I really NEED some info

[oiseeyuronhere]

What is the name of your state?NY About 3 years ago my father had his Will drawn up. Under the advise of the lawyer he had a quik deed done and my name put on the deed. This was done because my father has 2 other grown children, my brothers who are dead beats, in and out of jail and prison, and live off anyone that will allow them to do so. I was not raised by my father and my life was hell at the hands of a step father. So to provide for me now and my children as I am a single parent, my father bought this home as a means to help me. Problem, about a year and half ago I was injured at work and am still fighting workers comp and undergoing surgeries and also suffered a personal injury and am 70& disabled in my left hand and "not able to perform any work that would provide substantial, gainful income". My credit card debt is about $36,000.00 and I have only been unable to pay for about the past 6 months as my savings ran out. I recvd a notice in the mail from one cc company with a copy of the tax bill with my name on it that shows me as "co-owner" of the house. I contacted Legal Aid where I live about 2 weeks ago to file bankruptsy and haven't heard back from them. I also havent told my father as he would probably go through the roof. Can a credit card company put a lien on this house or is there a NY law against this and do I actually "own" this house? My dad is still paying the mortgage on this house and it's only valued at $30.000.00 as he bought it as an estate sale. The mother died and the son lived out of state and wanted to get rid of the house asap. Help please with some of my questions, waiting to hear from legal aid is killing me and I don't have the money to go to the lawyers and pay. Although I still have to come up with the $209.00 to file through legal aid. A big reduction in cost but still alot to me.

 

[dlbennett620]

I am a real estate paralegal in NY. The quit claim deed was a way for your father to put your name on the property without having to "warrant" the property as a normal "warranty deed" would have. You are now listed as an owner on the property as long as the quit claim deed, RP-5217 and TP-584 were filed in the county where the property is located. All three of these documents are required to be recorded at the same time or the papers will be rejected from the county clerk's office. If these documents have not been recorded with the county clerk, then you are not listed as an owner and the property is still deeded to your father or whoever originally purchased the property or the current deed holder, whoever that may be (you can also find out this information if you visit the county clerk's office in the county where the property is located).

If you do not know if the documents were filed, you can go to the county clerk's office and search their documents or request the documents (for a nominal fee) from the county clerk. Depending upon the county, you may even be able to search the documents on the county clerk's website. I work in Albany County and their website allows the public to print the recorded documents with the date, recorded date, liber and page information.

If you are listed on the Deed to the property, you are an owner of the property and a lien for an unpaid debt may be put upon the property (although I am unsure if credit card companies would do this). I am not very familiar with the bankruptcy law, but if you do claim bankruptcy and you have real property (the house/property), then you may not be able to file the bankruptcy. If you do file, the bankruptcy judge may order the property sold and all debts paid and the mortgage company/bank would have priority before any other liens on the property. Also, as your father currently holds a Mortgage on the property, he would have to either pay the lien(s) or pay the debt collectors in order to keep the lien off of the property and keep the title to the property clean (without any judgments or liens - besides the mortgage). If your father ever tries to sell the property, he would have to pay off his mortgage and whatever other liens are put on the property as a condition of the sale (if he sold the house for more than what is owed on the mortgage, liens and/or outstanding taxes on the property, he would receive the difference after all liens are paid).

You should definitely consult an attorney in your area or see if Legal Aid is able to assist you. You may also qualify for pro bono work from an attorney in your area. I would contact the NY attorney referral service for a referral in your area (an online search engine should help you locate the link and/or information). You could then contact the attorneys directly and see if they would be willing to take your case as a pro bono service (no fee). Many attorneys will handle a limited number of pro bono cases per year, you will need to research to find one. Good luck to you.

Diane

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I am not an attorney.

 

[Ladynred]

I am not very familiar with the bankruptcy law, but if you do claim bankruptcy and you have real property (the house/property), then you may not be able to file the bankruptcy.

Well, Diane, you really need to just stick with RE law !

It is absolutely NOT true that you can't file for bankruptcy if you own property !

NYS, like all the rest, have exemptions from judgments that would probably protect most if not all of the poster's share of the equity in the home !

If you do file, the bankruptcy judge may order the property sold and all debts paid and the mortgage company/bank would have priority before any other liens on the property.

Wrong again. The only way the TRUSTEE could sieze the property is if the exemption wouldn't cover the poster's share of the equity and since there is more than 1 person on the deed, the Trustee may not be able to sieze it at all.

 

[dlbennett620]

Well Ladynred - you don't live in NY so how the hell do you think you know everything? And if you had read my whole post and not just started running your mouth you would have seen where I said "If you do file, the bankruptcy judge may order the property sold . . ."

I also indicated that I am not an attorney and I instructed the the person who posted to consult Legal Aid and an attorney. DUH!!!!

Ladynred - GET A LIFE!

As your email also states "I am not a lawyer or a member of the legal profession." - you aren't even a member of the legal profession. So maybe you should stick to what you know best - which doesn't seem to include knowing when to shut up.

 

[Ladynred]

MEEOOOOOOWWW !! A little defensive, aren't we ??

Well, Diane, I may not live in NY NOW but I grew up there and still consider it my HOME state, so who's running her mouth now ??? I still have family there, my sister works for the State. I've been thru the NY statutes more times than I can count over the years and I DO know quite a bit about the bankruptcy code, and NY's exemptions, something you clearly do NOT know.

I don't have to be a lawyer here, so put a sock in it. I may not have a law degree, but I DO study and check references, statutes and sometimes case law when necessary. I spent 4 years working, and being trained by, some high-powered DC lawyers when I worked for a consulting firm that did a LOT litigation support. I did a LOT of work that paralegals usually do and got training from the lawyers when I needed it, so don't go scratching and hissing at me 'cause I stepped on your toes and you think your certification as a paralegal makes you something special.

 

[dlbennett620]

I am not going to get into an argument with someone who is not worth my time or effort.

Good luck to the original poster with their situation.

Enjoy your day!

 

[Ladynred]

ME EITHER !!

Why don't you just go to the real estate forum, at least there you just MIGHT know what you're talking about.

 

[dlbennett620]

Ladynred

You are a miserable human being. Bad Karma!

 

[Ladynred]

DITTO !!

Boy.. some people just cannot take criticism.

 

[dlbennett620]

Ladynred

Before you start giving people in NY advice as you do NOT live in NY (anymore and haven't lived in NY in years), you should do your homework and as you say "KNOWLEDGE IS POWER - use it as you see fit". You need more knowledge before you run your mouth and criticize other people.

As per NY law - "You will not lose your home or car during your bankruptcy case as long as your equity in the property is fully exempt. Even if your property is not fully exempt you may still be able to keep your property by filing a chapter 13 bankruptcy instead of a chapter 7 bankruptcy. In a chapter 13 plan you will be required to pay at least the equivalent of the non-exempt equity you have in your home or car and any amount you are behind on your home or car loan over the course of the three to five plan. You also will be required to continue making the regular monthly payments."

As per NY law - "In a chapter 7 case, you can keep all the property which is exempt from the claims of creditors. In determining whether property is exempt, you must keep a few things in mind. The value of property is not the amount you paid for it, but what it is worth now. Generally the trustee is interested in the resale value of your property so for most personal effects this is the garage sale value of your property.

You also only need to look at your equity in property. This means that you count your exemptions against the full value minus any money that you owe on mortgages or liens. For example, if you own a $50,000 house with a $40,000 mortgage, you count your exemptions against the $10,000 equity you have in the home. While your exemptions allow you to keep property even in a chapter 7 case, your exemptions do not make any difference to the right of a mortgage holder or car loan creditor to take the property to cover the debt if you are behind. If you are behind in payments and can afford to make the loan payment and to make the amount you are behind over a period of three to five years you should consider a chapter 13 bankruptcy.

In a chapter 13 case, you can keep all of your property if your plan meets the requirements of the bankruptcy law. In most cases you will have to pay the mortgages or liens as you would if you didn't file bankruptcy."

As per NY law - "In Chapter 7 bankruptcy, whether or not you will lose your house depends on the amount of equity you have in the property and the amount of any homestead exemption (which varies state-to-state) to which you are entitled.

If the total amount of debt against your house is less than the market value, you may lose your house unless a homestead exemption entitles you to all or most of the equity."

As per NY law - "You lose no property in Chapter 13. In Chapter 7, you select property you are eligible to keep from either a list of state exemptions or exemptions provided in the federal Bankruptcy Code. Most debtors use the exemptions provided by their state.

Equity in your home, called a homestead exemption. Under the Bankruptcy Code, you can exempt up to $17,425 of equity. Some states have no homestead exemption; others allow debtors to protect all or most of the equity in their home."

New York Homestead Exemption
Real property including co-op, condo or mobile home, to $10,000 (New York Exemption Code) 5206(a)

Husband & wife may double (New York Exemption Code) In re Pearl, 723 F.2d 193 (2nd Cir. 1983)


In my original email to oiseeyuronhere, I said "If you do file, the bankruptcy judge may order the property sold and all debts paid and the mortgage company/bank would have priority before any other liens on the property."

Nowhere in my post to oiseeyuronhere did I mention the house would automatically and definitely be taken. I said the property MAY be ordered to be sold.

Now - Ladynred, the law in Tennessee (the state you actually DO live in)

$5000; $7500 for joint owners (Tennessee Exemption Code) 26-2-301
Life estate (Tennessee Exemption Code) 26-2-302
2-15 year lease (Tennessee Exemption Code) 26-2-303
Spouse or child of deceased owner may claim homestead exemption (Tennessee Exemption Code) 26-2-301
Property held as tenancy by the entirety may be exempt against debts owed by only one spouse (Tennessee Exemption Code) In re Arango, 136 B.R. 740, aff’d, 992 F. 2d 611 (6th Cir. 1993)

Now if anyone should learn how to take CRITICISM it should be you. You do not work in the law field and you do not live in NY (anymore and haven't lived in NY in years) so before you tell someone they are "wrong" maybe you should look up NY law so you know what the hell you are talking about and again "KNOWLEDGE IS POWER - use it as you see fit".

Ladynred - You should stick with web design forums as with this thread, you don't know what you are talking about.

 

[oiseeyuronhere]

Hi, it's me. Sorry to see that this question has made people upset with each other and I do appreciate any help I can get. I am still waiting for the Legal Aid Office to get back in touch with me. I wonder how long this will take?? The aprasial value of my fathers house is $30,000.00 he owes about $26,000
00 and I believe my name was only put, well I've never actually seen my name on the deed but the new tax bill comes in my fathers name and my name, This was done about 3 years ago I think. I have a 2000 chevy malibu that I bought for about 13,000.00 and owe about 8,000 on still and my name
is also on my fathers Harley davidson loan and title. I was a co signer on the bike loan for $15,500, and he owes about $4500 on that loan. Again my name was put on the bike title to avoid anything when my father should pass
away. My 1/2 brothers have both been in jail and prison and leach off people and haven't helped pay for any of these items or helped take care of my father. I have not told my father any of this problem that I am having because I don't want to upset him and have him thinking he will loose all he has worked so hard for. Will my father loose any of his property or personal possessions?? Advise from both of you is appreciated, it gives me alot to think about. Thank you christine

 

[dlbennett620]

Christine,

You should honestly consult an attorney to review your case and tell you what your options are. As the property (house, car, motorcycle, etc.) is in your fathers name and/or your name, an attorney would be able to explain to you what your options are and assist with the best course of action.

I am on the Board of the Capital District Paralegal Association in Albany, NY. We work with the New York State Bar Association and attorneys who handle pro bono work. Our paralegals assist attorneys on the various pro bono cases they are handling. I have some contacts who may be able to assist you in the search for an attorney to consult and/or take your case. The Capital District Womens Bar Assocation also promotes The Legal Project who handles a bankruptcy clinic at various times during the year.

I am not sure what part of New York you are located in. I am sure there is an organization or attorney in your area who handles some pro bono work. If you are interested, let me know and I will try to locate some information for you.

Good luck to you Christine!

Diane

 

[Ladynred]

as you do NOT live in NY (anymore and haven't lived in NY in years), you should do your homework

Since when does is make ANY difference WHERE I live NOW ??? I HAVE done my homework, and the information in your post tells me NOTHING that I didn't already know. I know EXACTLY what the NYS exemptions are and I do NOT have to LIVE THERE NOW to know it either ! NOTHING in my post had ANYTHING to do with TN, not a single word and I certainly was not basing my reply on TN law !!

Did you completely miss this part of my FIRST reply ?
NYS, like all the rest, have exemptions from judgments that would probably protect most if not all of the poster's share of the equity in the home !

Or how about this ?: The only way the TRUSTEE could sieze the property is if the exemption wouldn't cover the poster's share of the equity

Just because I didn't list the EXACT statutes doesn't mean I don't know what the law is.

This, of course does NOT apply to NYS since it refers to the FEDERAL EXEMPTIONS, which are NOT available in NY:

Equity in your home, called a homestead exemption. Under the Bankruptcy Code, you can exempt up to $17,425 of equity

You do not work in the law field and you do not live in NY (anymore and haven't lived in NY in years) so before you tell someone they are "wrong" maybe you should look up NY law so you know what the hell you are talking about

As I said, my current state of residence is IRRELEVANT ! I don't live in IL, TX, NJ, MD, VA, or any of the other 49 states NOW either, but I DO know where to find their statutes and I DO know how to READ them. I suppose you're going to tell our resident LAWYERS that they can't give advice here on any other state because they don't LIVE THERE ??? Your argument over residency is ridiculous.

There is NO requirement here to BE a lawyer or even work in the legal profession, none, nada, zilch, but that does NOT mean I am incapable of reading AND UNDERSTANDING Federal regulations, statutes, and case law. You, on the other hand, seem to think that because you're a para-legal -NOT A LAWYER EITHER - that you are somehow better than the rest of the NON-LAWYER contributors to this forum.

Bottom line, you WERE wrong, you admitted you KNOW NOTHING about bankrutpcy yet you proceed to give erroneous information. The fact is, MOST people, in ANY state, never lose anything in bankruptcy.

I DO know what I'm talking about. There ARE lawyers here, if my posts were completely wrong, THEY would step in an let me know about it, but I would not be screaming at them that they know nothing because they don't live in a particular state ! I've studied the Bankrutpcy Code for quite some time as well as the bankruptcy exemption statutes for almost every state in the US - something that YOU cannot say at all.

Get over yourself, your argument is baseless.

 

[dlbennett620]

MEEOOOOOOWWW !! A little defensive, aren't we ?? - now who is being defensive?

I never mentioned that someone would have to live in NY to know NY law. You are the one who brought the states into the conversation in the first place.

As you said "I may not live in NY NOW but I grew up there and still consider it my HOME state, so who's running her mouth now ??? I still have family there, my sister works for the State." - WHAT DOES YOUR FAMILY BACKGROUND HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING??? Like I or any other reader cares where the hell your sister works or where you grew up???

You are the one who sent the nasty message(s) indicating how WRONG I was -which was completely untrue. I never once mentioned in my first post to oiseeyuronhere that she would have to sell the property. She never mentioned the equity in the home, if she had, my information to her would have been different. If you had read my first post you would have noticed I said "I am not very familiar with the bankruptcy law . . ." - I never said I was an expert. My only purpose in sending the post to begin with was to tell her the real estate law - which I do know. If I had known I would receive a rude and obnoxious post from someone who feels it is their mission in the world to tell others how wrong they are, I wouldn't have sent the message.

As she mentioned in her second post (if you had read that instead of throwing insults to me), you would have realized she does not know if she is even on the Deed to the property as she has not seen anything with her name on it except a tax bill - which does not necessarily mean she is an owner of the property. None of your lovely advice to her is going to do her any good regarding ownership of the house and the ramifications of a bankruptcy, if the Deed was never conveyed to her - DUH DUH DUH!

Not one of your posts, nasty comments or quotes are going to help oiseeyuronhere with her biggest issue. If you had read her question before you started running your mouth and insulting me, you would have realized that not only did she need to know her options regarding the debts, but she also needs a pro bono attorney to handle the bankruptcy for her as she can barely afford the filing fee.

If you had been truly interested in helping her, you would have sent her the information she needed without throwing insults and rude comments to me in your messages. Not once in my original post did I insult anyone. Unlike you, who instantly started insulting me and telling me how wrong I was - which was completely untrue. You have no idea the extent of my education and what laws I may or may not know. In the same respect, I also have no idea what you may know or not know. The difference between us is that I didn't feel it was necessary to insult you. That is, until you started insulting me.

"KNOWLEDGE IS POWER - use it as you see fit". - maybe you should follow your own advice and instead of insulting people, you would give them what they actually asked for in the first place - some knowledgable advice.

I have no idea who you are nor do I care. Your total disrespect and animosity towards others is disheartening. I feel sorry for you, someone or something must have truly hurt you for you to be so obnoxious and rude to people who you don't know and have never met.

 

[Ladynred]

You think being told that you're wrong is an INSULT ?? Good grief

My reference to my family was merely to illustrate that I DO still have ties to NY, many of them. I spent half my life there, its not likely that I'll ever be disassociated from NY.

None of your lovely advice to her is going to do her any good regarding ownership of the house and the ramifications of a bankruptcy, if the Deed was never conveyed to her - DUH DUH DUH!

Your reply as to the REAL ESTATE issues was adequate, and since I'm not a real estate person, I had no intention of opening my mouth about that when I hadn't the correct information to give.

Look, people come to these forums, especially this one, in a PANIC most of the time. Its simply NOT helpful to say things like ' you may not be able to file bankrupty if your name's on the deed' because it IS erroneous. Owning property does NOT preclude you from filing for bankruptcy. You may not wind up in a CH 7 because of excess equity or arrearages, so you wind up in a Ch 13 instead but you are NOT PRECLUDED from bankruptcy. Your comment implied that the OP COULD be barred from filing if his/her name was on the deed.

but she also needs a pro bono attorney to handle the bankruptcy for her as she can barely afford the filing fee.

The filing fee does NOT have to be paid all at once. You can request to pay the filing fee in installments. The $54 administrative fee must be paid in full when you file your petition. The remainder can be made in up to 4 installments over 120 days -- that's 4 months. So for less than $40/month the filing fee just MIGHT be manageable. She DOES need a lawyer, on that I will not disagree and if there is one around that will do her case pro bono, great. The problem with Legal Aid is that they're SO backlogged with so many other types of cases, the OP may not be able to get help in time.

I feel sorry for you,

Save your pity for someone who needs it.