Help with interpretting a clause please

[ray25]

Sorry for the babble....

Unfortunately I have to resurrect my old thread and ask a few questions. I haven't been on for awhile. Life seemed to be settling down and my ex seemed to be settling down in regard to her anger and need to make everything an issue. For a few months she needed an extra hand with the children and I did everything to be as flexible as possible with her schedule and had the children every day while she was at work. Now comes the time for me to ask the same of her, not to have the children every day, but to be flexible and to come up with a new schedule.

The situation is that I had a job that allowed me to leave in the early afternoon. I had the children 3 days a week around that work schedule and then every other weekend. Things have changed dramatically in that regard. I was told that I would be working whenever they felt like scheduling me. It might be 6-3 one day, 10-7 the next, 1-10 another day. This obviously causes a huge rift in the current schedule that I have with the children. I had asked initially if we could work around my schedule. Every two weeks I would have a new one and we could plan around it. I knew the answer would be no but I tried anyway. I was told that the children need a consistent schedule, I would be unreliable, they would never know what was going on, etc. She offered to let me keep my every other weekend IF I didn't have to work one of those days and if I have a day off during the week, I could have the children for a few hours. That isn't acceptable to me. My children are used to me in their lives on an almost daily basis.

Now the kicker to all of that is the fact that HER work schedule is still erratic. She is supposed to pick the children up before dinner time and she always works late. The worst part is that she doesn't even call to say she will be late until she is already at least 20 minutes late. She then will say she will be at my house in about 20 minutes but she isn't until 30-40 minutes later. Only once every two weeks does she come and get the kids at her scheduled time. At least 1 time a month I have the children on one of her normal days because she has some emergency at work that she needs to take care of. I question how she will even make it to pick the children up on time from afterschool at this point.

Now knowing all of that, here is my issue:

I was offered a position at another company today. I plan to take it since I will have a set normal day schedule. I will be out by 5 so I will have plenty of time to pick the children up from afterschool. I also will not have to be at work until 8:30 so I will be able to take the kids to school in the morning. I would like to present to her with yet another schedule suggestion when I tell her I am changing positions. However, I am wondering at this point if it's worth it because no matter what I suggest, it's not what she wants, isn't best for the kids in her eyes, etc. Do I continue to try to negotiate with her and in the process lay all my cards out on the table? Or do I give up at this point because she isn't giving an inch and just file? Will it count for anything that I have put forth the effort and she has refused to even entertain a new schedule?
Some things to note in answering, this is North Carolina and our arrangement right now is through a separation agreement which is the standard way these things are handled in this state. The advantage to that is in not having to prove a substantial change of circumstances since we have never been to court. If I have to go to court then I would be filing for an initial custody/visitation determination. I’ve always been very active in the kid’s lives and I don’t want that to change just because she sees this as an opportunity to cut me out of the picture. I have an appointment with an attorney for next week and I know the last time I was active on this site not many were versed in North Carolina law. That being said, I do value the opinions of the seniors on this site.

 

[LdiJ]

Unfortunately I have to resurrect my old thread and ask a few questions. I haven't been on for awhile. Life seemed to be settling down and my ex seemed to be settling down in regard to her anger and need to make everything an issue. For a few months she needed an extra hand with the children and I did everything to be as flexible as possible with her schedule and had the children every day while she was at work. Now comes the time for me to ask the same of her, not to have the children every day, but to be flexible and to come up with a new schedule.

The situation is that I had a job that allowed me to leave in the early afternoon. I had the children 3 days a week around that work schedule and then every other weekend. Things have changed dramatically in that regard. I was told that I would be working whenever they felt like scheduling me. It might be 6-3 one day, 10-7 the next, 1-10 another day. This obviously causes a huge rift in the current schedule that I have with the children. I had asked initially if we could work around my schedule. Every two weeks I would have a new one and we could plan around it. I knew the answer would be no but I tried anyway. I was told that the children need a consistent schedule, I would be unreliable, they would never know what was going on, etc. She offered to let me keep my every other weekend IF I didn't have to work one of those days and if I have a day off during the week, I could have the children for a few hours. That isn't acceptable to me. My children are used to me in their lives on an almost daily basis.

Now the kicker to all of that is the fact that HER work schedule is still erratic. She is supposed to pick the children up before dinner time and she always works late. The worst part is that she doesn't even call to say she will be late until she is already at least 20 minutes late. She then will say she will be at my house in about 20 minutes but she isn't until 30-40 minutes later. Only once every two weeks does she come and get the kids at her scheduled time. At least 1 time a month I have the children on one of her normal days because she has some emergency at work that she needs to take care of. I question how she will even make it to pick the children up on time from afterschool at this point.

Now knowing all of that, here is my issue:

I was offered a position at another company today. I plan to take it since I will have a set normal day schedule. I will be out by 5 so I will have plenty of time to pick the children up from afterschool. I also will not have to be at work until 8:30 so I will be able to take the kids to school in the morning. I would like to present to her with yet another schedule suggestion when I tell her I am changing positions. However, I am wondering at this point if it's worth it because no matter what I suggest, it's not what she wants, isn't best for the kids in her eyes, etc. Do I continue to try to negotiate with her and in the process lay all my cards out on the table? Or do I give up at this point because she isn't giving an inch and just file? Will it count for anything that I have put forth the effort and she has refused to even entertain a new schedule?
Some things to note in answering, this is North Carolina and our arrangement right now is through a separation agreement which is the standard way these things are handled in this state. The advantage to that is in not having to prove a substantial change of circumstances since we have never been to court. If I have to go to court then I would be filing for an initial custody/visitation determination. I’ve always been very active in the kid’s lives and I don’t want that to change just because she sees this as an opportunity to cut me out of the picture. I have an appointment with an attorney for next week and I know the last time I was active on this site not many were versed in North Carolina law. That being said, I do value the opinions of the seniors on this site.

How old are the children? Does mom have a comparable work schedule to your new one? Are the two of you basically going to be working the same shift? If so, its probably time to pin down a more permanent type schedule and you will have less opportunity to be creative.

It may be time to consider an every other week schedule.

 

[ray25]

How old are the children? Does mom have a comparable work schedule to your new one? Are the two of you basically going to be working the same shift? If so, its probably time to pin down a more permanent type schedule and you will have less opportunity to be creative.

It may be time to consider an every other week schedule.

The children are now 5 and 7. Mom's work schedule is comparable to what my new 8:30-5:00 schedule will be with one exception. I leave at 5 to head home and my day is over. She's always late leaving work.

I am all for an every other week schedule. She isn't going to be agreeable to that at all. She's going to have 50 ways reasons for why it isn't in the children's best interest. I believe that I can prove otherwise in court. I hate to have to take it to that level. Is there any downside you can see in me making an attempt one more time to work this out between us knowing that she's going to shoot me down?

 

[LdiJ]

The children are now 5 and 7. Mom's work schedule is comparable to what my new 8:30-5:00 schedule will be with one exception. I leave at 5 to head home and my day is over. She's always late leaving work.

I am all for an every other week schedule. She isn't going to be agreeable to that at all. She's going to have 50 ways reasons for why it isn't in the children's best interest. I believe that I can prove otherwise in court. I hate to have to take it to that level. Is there any downside you can see in me making an attempt one more time to work this out between us knowing that she's going to shoot me down?

No, there is no downside in trying to work it out with her again. You will likely get sent to mediation anyway. In all reality though, the best thing that I can see in this is that once you have a schedule in place, you will be able to stick to it, and that will definitely benefit your children more than the constant change.

 

[ray25]

Mediation is a requirement but I unfortunately don't see anything being resolved in that regard. Expect the worst but hope for the best I guess.

 

[ray25]

No, there is no downside in trying to work it out with her again. You will likely get sent to mediation anyway. In all reality though, the best thing that I can see in this is that once you have a schedule in place, you will be able to stick to it, and that will definitely benefit your children more than the constant change.

No Dice LD. I tried to work it out but she will not budge. Less time is her only offer. She actually said she wants to be like normal divorced couples with the schedule.

My ex resents my involvement. She doesn't want me at doctor's appointments. She doesn't want me at the school conferences. She doesn't want me attending extra curriculars on her time but wants to attend on mine. She doesn't want flexibility with my schedule but expects it with her own. Everything I do as a parent is wrong, everything she does is perfect.

I see my ex in so many of these posts on this site. People trying to control the other parent, wanting the other parent less involved, constantly finding something stupid to pick apart about the other parent. It seems like a no win, if the parent is active it's like a thorn in someone's side. They must ONLY want overnights to lessen their child support is the theme I read constantly on here. Can't it also be said that maybe the parent's with all the overnights only wants to KEEP them for child support? I realize that many times that does in fact happen but it's not always the case. Father’s ARE capable of loving their children and wanting to be involved. I know that’s a hard sell for a few posters.

The saddest aspect of it all is that the children are the ones to pay the price. The children are the ones caught in the middle. Children shouldn't be a pawn in a game to stick it to the ex. I have spent the past several years trying to make a civil relationship with someone that simply doesn't want one.

So I guess it's time to move on to the next step. It's unfortunate but necessary.

Sorry for the babble....

 

[LdiJ]

No Dice LD. I tried to work it out but she will not budge. Less time is her only offer. She actually said she wants to be like normal divorced couples with the schedule.

My ex resents my involvement. She doesn't want me at doctor's appointments. She doesn't want me at the school conferences. She doesn't want me attending extra curriculars on her time but wants to attend on mine. She doesn't want flexibility with my schedule but expects it with her own. Everything I do as a parent is wrong, everything she does is perfect.

I see my ex in so many of these posts on this site. People trying to control the other parent, wanting the other parent less involved, constantly finding something stupid to pick apart about the other parent. It seems like a no win, if the parent is active it's like a thorn in someone's side. They must ONLY want overnights to lessen their child support is the theme I read constantly on here. Can't it also be said that maybe the parent's with all the overnights only wants to KEEP them for child support? I realize that many times that does in fact happen but it's not always the case. Father’s ARE capable of loving their children and wanting to be involved. I know that’s a hard sell for a few posters.

The saddest aspect of it all is that the children are the ones to pay the price. The children are the ones caught in the middle. Children shouldn't be a pawn in a game to stick it to the ex. I have spent the past several years trying to make a civil relationship with someone that simply doesn't want one.

So I guess it's time to move on to the next step. It's unfortunate but necessary.

Sorry for the babble....

Unfortunately with your previous schedule you had kind of an ideal situation. You traded every other weekend, plus saw your children a great deal during the week, which actually didn't take away from any of the time that mom could see them, because your time during the week was while mom was at work.

Now, with the change in your work schedule, the only way to give you comparable time with the children, is to take time away from mom. Naturally you want to keep the time you have, but naturally she doesn't want to give up any of the time that she has. After all, she loves your children just as much as you do.

So...all you can do is try to divide the time in as fair a manner as possible. That means that you will NOT be seeing your children 3 times a week during the week. Its either going to end up every other week, or its going to end up two weekday nights for you and two weekend nights for mom.

There is also a slight chance that you would end up with every other weekend and one night a week, (unlikely but slight) because its the change in YOUR schedule that would require taking time away from mom to give you comparable time.

Personally, I think that every other week (with a dinner visit for the other parent on the opposite week) is much less disruptive to school aged children than splitting the week. however there are other options as well. I don't know how late mom normally works, but if her schedule was such that you could have the children until 7:00 or 7:30 each night with mom having the rest of the evening until bedtime, that could be fair as well. However, you would each have to take some responsibility for homework and baths if you want to be fair. Otherwise its limits the quality time that either of you can have with the children during the week.

However dad...please understand that there is no way that you can have three nights a week during the week anymore and be remotely fair. That would leave only 1 night a week for mom and every other weekend. Since obviously YOU don't want to accept that schedule you cannot expect mom to accept it either...nor would a judge accept that because its the change in YOUR schedule that is requiring a change in the visitation schedule.

 

[ray25]

So...all you can do is try to divide the time in as fair a manner as possible. That means that you will NOT be seeing your children 3 times a week during the week. Its either going to end up every other week, or its going to end up two weekday nights for you and two weekend nights for mom.

All I want is something fair but please understand that this isn't about fair for her (in regard to her attitude). I have the kids 3 nights a week now. My schedule is changing yes but i'm still out of work before she is. She's still going to call last minute asking me to take kids on her days so she can work. I have no problem with two nights and offered 2 with me, 2 with her, rotate weekends. She just won't go for overnights. She is willing to let them stay until past their bedtime, but not overnight


Personally, I think that every other week (with a dinner visit for the other parent on the opposite week) is much less disruptive to school aged children than splitting the week. however there are other options as well.

That's what I originally asked for but she said no way.

I don't know how late mom normally works, but if her schedule was such that you could have the children until 7:00 or 7:30 each night with mom having the rest of the evening until bedtime, that could be fair as well. However, you would each have to take some responsibility for homework and baths if you want to be fair. Otherwise its limits the quality time that either of you can have with the children during the week.

I do homework now at least 3 nights a week or more if I have them on her nights.

However dad...please understand that there is no way that you can have three nights a week during the week anymore and be remotely fair. That would leave only 1 night a week for mom and every other weekend. Since obviously YOU don't want to accept that schedule you cannot expect mom to accept it either...nor would a judge accept that because its the change in YOUR schedule that is requiring a change in the visitation schedule.

LD - Mom's schedule has changed 3 times this past year for work. I have accommodated all those changes every time. Yes my schedule is changing but I'm still out of work before her. I also will now have the ability to take the kids to school in the mornings where I couldn't before. I'm not trying to give mom less time. I think we should both have equal time. I think we should be able to come up with a schedule that allows for that. The other wonderful advantage to overnights would be drop offs at school and less interact between her and I. Exchanges are the time that she uses to scream at me for whatever issue she's having at the time. It's not good for the kids.

Please keep in mind that I am not dealing with an ex that can see both sides nor am I dealing with one that can put the needs of the kids first. If she's not screaming at me in person she's calling me to scream at me for something that happened at my house that she doesn't agree with. The kids are interrogated the moment they get in the car and she freely admits she does this because she has the right to know what goes on in HER children's lives. I'm just completely frustrated at the moment but understand despite all of this, I still attempt to co-parent with her. I just want equal time, not less and not for the reasons she gives when they are contradictory to her own actions.

 

[mom482]

It's nice that you two could work it out for a while, and that you made extra effort to 'negotiate' - but if you've reached the point that it isn't working - just file. make sure you have a proposed - detailed including holidays - parenting plan to submit at mediation or a hearing. 3-1-3 custody is good for that age. its an every other week schedule - w/ the non custodial parent of the week getting wednesday overnight on their 'off' week. that way young children don't go a whole week w/o seeing the other parent yet they have the stability your ex mentioned she wanted for the children. you might want to add that each of you will give first right of refusal should the custodial parent need child care during their custodial time.
who knows maybe the filing will prompt her to be more agreeable - but i believe a court order that allows 5050 for 2 involved parents is the easiest way out of this. you aren't together, you don't agree, and the kids deserve a schedule for each of you.

 

[LdiJ]

LD - Mom's schedule has changed 3 times this past year for work. I have accommodated all those changes every time. Yes my schedule is changing but I'm still out of work before her. I also will now have the ability to take the kids to school in the mornings where I couldn't before. I'm not trying to give mom less time. I think we should both have equal time. I think we should be able to come up with a schedule that allows for that. The other wonderful advantage to overnights would be drop offs at school and less interact between her and I. Exchanges are the time that she uses to scream at me for whatever issue she's having at the time. It's not good for the kids.

Please keep in mind that I am not dealing with an ex that can see both sides nor am I dealing with one that can put the needs of the kids first. If she's not screaming at me in person she's calling me to scream at me for something that happened at my house that she doesn't agree with. The kids are interrogated the moment they get in the car and she freely admits she does this because she has the right to know what goes on in HER children's lives. I'm just completely frustrated at the moment but understand despite all of this, I still attempt to co-parent with her. I just want equal time, not less and not for the reasons she gives when they are contradictory to her own actions.

Again, I just wanted to make sure that you understand that if you want fairness, its got to be 50/50...which means you will both having less time with the children than you are used to having.