I was fired and just received letter my former employer blocked my unemployment check

[baylor3217]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Texas

I didn't know this was possible. I received a phone call from the state a couple of weeks back with the state saying they were blocking my unemployment check due to "gross negligence".

I received a letter today stating that it was officially blocked and i could appeal via phone, apparently with my employer on the phone at the same time.

Do I have any recourse regarding the unemployment check?

Here's a quick re-cap of what originally happened in this thread: https://forum.freeadvice.com/hiring-firing-wrongful-termination-5/i-fear-i-am-about-wrongfully-terminated-can-you-help-613439.html

Since then, my boss never met with while i was on the so called performance improvement plan. I had my annual review in July and received a "Meets Expectations" and a raise.

All seemed good with the world. The new people who were harassing me, after 11 years of employment with this company and ZERO issues with management or in my review, were finally leaving me alone.

Then in about October, I was informed they wanted to install a new computer system at my pharmacy and, since I'm a model employee and all, they wanted me to head up the effort for the company. We went through the painstaking process of upgrading the system with tons of OT, etc from late October to November and then we all went on vacation for Thanksgiving.

When I arrived back in the office on Monday 11/30, HR arrived shortly thereafter and pulled me aside and said they were firing me. I asked why, and they trumped up some charges of things I had supposedly done that warranted termination the day before i left for Thanksgiving.

I'm not sure how much was premeditated on their part, but for all intents and purposes, it appears they purposely kept me around to upgrade their computer system and then fired me.

I filed for unemployment and have been out of work for a few weeks and found out today that the unemployment was denied.

IN SUMMARY
1) do i have any recourse regarding the unemployment being denied?

2) Should I appeal?

3) Do I potentially have a basis for a "wrongful termination" lawsuit? I'm a woman. I've not had any of these issues in over the last decade until a new female boss joined the company back in March and ever since then I've been dealing with this bi-polar situation where one day I'm on a performance plan, the next day I get zero feedback on if I'm doing better, months later I get my annual review and a meets expectation AND a raise, months after that I get asked to spearhead a flagship installation of a new computer system, which we successfully accomplish and weeks after that, I'm fired.

Losing this job will probably cost me $10,000-$15,000 in annual salary and a work schedule that was convenient.

Thank you for any perspective and direction!

 

[cbg]

Your ONLY recourse is to appeal.

You are not guaranteed to prevail if you do, but you are absolutely certain not to prevail if you don't. Sounds like a no-brainer to me.

NO. YOU DO NOT HAVE A CLAIM FOR WRONGFUL TERMINATION. As you were told multiple times in your other thread, your employer can legally fire you for any reason that is not SPECIFICALLY prohibited by law. You can legally be fired because you wore green socks to work, even if you were never told you had to. You can legally be fired because you didn't wear green socks to work, even if you were never told to do so. You can legally be fired because you had a banana on your desk (yes, that is really a question I was really asked on another forum some years ago). You can walk on water with notarized letters from President Obama, Queen Elizabeth and the Pope all guaranteeing that you were the best employer who ever walked the earth, and your employer could fire you the next day because he happened to feel like it and for no reason other than that he wanted to say "You're fired" to someone, AND YOU STILL WOULD NOT HAVE A WRONGFUL TERMINATION CLAIM.

Since your last thread indicates that you like things to be crystal clear, I'm making it as clear to you as I possibly can.

YOU WERE NOT WRONGFULLY TERMINATED. You may have been unfairly terminated, but unfair and illegal are not the same thing. The law does not give two hoots if it is fair - only if it is legal. And it is.

 

[baylor3217]

Your ONLY recourse is to appeal.

You are not guaranteed to prevail if you do, but you are absolutely certain not to prevail if you don't. Sounds like a no-brainer to me.

NO. YOU DO NOT HAVE A CLAIM FOR WRONGFUL TERMINATION. As you were told multiple times in your other thread, your employer can legally fire you for any reason that is not SPECIFICALLY prohibited by law. You can legally be fired because you wore green socks to work, even if you were never told you had to. You can legally be fired because you didn't wear green socks to work, even if you were never told to do so. You can legally be fired because you had a banana on your desk (yes, that is really a question I was really asked on another forum some years ago). You can walk on water with notarized letters from President Obama, Queen Elizabeth and the Pope all guaranteeing that you were the best employer who ever walked the earth, and your employer could fire you the next day because he happened to feel like it and for no reason other than that he wanted to say "You're fired" to someone, AND YOU STILL WOULD NOT HAVE A WRONGFUL TERMINATION CLAIM.

Since your last thread indicates that you like things to be crystal clear, I'm making it as clear to you as I possibly can.

YOU WERE NOT WRONGFULLY TERMINATED. You may have been unfairly terminated, but unfair and illegal are not the same thing. The law does not give two hoots if it is fair - only if it is legal. And it is.

LOL. Awesome. Thank you for the clarity.

Is there anything special I can do to prepare my defense regarding the appeal to help me win?

And, uh let me be clear, a note from obama wouldn't carry much water around these parts.

 

[Chyvan]

Is there anything special I can do to prepare my defense regarding the appeal to help me win?

File your appeal request with "the determination dated mm/dd/yy is wrong. I want an appeal hearing scheduled." You'll then either get a hearing packet if it's by phone, or instructions for viewing the hearing packet at the hearing location if it's an in-person hearing. If you have the option of getting an in-person hearing or orchestrating getting one, do it. It greatly increases the chances that your employer won't show.

At that point, is when you try to decide what you need to do at your hearing. It will contain all the information that your employer wrote about you, the deputy notes from any phone interview, and what you had to say about the situation. You might find that you rather than your employer was your own worst enemy. To get really good help, you need to get into the specifics. "Gross misconduct" is just too generic. What final incident did the letter actually accuse you of doing?

Since you were fired, you can get some ideas on how certain issues are addressed by reading http://www.twc.state.tx.us/news/efte/ui_law_qualification_issues.html and http://www.twc.state.tx.us/unemployment-benefits-appeals-policy-precedent-manual#precedentDecisions read the "Misconduct" section.

 

[commentator]

For purposes of simplification, a few things to know and remember. First of all, the request for appeal is NOT the place to state your case or try to argue about things. You simply request an appeal in a timely manner. In person is, as it was pointed out, better, because though it may take longer, it increases the amount of trouble that your employer must go to to appear and try to fight your unemployment approval. Just say "I request an appeal" within the timely guidelines to do so, as instructed, you do not have to give reasons.

While you are waiting for the hearing, keep making your weekly certifications for benefits, you know, after each week passes, you certify for it, answering the questions, etc. If your claim is approved in the appeal, you will be back paid but only for weeks that you have certified for.

Your employer, if they fire you, has the burden of proof that they had a valid misconduct work related reason to fire you. In other words, it was something you were deliberately doing wrong, you knew it was wrong, you were given warnings, told that you had to step up or change your behavior, you were given clear information about what had to change for you to keep your job, and you deliberately, even though you knew your job was in jeopardy, chose not to change your performance or behavior.

And to be considered an effective misconduct reason this behavior that got you fired should not be a whole hodgepodge of "well, she was late on 12/12, and she didn't sign in correctly on 1/15, and she was insubordinate on 2/5 and her work was not up to productivity on 3/21."

What they will be most interested in was "what was the final issue that you were told was the reason you were being terminated for?"

And that will be the issue they will want to hear about, whether you had received warnings about this issue, or knew that you were in danger of termination regarding this particular issue.

And incidentally, be sure to work into your part of the hearing that you ALWAYS did the job to the best of your abilities. Even if you failed to do what they asked, failed to produce xxx amount of work in xx amount of time, if you showed up and tried your hardest to do what was being asked of you, then this lack of productivity is not misconduct. You tried, but you failed. That's not misconduct. Giving up and sleeping under your desk, that's misconduct and poor performance. Breaking down the system so you don't have to work on it today, that's poor performance misconduct. But simply not pleasing the supervisor, though you were trying your hardest is not misconduct.

Read the posts that have been put up on these forums many times before about unemployment appeals hearings. They follow a fairly standard formula and should be something that a person can successfully represent themselves at. Just be polite, professional, listen carefully, and state your case concisely. Do not throw in excuses, whines, complaints about your "wrongful termination" or rotten treatment by management, just tell your story briefly. Do not quote law to or argue with the hearing officer, listen very carefully to what they tell you to do and the questions they ask you. Do not engage with your former employer, even if they lie their heads off. Just speak your truth. The hearing officer will determine which of the two parties is "most believable" in this situation.

The employer does not get the final say on whether you are approved to draw or not. They just get to tell their reasons why they terminated you and try to show they had a valid misconduct reason to do so. You get to appeal, telling how you did not want to lose your job, you did your best on your job, and that they did NOT have a valid reason to terminate you. Good luck.

 

[commentator]

By the way, "gross misconduct" for unemployment purposes is loosely defined as something so totally egregious that any reasonable person should have known it was the wrong thing to do, even if they had not had prior warnings from the employer about the behavior. In other words, if you slapped the dickens out of the supervisor before you left for the holiday, that was gross misconduct. If you peed in your trashcan, that was gross misconduct. If you set the building on fire, that's gross misconduct. (All of these things I have seen people accused of doing and fired for!)

There's not much you can do to help yourself in a hearing if something like this actually happened. But if it was something like not turning off the computer when you went to lunch....that's a discussing thing. If you knew what the rule was, and deliberately violated it, that's a little different from a careless mistake or forgetting to do something. If they say you did something remarkably wrong and you just flatly didn't, or someone else did it, you just reasonably deny that it happened or tell what you believe to have happened. They may find you more believable.

 

[baylor3217]

Thank you for all the GREAT info everyone! Very helpful and much appreciated.

A wrinkle for my situation. I've now found gainful employment, thank God! Would that change anything about my appeal and the weeks I was out of work but that my company kept me from getting unemployment for? I'm willing to invest the time in the appeal to try to offset my lack of revenue during that time i was unemployed.

 

[LdiJ]

Thank you for all the GREAT info everyone! Very helpful and much appreciated.

A wrinkle for my situation. I've now found gainful employment, thank God! Would that change anything about my appeal and the weeks I was out of work but that my company kept me from getting unemployment for? I'm willing to invest the time in the appeal to try to offset my lack of revenue during that time i was unemployed.

Yes, you can and should still appeal. It does not change anything for the weeks that you could/should have received unemployment compensation.

 

[baylor3217]

I'd also like to add that my former employer has been telling the customers that i was fired. Is that something theyre allowed to do? I was told no, but not by someone i trust.

 

[LdiJ]

I'd also like to add that my former employer has been telling the customers that i was fired. Is that something theyre allowed to do? I was told no, but not by someone i trust.

There is nothing prohibiting them from telling the truth.

 

[commentator]

Yes, as I said, if you filed the claim and certified as instructed for the weeks you were unemployed, there is nothing about finding another job that will prohibit you from receiving back pay on those weeks you would've received unemployment from if you are approved in the hearing. For heaven's sake, also be careful not to cheat yourself out of any of those weeks. Remember that you qualify to certify for the week of unemployment up you have actually worked that first week. In other words, just because you have been told you start next Monday doesn't mean you do not certify next Monday for last week, see what I mean? You were unemployed and actively seeking other work last week. When you look back on Monday and you have worked all the previous week, just stop doing the weekly certifications. That's all the notification you need to give the system about your finding a new job. They'll not certify you and you will not receive a check, and they don't care where you went to work or why you stopped certifying at this point.

But we hope you have already filed the request for an appeal. Now make sure, even if you have to take leave from your new job, that you SHOW UP for the hearing, either in person or by telephone, and tell your side of the situation. If you are approved, you'll be back paid for the weeks you filed for benefits that you should have received unemployment benefits for. You don't have to mention that you've now gone to work somewhere else. That's not relevant to the reason why your employer fired you.

Also, do not worry about what your former employer is supposedly telling customers. That actually sounds bad for them. Once you no longer work somewhere, divorce yourself from that workplace and the gossip and politics of that workplace. But saying that they fired you is true. It's not as big a deal as you would think. Especially if you are approved for unemployment benefits. Being fired is not nearly the horrible horrible thing that employers would like to threaten people with the very thought of. In fact, as other employers know, it happens all the time. And it is usually wiser to let them fire you without good cause instead of quitting, which sounds like you tucked tail and ran away instead of hanging in there and trying to do your best.

 

[cbg]

I'd also like to add that my former employer has been telling the customers that i was fired. Is that something theyre allowed to do? I was told no, but not by someone i trust.

Since you WERE fired, it's perfectly legal for them to say so.

 

[baylor3217]

For purposes of simplification, a few things to know and remember. First of all, the request for appeal is NOT the place to state your case or try to argue about things. You simply request an appeal in a timely manner. In person is, as it was pointed out, better, because though it may take longer, it increases the amount of trouble that your employer must go to to appear and try to fight your unemployment approval. Just say "I request an appeal" within the timely guidelines to do so, as instructed, you do not have to give reasons.

I'm tryign to submit my request for appeal online and it appears they are going to force me to do the first appeal over the phone. Is there a way to make it face to face? I'm in Texas

 

[Chyvan]

I'm tryign to submit my request for appeal online and it appears they are going to force me to do the first appeal over the phone. Is there a way to make it face to face? I'm in Texas

Do you happen to speak Spanish or some other foreign language or are hard of hearing? I find that asking for an interpreter or needing to see "lips move and read facial expressions" triggers an in-person to get scheduled.

 

[commentator]

You can strongly request, and they'll threaten that it will take a LOT longer, but really, you can do it over the phone. It's just easier on the employer, and that's a big plus for them, but you can still prevail. The upside is that you can really read from your notes when it's a telephone hearing. Let us work with you when you get it scheduled, and keep making the weekly certifications for benefits, and if they wont' let you do the in person..... or are going to really be asses about it, which sometimes they are, you can prevail in a telephone hearing.You just have to be well organized and have your stuff together, and you can do okay with it if you AREN'T a fluent Spanish speaker who needs a hearing in Spanish..... Texas is a very big state, which means they have a lot of hearings, and they are a very employer friendly state, but thank God they do still have to follow federal guidelines regarding giving you a chance to speak in person. But really, it's not worth it to wait, if you want to get this thing settled.