HOA Foreclosure Dilemma

[RileyB]

Um...quite impressive. Now, why did you make so many obvious mistakes up front? Please explain to me:
1. Why you used the term "improper service" when the complaint was missing pages? As your Supreme Court has said:
So, I'm assuming that when you said "a request through the court seeking proper service" you made a motion regarding a Rule 4(d) violation where the complaint was not served with the summons. But, since a "complaint" (per Rule 8) I'm thinking someone as wise as yourself would know something "missing several numbered pages in the middle of the pleading" would qualify as a complaint. But, I didn't see what was missing so I can't be sure. However, I still suspect a demurrer would have been more appropriate.

2. "Validation" has a particular meaning in debt collection that simply does not apply here so I will assume someone as competent as yourself knows that and only meant it as a general term and not as legal jargon. With that in mind, can one ask for and expect to get discovery in an answer in your state? Or, did you mean you lacked information and belief regarding the amount claimed, deny?

3. Who is the proper person to communicate with in a lawsuit against a represented party? While, as pro per, it doesn't really cause a legal problem--don't forget the rule if you ever become an attorney.

4. What did you think the outcome would be if you never did discovery regarding an accounting of what you owed?

5. When you say, "law student (final year)" I would assume you're taking the Bar next year. But, you earlier said you will "graduate next year with a BS in Legal Studies" which would more qualify you for a job as a paralegal. Which is it? Taking the Bar or no?

If you have read a foreclosure complaint, you know it contains information highly pertinent to the case and establishes the grounds upon which the Plaintiff seeks relief. The missing pages in my case contained critical details. A defendant cannot properly respond to the Complaint if these grounds are not known, as they were not in my case. So yes, my motion was under the SCRCP and my later answer denied the allegations based on information and belief. Before I could file any discovery pleadings, the loan servicer paid the HOA and the case was discharged.

My communication was with the HOA's management company - they interact with residents in all aspects from newsletters to billing, and were not a party to the foreclosure suit - began before the suit was filed.

Nope, two more years before I take the Bar.

 

[Indiana Filer]

Nope, two more years before I take the Bar.

Try again. If you won't receive your BS until next year, you won't be taking the bar exam a year after that. No way will you complete law school in one year.

 

[RileyB]

Wow, people, a lot of animosity toward a poster genuinely seeking advice....

 

[justalayman]

Wow, people, a lot of animosity toward a poster genuinely seeking advice....

well, when faced with dishonesty and a poster with an attitude all of their own, what would you really expect?



just in case you want to argue that honesty statement:

I am a law student (final year), have clerked for a state supreme court, have advised my state legislature on bills regarding mortgage and foreclosure fraud (as well as being an active advocate on these issues) and finally, am an ace at househo

Nope, two more years before I take the Bar.

.

I will graduate next year with a BS in Legal Studies and have stumbled along as best I can with my limited knowledge.

first, (but is excusable since you apparently do not know) but a LAW STUDENT generally refers to a student in a LAW SCHOOL. So, if you were in your final year, you would typically be known as an L3 being in your third year of law school. If so, that would mean you could take the bar next year, if you would graduate.

Law school is also considered post graduate studies. Since you have not obtained your BS/BA yet, you are an undergrad and as such, not considered to be a law student at all. You may be in pre-law but that's about the best you will get.


So, since you are in your final year of a BS program, that means it is going to be 4 school years before you set for the Bar (this year plus 3 years of law school)


so, as I said, when a poster displays dishonesty in their statements, they are going to be treated differently than one that appears to be honest. If speaking to a person, wouldn't you treat them differently if you knew they were a liar?

So, if you want advice, there are some very intelligent people that post here and they freely give advice when asked. Slapping them is a good way to get no advice and likely, a bit of a chastising to boot.

 

[tranquility]

If you have read a foreclosure complaint, you know it contains information highly pertinent to the case and establishes the grounds upon which the Plaintiff seeks relief. The missing pages in my case contained critical details. A defendant cannot properly respond to the Complaint if these grounds are not known, as they were not in my case. So yes, my motion was under the SCRCP and my later answer denied the allegations based on information and belief. Before I could file any discovery pleadings, the loan servicer paid the HOA and the case was discharged.

My communication was with the HOA's management company - they interact with residents in all aspects from newsletters to billing, and were not a party to the foreclosure suit - began before the suit was filed.

Nope, two more years before I take the Bar.

So, it was not an improper service. And, a couple more years before the Bar, and some years after that for marginal competence.

You are free to point out the many errors I made in my sincere attempt to help. I'd especially love to know the legal errors I made.

 

[RileyB]

Oh, fertheluvofptete. This is the internet and I am motivated to protect my privacy. That means you don't get - nor are you entitled to - full details regarding my education. Have I been dishonest? Absolutely not. I am attending two schools simultaneously, take full summer courses, and will gain my JD at a third. If all goes as carefully planned, I will be eligible to sit for the bar in late 2015, perhaps early 2016. Assuming I can maintain this insanely accelerated course.

Yes, it was improper service. "I HEREBY CERTIFY that a true and correct copy of the above and foregoing has been furnished by U.S. Mail to..." Rules for Civil Procedure. Does any of this sound familiar to you? Proper service means no missing pages in the middle and the time period required for my Answer does not commence until proper service is completed. I am also well familiar with the SC magistrates who handle such cases. I haven't traveled to the court clerk's office to confirm this, but I'd wager there is a good chance the Complaint filed with the court was also missing most of the middle pages. I'd also wager that the judge ultimately signing any judgment decree would never even notice.

I came here to seek advice regarding what I felt were unusual circumstances that presented differing avenues for resolution. I admitted my lack of competence in this particular circumstance. Justalayman offered some avenues to explore and it was appreciated. Other posters made assumptions regarding my financial competence, my stated education, and the usual smackdown for my Pro Se status.

Which, now that I have browsed other forums, I understand to be the norm here.

 

[justalayman]

.

Have I been dishonest? Absolutely not.

absolutely yes.

I am attending two schools simultaneously, take full summer courses, and will gain my JD at a third. If all goes as carefully planned, I will be eligible to sit for the bar in late 2015, perhaps early 2016. Assuming I can maintain this insanely accelerated course.

can we all get together for a rousing chorus cheer:

bull****

bull****

bull****




please provide an ABA approved law school that gives entry to an undergrad

then, please provide an ABA approved law school that has summer classes

then, please provide an ABA approved law school where is is actually possible to complete their curriculum in less than 2 years (giving you the benefit of the doubt here)

and if you are not attending an ABA approved school, just what state are you planning on setting for the Bar in?

Yes, it was improper service. "I HEREBY CERTIFY that a true and correct copy of the above and foregoing has been furnished by U.S. Mail to..." Rules for Civil Procedure. Does any of this sound familiar to you? Proper service means no missing pages in the middle and the time period required for my Answer does not commence until proper service is completed.

Ohfortheloveofpete; you're wrong but I'm not going to bother explaining why



but that is all irrelevant since your lender paid the bill.

I am also well familiar with the SC magistrates who handle such cases. I haven't traveled to the court clerk's office to confirm this, but I'd wager there is a good chance the Complaint filed with the court was also missing most of the middle pages. I'd also wager that the judge ultimately signing any judgment decree would never even notice.

why would the judge sign anything? The complaint was dropped upon payment by your lender. IF they had not paid, then it would, presumably, end up before a court where you, being the astute guy you are, would address the missing pages, if you had not already.

 

[RileyB]

Schools - what, so internet trolls can track me down? No thanks. My courses have been carefully choreographed across schools to ensure transfer credits and all that I will need and yes, ABA approved. Maybe you should expand your horizons a little and consider that it IS possible?

Don't bother explaining why service was perfected - because you can't. It wasn't and you know it. The 30-day time for my response to be filed did not begin to toll until service was perfected. You know that also and any decent attorney would insist on proper service, both to ensure he received the full Complaint, but also to ensure a timely Answer. Yes, I could have filed an Answer without the full Complaint, but I also know how the system works in my state. It would not have been a wise move.

Regarding foreclosure judges, I was speaking not of my own case. In working with foreclosure defendants, I routinely see judges enter judgments without reviewing the Complaint or any documentation. As I said, it's a turn-and-burn industry supported by most attorneys and many judges...the former are usually not knowledgeable enough to raise an affirmative defense and the latter seemingly perplexed and offended by defendants who aren't willing to play along. I could fill 10 forum pages with horror stories.

 

[TheGeekess]

Schools - what, so internet trolls can track me down? No thanks. My courses have been carefully choreographed across schools to ensure transfer credits and all that I will need and yes, ABA approved. Maybe you should expand your horizons a little and consider that it IS possible?

Don't bother explaining why service was perfected - because you can't. It wasn't and you know it. The 30-day time for my response to be filed did not begin to toll until service was perfected. You know that also and any decent attorney would insist on proper service, both to ensure he received the full Complaint, but also to ensure a timely Answer. Yes, I could have filed an Answer without the full Complaint, but I also know how the system works in my state. It would not have been a wise move.

Regarding foreclosure judges, I was speaking not of my own case. In working with foreclosure defendants, I routinely see judges enter judgments without reviewing the Complaint or any documentation. As I said, it's a turn-and-burn industry supported by most attorneys and many judges...the former are usually not knowledgeable enough to raise an affirmative defense and the latter seemingly perplexed and offended by defendants who aren't willing to play along. I could fill 10 forum pages with horror stories.

Alrighty then.

 

[Ohiogal]

Psst.. you know I love you but...

please provide an ABA approved law school that gives entry to an undergrad

Don't know of one.

then, please provide an ABA approved law school that has summer classes

Mine did and I took summer classes.

then, please provide an ABA approved law school where is is actually possible to complete their curriculum in less than 2 years (giving you the benefit of the doubt here)

Nope. Even with summer classes and going full time you are still looking at 2.5 years.

and if you are not attending an ABA approved school, just what state are you planning on setting for the Bar in?

California I believe allows it.

 

[CourtClerk]

Schools - what, so internet trolls can track me down? No thanks

Kid... if you haven't figured it out by now, you're debating law school with a couple of folks who have BEEN in law school, sat for the BAR, passed it and are now real life, breathing, paid ATTORNEYS. Quit while you're ahead, no one here cares enough about you to try and track you down.

 

[Ohiogal]

Schools - what, so internet trolls can track me down? No thanks. My courses have been carefully choreographed across schools to ensure transfer credits and all that I will need and yes, ABA approved. Maybe you should expand your horizons a little and consider that it IS possible?

Don't bother explaining why service was perfected - because you can't. It wasn't and you know it. The 30-day time for my response to be filed did not begin to toll until service was perfected. You know that also and any decent attorney would insist on proper service, both to ensure he received the full Complaint, but also to ensure a timely Answer. Yes, I could have filed an Answer without the full Complaint, but I also know how the system works in my state. It would not have been a wise move.

Regarding foreclosure judges, I was speaking not of my own case. In working with foreclosure defendants, I routinely see judges enter judgments without reviewing the Complaint or any documentation. As I said, it's a turn-and-burn industry supported by most attorneys and many judges...the former are usually not knowledgeable enough to raise an affirmative defense and the latter seemingly perplexed and offended by defendants who aren't willing to play along. I could fill 10 forum pages with horror stories.

Funny since the ABA requires an undergrad degree to enter a law school. And law school is a minimum of three years once you have been admitted (unless you fast track and you can be done in 2.5). You should consider expanding your horizons. As in reading what the ABA requires out of a law school in order to accredit it.

http://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/publications/misc/legal_education/Standards/2013_2014_standards_chapter3.authcheckdam.pdf
http://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/publications/misc/legal_education/Standards/2013_2014_standards_chapter5.authcheckdam.pdf
Note that in Chapter Five before registering you are required to provide a transcript on file showing a Bachelor's degree.
Also you would have had to take the LSAT.

 

[justalayman]

Psst.. you know I love you but...


Don't know of one.


Mine did and I took summer classes.



Nope. Even with summer classes and going full time you are still looking at 2.5 years.


California I believe allows it.

that was my point on the first one. Second one; still unreasonable goals for the OP

Presuming he grads with BA/BS this semester, that means late 2016 at the earliest. OP is claiming late 2015 with early 2016 at the lates.

as to California:

LEGAL EDUCATION


J. D. degree from a law school accredited by the State Bar of California or approved by the ABA;
Four years of study at a fixed-facility law school registered with the Committee;

Four years of study, with a minimum of 864 hours of preparation and study per year, at an unaccredited distance-learning or correspondence law school registered with the Committee;

Four years of study in the law office/judge’s chambers study program;
or
A combination of these methods.

going to take 4 years if a non-aba accredited school so that counts out the OP taking the California Bar based on his claims of educational path.

 

[tranquility]

Don't bother explaining why service was perfected - because you can't. It wasn't and you know it. The 30-day time for my response to be filed did not begin to toll until service was perfected. You know that also and any decent attorney would insist on proper service, both to ensure he received the full Complaint, but also to ensure a timely Answer. Yes, I could have filed an Answer without the full Complaint, but I also know how the system works in my state. It would not have been a wise move.

The reason pro per get grief is because they are stubborn and know they are right, especially when they aren't. First, a minor point. You might review the term "toll" in regards to legal jargon.

More importantly, when you take your class in civil procedure, you will find you read a bunch of cases and not a bunch of forms. In those cases you will find your state's pleading requirement is what is known as notice pleading. Some of those cases will deal with the issue of if huge multi-page complaints comply with the requirement of a short and plain statement of the grounds for the suit. In other words, early cases discussed as to if writing more than required could be considered a valid complaint. Now, while your state requires some other things as well, it seems what you have described fulfills the legal requirement. How do I know? Because YOU know what all the folderol was about. That is all that is really required. Notice you are getting sued and why.

 

[justalayman]

Folderol? Seriously; folderol?

I have to say, regardless of any issues i may have ever had with you Tranquility, i always enjoy reading your posts and your mastery of the English language.