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I fear I am about to be wrongfully terminated. Can you help?

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baylor3217

Junior Member
I've completed my response. I kept itvery positive and played up my long term commitment to the company the last 10 years. I also stated I appreciated the constructive feedback and am very coachable.

Maybe they won't even read it, but i decided not to dispute what they wrote in the PIP (performance improvement plan) as they didn't even ask my opinion on any of the he said / she said stuff so they obviously already believe it and I'm not going to be able to write something that will change their mind.
 


baylor3217

Junior Member
Is there a risk i might not get unemployment if they fire me? i haven't had to do that but once and that was in 2001 so the rules etc may have changed a lot.
 

commentator

Senior Member
No, the rules haven't changed. But when you are fired, if the employer can show they had a valid misconduct reason to terminate you, with progressive disciplines and warnings, so that you KNEW your job was in jeopardy, then they could fire you and you would not be approved for unemployment, which as I said before, they do not want you to get, because it will cost them money.

But as I also said, performance issues are tricky to fire someone with and get them denied. As long as you were doing your best, as you clearly and repeatedly state, and you did not know that your performance was inadequate, you didn't know that your job was in jeopardy until this warning, as you say, then your chances are pretty good.

It's fairly common for employers to try to fire someone this way. It isn't a bad thing to have had good performance evaluations up to this point. Especially when you have worked for an employer for any significant amount of time, and they were bragging on your work, then you suddenly find yourself with "not meeting performance standards" when you insist that you were still doing your best, still trying to meet every expectation, they're not likely going to see that as misconduct.

Say you got on drugs, were having serious personal issues, and decided to start sleeping under your desk instead of doing the job,(I once saw a case where the employer had this on video!) or you got mad at the bosses and deliberately started messing up the work or processes, that's performance misconduct.

They have to show that you were doing the job, were capable of doing the job, and that you actually by your own choice decided to not do the job or not do it as well. And of course, you are saying, under oath, repeatedly that you were always doing your job to the best of your abilities. You may mention that you feel you were targeted. The unemployment workers have seen many things of this sort before. They're going to be neutral if possible, but they understand that every financial advantage would be to the employer to keep you from receiving benefits, and they're going to go with the more believable testimony.

But hang on, let them actually terminate you if they will. Don't quit, because then your chances of showing that you quit the job for a valid work related reason is much smaller. They know that, thus they will try to encourage resignations as opposed to termination.

Most people are terribly sadly unaware of how few rights an employee actually has, especially in very employer-friendly states like Texas, until the rug actually gets pulled out from under them personally. Yes, I'm afraid they certainly can do this to you, and unemployment insurance, if you are approved, is your only recourse.
 
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What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Texas

I was called in by my boss and a representative last week whereby they proceeded to talk to me for 90 minutes about my "poor performance". In the end, I was handed a document detailing (although very generally with little to no specifics) what we had discussed.

I was told they plan to meet with me again in about a month to follow up on my performance.

I have been an employee of this privately held company for a decade. On each of my reviews for a decade now, I've been a "Meeting expectations" or "Exceeds".

In fact, I was given a bonus less than a month ago with a letter stating in short that I was receiving this bonus, something I've never received in the decade I've been here, for "recognition for your performance and dedication to the company in 2014".

Let me know out a few bullet points to maybe help the smart people on here respond in a more organized fashion to my questions and concerns:

1) I was told this was my "second strike". I asked what the first strike was and they said I was given a "formal verbal warning" in late January. Those words were never used with me during that discussion which I'm not even sure I recall. To make something an official verbal warning, should I have received something in writing to make that stick? COuldn't it just be a he said / she said otherwise? They seem to be using that to set me up to expedite my termination even though I never officially knew I had a 1st strike

2) The document I received has little to no specifics. It says things like "we have observed unacceptable behavior. Specifically, you allow your staff to work with little to no direct supervision." No specific examples or dates are given. THat's all it says. Is it wrong to ask for specifics? I'm not even sure what they're talking about. I'm doing the same thing I've been doing for a decade.

3) A new person was recently hired to implement a new process. I worked very little with her, but the perception is the new process she was hired to implement didn't go as perfectly as it could have. It was by no means a failure, but it seems she is being blamed for the short comings and possibly shifting the blame to me. Again this is a he said / she said. I've never been given this feedback before but she showed up 4 months ago and now all the sudden I'm on my 2nd strike in less than 2 months. Knowing that management will likely take her side since she's one of them, how can I make this point clear without being overly defensive?

4) The direction I was given for the next 30 days was to "effective immediately, I expect you will be actively involved in the deficiency resolution process over the next several weeks." I'm already actively involved in it every single day. SHouldn't they have to give me more specifics on what I'm not currently doing and how I could do it to their satisfaction? Again, they didn't set any expectation there would be weekly touch points with them to review my performance. Nothing. Just a meeting in a month where it seems they will likely say I wasn't "actively involved" and then I will get terminated.

5) I'm probably going to be asked to sign this document early this coming week. The way it is written is so vague and un-specific and subjective that I in no way agree with what's written, nor can I tell specifically what I've all the sudden done wrong in the last 3 months to have TWO STRIKES against be and about to be walked out the door after 10 years of dedication and quality service to the company. SHould I not sign it? Should I require that they amend it or be more specific before I sign it? There's a place for comments, but signing it seems like I'm endorsing their feedback and I want myself to be in as defendable a position as possible should I Have to get a lawyer.

5) As a female in my late 30s, I'm not sure what recourse I have here. I appear to be being thrown under the bus by another female that arrived 120 days ago and didn't effectively do her job. Should I ultimately be terminated here in 30 days, 1) should I go ahead and get a lawyer now and if I got one now, or later, what difference would it make? What possible positive outcome would that have for me before being fired or after being terminated I do really like this job or I wouldn't have stayed here for a decade. I can't believe my company isn't standing by me so it seems something else may be at play here (maybe I'm paid too much now. Maybe they want to squeeze me out so they can put one of the new people's friends in my position).

Either way, I am extremely disappointed that a career I've worked a decade to grow and maintain a longstanding positive reputation appears to be 1 strike away from being taken away from me with a meeting that randomly occurred last week.

6) It's also clear to me that my company may have done a few things that are technically illegal. I am afraid to bring it up as they may just use that against me, but if it could defend my job, I may have to so any insight on what I should do there would be appreciated as well.

Do you have any suggestions on how I can protect myself from this wrongful action?

Apologies in advance for the long post but i wanted to provide as much detail as I could. I'm sure everyone in this situation feels like they are being wrongfully singled out, but after a decade of quality reviews, a bonus award 30 days ago for my good performance and now to all the sudden have 2 strikes and being 1 strike away from losing this job, I can't sit back and take this injustice. Please help.

Thank you

I can certainly sympathize with anyone who has worked a decade and then finds themselves getting pushed out the door. On top of that, the thought of an employer trying to prevent such employee from even getting UI benefits is disgusting! If I were such an employee, I'd try my best to exploit anything I could to let such company know there are consequences for their actions.

You mentioned something about your employer doing something 'techically illegal'. What exactly is it that they did that was illegal? Did such illegal activity affect you? Did you resent it and it showed? If so, maybe that is why they are suddenly trying to construct your termination. If the illegal activity involves safety for example, you can report it to OSHA and as a Whistleblower, if suddenly you are terminated after reporting an illegal activity, it could easily be regarded as a wrongful termination.

There are other organizations that scrutinize illegal activities committed by employers regarding other issues like fraud, which you can approach and file a complaint that would offer you 'whistleblower' protection as well.
 

cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
The poster hasn't even been terminated yet, let alone had the employer contest unemployment benefits.

As for anything the employer has done being "technically illegal", while it is not absolutely clear if the poster was talking about a hypothetical firing being illegal, or something else, since the poster was quite wrong about anything s/he described in the thread as being illegal, I think there is room for a healthy dose of skepticism as to the illegality of anything else the employer may be up to.
 

eerelations

Senior Member
And we have already advised the OP (numerous posts ago) that if she reported these "technically illegal" things (whatever they may be) to the appropriate regulatory authorities, she might have whistleblower protection. But we also advised her that that protection extends only to the whistleblowing. She has chosen not to go that route.
 

baylor3217

Junior Member
I'm going to set up a meeting with an employment lawyer for a free consultation.

Are there any good questions you would recommend i ask?

Are there questions or information I should avoid asking or giving?
 

eerelations

Senior Member
I'm going to set up a meeting with an employment lawyer for a free consultation.

Are there any good questions you would recommend i ask?

Are there questions or information I should avoid asking or giving?

Why have you wasted everyone's time? Not only that, why are you about to waste the lawyer's time? And your own time?

As we have told you over and over and over [bang head against wall emoticon here], you cannot sue your employer. Period.

You can only sue your employer if your employer has done something illegal. Your employer has done nothing illegal. Which means you don't have grounds for a lawsuit. And if you don't have grounds for a lawsuit, you cannot file suit!

Even if your employer fires you, it would not be an illegal termination. Which means you still won't have grounds for a lawsuit.

I'm done wasting my time on this thread. OP your stubborn refusal to understand the simplest of concepts (even when they're presented to you over and over by multiple legal experts) is giving me a pretty good idea why your employer wants to fire you.
 

cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
If you are determined to take this further, you should be much more forthcoming with the attorney about the things your employer has done that you believe are "technically illegal". Because based on what you have posted here, as you have been told multiple times and rather forcefully just now by ee, nothing in your post suggests that your employer has done anything illegal, technically or not. At worst, they have not managed things perfectly but you do not get to sue them for poor management.

So THAT's what you need to tell the attorney. EXACTLY what the employer has done that you think is in any way illegal. Because NOTHING you have posted indicates ANYTHING illegal. If you've got something you haven't told us that you think violates the law, tell it to the attorney, because otherwise you got nuthin'.
 

Pooja Dixit

Junior Member
Wrongful termination

As I have said before, and as others have said, you cannot sue your employer if your employer has not done anything illegal.
 

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