basis of each parent's income. Its actually possible for a parent with primary custody in my state to be paying child support to the parent who only sees the child every other weekend. Do you know what happens in my state? Many fathers and mothers fight for the maximum amount of time with the children as possible (for the purposes of child support) and then totally choose not to exercise ANY or most of that time...or even to contribute to their child's financial needs at all.
Yes I can see this - how dreadful let's use the kids to fight over money. So why not have 50/50 and no child support then both parents can go to work. Or better still maybe many of these parents ought to understand that love, harmony and a good relationship is not a divine right or like a new pair of shoes/car but something they need to work at.
If you finacially reward one partner with the spoils of relationship/family breakdown then they are likely to figure 'oh well I do not need to work at this I can just bugger off and take the money and find somone else to do this to'. There are many women that make a career out of divorce and here I introduce my ex-wife who at 40 years of age has never properly supported herself and instead is now on marriage number 4 with divorce pending!.
There are many men that abandon children and mothers. They need serious punishment too so make it a criminal offence to abandon your children .
We need to put parenting on the school curriculums. We teach our kids to add up, spell, where the north pole is and how to have sex but we do not teach them what to do after they have had sex and children are produced.
This isn't right wing rhetoric but common sense. In the Uk you need a licence to own a dog but bugger all to have a child.
Grow up Terry. These problem have arisen because society has decided that it is no longer "taboo" to have a child without marriage, and that a marriage no longer has to be permanent if one or both partners are unhappy. In some ways that is a good thing and in other ways its isn't.
Thanks again for a personal insult! I consider myself very mature and worldly.
These problems have arisen because of greed pure and simple.
Nevertheless there will always be a need for laws in this arena....and realistically it isn't possible to make laws that guarantee utter fairness...or at least as each individual defines it
I agree that as much as I dislike Lawyers we need laws to protect us from ourselves. But those laws need a radical look at and need to be designed to not reward the lawyers and the satellite industries.
And there lies the major problem.
I would conclude that anyone who wants to intelligently debate this or any other issue without insults can do so via email my email address is terence@oneworld.freeserve.co.uk
My organisation?
Thanks for the insult but I reject being called narrow minded. I have a very broad mind.
I despise the court systems as they exist.What is wrong with the legal system is that it creates a winner/loser scenario. Everyone fights over the spoils of divorce/seperation i.e the money/the assets leaving the lawyers to rub their hands in glee as they normally walk away with a big chunk of the money - if not all. This cannot be in the best interests of the child. I have had 11 years of this crap in the Uk through 37 court hearings.
You advocate for things without clear and REALISTIC ways to accomplish those things....at least ways without chaos.
You do not know what I advocate how can you make this remark?
The current system developed as a means to avoid chaos...because too many (yes I will be despised by some for saying this) fathers walked away and never looked back. Please understand, I came from a generation where that is exactly what happened. I came from a generation where unwed father were often not forced to accept responsibility and often didn't care to be involved. I watched two aunts (on respective sides of the family) live without child support because there was no real enforcement...and their kids lived without their fathers...by their father's choices.
I accept there are **** fathers - hey my Father was one of them he walked away when I was 5 years old so don't think I do not know about **** fathers. But then this is what many Fathers were advised to do back then 'oh it would be better if you just walked away that is what is right for the children' The film Kramer v Kramer started the ball rolling in changing fathers attitudes in this respect.
But then there are **** mothers too - I have seen many of them my Mother was one of them as are my two aunts. I had **** parents perhaps that is why I am so passionate about being a good parent to my children.
To cite the current system was set up as a means to avoid chaos is comical - look around you on this forum there are 250,000 posts if that isn't chaos what is?
Is today's system unfair to fathers (actually I would say to ncps)? Yes, in some ways it can be, individually. However the laws themselves are not unfair...in fact in most states in the US they are pretty even handed...and I expect that its the same in the UK.
Todays systems UK/US/most of the western world are unfair to children, Fathers (in the main as non resident parent) and the paternal line of the family -why do you think over here we have people clambering onto Buckingham Palace to protest and attacking our Prime Minister in the Houses of Parliament with purple powdered condoms? Go read books like Fathers Matter by Celia Conrad a Uk Family Law Practitioner who is female and scathing on what the UK law does to Fathers in the Family Law Courts. Go check the Conservatives (Equivalent to your Republican party) political manifesto that is now advocating wholesale change on Uk Family Law. Incidentally these protests ares now happening in Canada, Holland, Scotland, Australia and Austria and are about to be launched on America. This is a global problem and whatever you may think of the protests we have here they are working people are taking notice.
There are plenty of organizations in the US who think just like yours does. However I ask them the same thing that I ask you. How do you propose to make your ideas work? How do you propose to divide the priveledges and responsibilities of parenthood?...without it ever being unfair to one parent or the other?..or to the kids?
Again I would say I personally have no organisation and whilst I consider myself a supporter of the F4J protests and understand their aims I am a free thinker (I.e not narrow minded as you suggest) and I consider that this is a complicated problem that needs social change as well as legal changes. Men in many ways bring on this situation that they find themselves in because they are too concerned with chivalrous acts and how to get into sexual relationships with women. I am a big critic of Fathers in general. Ultimately there is no perfect solution I think we all aknowledge that, but there is sure as a hell a better solution to the bedlam that exists today.
The trouble with many of your organisations is that they have become money orientated it is typical of the American way of 'living for the dollar'. These organisations have ironically become part of the satellite industry to the Legal establishment. The same is in danger of happening here. Many are ironically part of the problem.
As regards some of my thoughts; The initial legal presumption should be from a starting point of 50/50 parenting (The term custody should be ditched as it means winner/loser). Mediation and counselling should be mandatory ( In the Uk it is not) Child support should be calculated upon time spent and any expenses accrued through travel arrangements. Moving to another state/country should be prohibited unless either both parents are in agreement or the parent that wants to move forfeits the appropriate % of parenting time. Where there are allegations of DV then these need to be substantiated and proved (In the Uk all you need to do is to 'allege' and some mothers are coached by their solicitors to do exactly that)
Everyone defines fairness differently. Ideally what you want is no court involvement...that everyone has total access to their children and total descretion on what money is spent towards support of those children. However what you refuse to admit is that is could never work. In a world peopled by perfect parents who are perfect people it would. Unfortunately, that is not our world.
Yeah sure ;As I say I know there is no perfect solution but there is a darned better one than what exists here in the Uk and in the US for that matter
My state sets child support based on the amount of time that each parent has with the child as a court order and on the basis of each parent's income. Its actually possible for a parent with primary custody in my state to be paying child support to the parent who only sees the child every other weekend. Do you know what happens in my state? Many fathers and mothers fight for the maximum amount of time with the children as possible (for the purposes of child support) and then totally choose not to exercise ANY or most of that time...or even to contribute to their child's financial needs at all.
Yes I can see this - how dreadful let's use the kids to fight over money. So why not have 50/50 and no child support then both parents can go to work. Or better still maybe many of these parents ought to understand that love, harmony and a good relationship is not a divine right or like a new pair of shoes/car but something they need to work at.
If you finacially reward one partner with the spoils of relationship/family breakdown then they are likely to figure 'oh well I do not need to work at this I can just bugger off and take the money and find somone else to do this to'. There are many women that make a career out of divorce and here I introduce my ex-wife who at 40 years of age has never properly supported herself and instead is now on marriage number 4 with divorce pending!.
There are many men that abandon children and mothers. They need serious punishment too so make it a criminal offence to abandon your children .
We need to put parenting on the school curriculums. We teach our kids to add up, spell, where the north pole is and how to have sex but we do not teach them what to do after they have had sex and children are produced.
This isn't right wing rhetoric but common sense. In the Uk you need a licence to own a dog but bugger all to have a child.
Grow up Terry. These problem have arisen because society has decided that it is no longer "taboo" to have a child without marriage, and that a marriage no longer has to be permanent if one or both partners are unhappy. In some ways that is a good thing and in other ways its isn't.
Thanks again for a personal insult! I consider myself very mature and worldly.
These problems have arisen because of greed pure and simple.
Nevertheless there will always be a need for laws in this arena....and realistically it isn't possible to make laws that guarantee utter fairness...or at least as each individual defines it
I agree that as much as I dislike Lawyers we need laws to protect us from ourselves. But those laws need a radical look at and need to be designed to not reward the lawyers and the satellite industries.
And there lies the major problem.
I would conclude that anyone who wants to intelligently debate this or any other issue without insults can do so via email my email address is terence@oneworld.freeserve.co.uk
Last edited:
Terence Beckham
Member
Yep I agree...so is that a reason for America to follow suit? Of course in any event what goes up ...........comes down.....As the British , Roman, Greek,Ottoman, Soviet etc etc empires all found out.stealth2 said:I was thinking more along the lines of your wonderful empire building. Y'all plumbed your way around the world, at least.
Back To The OP
As a mother of three sons, all different ages, I know that it is very hard to let go, but you may end up doing your son a favor and someday he may thank you for allowing him to go live with his dad.
I think it would be a waste of money fighting this out in court, when you may end up loosing your son to his father anyways.
I know this is a legal site, but in this case maybe just sitting down, talking to your son and allowing him to try the move may be the best idea. I wish you all the luck in the world and I hope this turns out well for you and your son.
As a mother of three sons, all different ages, I know that it is very hard to let go, but you may end up doing your son a favor and someday he may thank you for allowing him to go live with his dad.
I think it would be a waste of money fighting this out in court, when you may end up loosing your son to his father anyways.
I know this is a legal site, but in this case maybe just sitting down, talking to your son and allowing him to try the move may be the best idea. I wish you all the luck in the world and I hope this turns out well for you and your son.
Terence Beckham
Member
Reyna7 said:
Somebody with the right attitude..yep keep the lawyers out of it hopeformom just sit down and work this through and the money that you save from not paying lawyers can go to a good cause i.e your son.