International Wire Fraud via online banking account

[Zigner]

0
As I noted in my initial lengthy analysis and post above I was a commercial bank operations office in a large international bank in Miami. You can take it from me as Gospel that commercial banks in the United States do NOT "lose" $50,000. Ever.
We both agree that there was a $50,000 transfer from the fathers account to the OP's account; right? The bank did NOT do that unless one of the joint account holders said to do it. And I seriously doubt the father was the one who moved HIS money to the OPs account; why?
Because it is not yet Christmas.

If the OP was hacked and, by coincidence, was logged on at the moment the hackers did the transfers, then I can see it happening this way. However, as was pointed out...why go to the extra step of transferring it from dad's account to the OP's first and then doing the transfer?

 

[quincy]

The freezing of the accounts is about the only thing that makes complete sense.

 

[illinoswirefraud]

Please allow me to respond immediately after posting your opening statements of the alleged problem; you first said: "3 weeks ago when logged into my online banking site, within seconds my screen showed my account balance increased from $50 to $50,000, then back to $50." Right?
Response: Unless I suddenly lost my ability to read plain English, all you had in your account was $50 when this problem started; right? Then suddenly you had $50,050; right? And then a few seconds later your account balance went from $50,050 back down to $50; right? So then where is the beef? Why do you think you should get to keep the mysterious $50,000?

Here is your next statement: "I immediately logged out of the site and called my bank's fraud line to alert them that something had happened on my account. I was told by the bank that my account would immediately be frozen." Nothing to see here. When you reported this apparent money laundering scheme your bank did exactly what your bank should have done: Froze you account.

Finally, having operated the money desk at a large international bank in Miami and having investigated scores of similar stories of money laundering, check kiting and many other tricks people use to steal money I noticed a glaring "tell" a few statements later in your recitation of the facts: Here is the tell: "I had a joint checking account at this bank with my elderly father and his bank statement notes a "forced check pc transfer" for $50,000 debiting his account." I do not want to jump to any early conclusion here but this is the reason BOTH accounts have been frozen.
P.S. Removing your name from your father's account was not helpful; in fact it makes you loot even more guilty--in the bank's eyes.

 

[illinoswirefraud]

I interpreted the case differently than the last two posters. I interpreted it as the bank has somehow lost $50,000 in whatever happened to cause that fleeting increase in her bank account and they are holding her responsible for it. Since her name was on her father's account, they took the money back from her father's account. I may have it wrong, but it still reads that way to me.

Correct. When I was logged into my screen to pay my bills, no movement was seen on my screen until I saw 50K as balance, then 50K wire transfer. This happened within seconds. I did not see a cursor moving on my screen making transactions. I did not see a transfer from my dads account and movement on my screen selecting a wire transfer. FBI is now helping.

 

[illinoswirefraud]

Please allow me to respond immediately after posting your opening statements of the alleged problem; you first said: "3 weeks ago when logged into my online banking site, within seconds my screen showed my account balance increased from $50 to $50,000, then back to $50." Right?
Response: Unless I suddenly lost my ability to read plain English, all you had in your account was $50 when this problem started; right? Then suddenly you had $50,050; right? And then a few seconds later your account balance went from $50,050 back down to $50; right? So then where is the beef? Why do you think you should get to keep the mysterious $50,000?

Here is your next statement: "I immediately logged out of the site and called my bank's fraud line to alert them that something had happened on my account. I was told by the bank that my account would immediately be frozen." Nothing to see here. When you reported this apparent money laundering scheme your bank did exactly what your bank should have done: Froze you account.

Finally, having operated the money desk at a large international bank in Miami and having investigated scores of similar stories of money laundering, check kiting and many other tricks people use to steal money I noticed a glaring "tell" a few statements later in your recitation of the facts: Here is the tell: "I had a joint checking account at this bank with my elderly father and his bank statement notes a "forced check pc transfer" for $50,000 debiting his account." I do not want to jump to any early conclusion here but this is the reason BOTH accounts have been frozen.
P.S. Removing your name from your father's account was not helpful; in fact it makes you loot even more guilty--in the bank's eyes.

I am not trying to recover the money for myself, I am trying to recover for my father. No problem on my part with the bank freezing our accounts in my eyes. We did this in case the hacker still has my account number and can still get in somehow. He and I have both filed police reports testifying what we are reporting. FBI now investigating. Most guilty people I dont think do this.

 

[illinoswirefraud]

When I am banking with my online account it refreshes automatically each time I do something. So that part doesn't seem off to me. I understand what you think happened, but it still doesn't read that way to me. You may be right.

I dont recall seeing a screen refresh. I have not turned my pc back on since the incident occurred in case the FBI wants to look at it. I have not attempted to also sign back into my online account since the incident.

 

[illinoswirefraud]

Do you know anyone in China or do you know anyone who knows anyone in China?

Bank accounts are often frozen automatically when the bank notices unusual wire transfers to other countries or when the account holder informs the bank of unusual activity on their account.

Because you noticed a brief transfer of money into and then out of your account, it sounds as if $50,000 from your father’s account (your joint account) was transferred to your personal account before being transferred out of the account to a bank in China.

I think you need an attorney to determine what exactly is going on - but, with illegal wire transfers, you are not apt to see the $50,000 again.

I have friends whose accounts were frozen when they transferred money from their U.S. account to an account held by their family members overseas. It was a regular-occurring monthly wire transfer. Their account was frozen during a federal investigation into the transfers. It took close to two months before my friends were able to access the funds in their account again.

No, I do not know anyone in China and have never performed a wire transfer at all. I didnt even know I could do this.thank you

 

[illinoswirefraud]

Are you referring to the Microsoft scam from last year? That did not involve several transfers.

No, I was not on the phone with anyone

 

[illinoswirefraud]

I am afraid that the transfers sound suspiciously like the act of the account holder and not an unrelated hacker. A hacker would not take the extra step of moving funds from the joint account to the personal account.

The bank is the one that told me the hacker moved the funds immediately when I was logged in from my dad's to my account. He and I have both been banking with this bank (bought out throughout the years),have had our account numbers for almost 60 years. We have never transferred money between out accounts as we have not needed to do this.
On the bank statements, two days after the wire transfer on my account supposedly occurred, the 50K shows a debit date 2 days later as a forced pc check transfer. So I think the bank is not being honest with me. I do think the bank transferred the money between his an my account-not the hacker. I am hopeful the FBI will be able to clarify this.
This actually makes me angrier as my hacked account has now become his problem.

 

[illinoswirefraud]

I interpreted the case differently than the last two posters. I interpreted it as the bank has somehow lost $50,000 in whatever happened to cause that fleeting increase in her bank account and they are holding her responsible for it. Since her name was on her father's account, they took the money back from her father's account. I may have it wrong, but it still reads that way to me.

I think you are correct. And I understand why the bank may have done this.

 

[quincy]

FBI investigations can take a long time. If your bank accounts were actually hacked by an outside player, the odds of you recovering the $50,000 are slim.

There would have to be an error shown on the part of the bank in securing the accounts rather than a suspected failure on your part to secure your passwords and computer for the bank to be held liable.

I hope you are working with the bank to set up new accounts to protect what remains in the accounts.

 

[illinoswirefraud]

I have helped dad with this already as we needed an account to write checks from and receive his social security and pension into. Thank you. My father has 5 other accounts at this bank with sizeable balances. There are set up as single accounts with PODs or trusts to my other sisters and I. Wondering if we should move this money to another bank? He has multiple other accounts at other banks too with sizeable deposits. It is getting increasingly difficult however to get dad out for anything due to his age, COVID, declining physical health-but we will do if we should to protect his money further.
We and I are honest people with absolutely no police/criminal past. Not even a traffic ticket. I am a little offended that some think I am trying to pull a scam. I am not tech savy but wondering even if the hacker was not an inside job. I am hopeful the FBI can figure this out.
I also near retirement and am financially in very good shape. I just dont have money at this particular bank. No way I would try to steal his money or scam my father.
Should I hire a lawyer or let things play out? That is really my question. If I hire an attorney, how long do I wait. How do I find the right lawyer?

 

[quincy]

I have helped dad with this already as we needed an account to write checks from and receive his social security and pension into. Thank you. My father has 5 other accounts at this bank with sizeable balances. There are set up as single accounts with PODs or trusts to my other sisters and I. Wondering if we should move this money to another bank? He has multiple other accounts at other banks too with sizeable deposits. It is getting increasingly difficult however to get dad out for anything due to his age, COVID, declining physical health-but we will do if we should to protect his money further.
We and I are honest people with absolutely no police/criminal past. Not even a traffic ticket. I am a little offended that some think I am trying to pull a scam. I am not tech savy but wondering even if the hacker was not an inside job. I am hopeful the FBI can figure this out.
I also near retirement and am financially in very good shape. I just dont have money at this particular bank. No way I would try to steal his money or scam my father.
Should I hire a lawyer or let things play out? That is really my question. If I hire an attorney, how long do I wait. How do I find the right lawyer?

You could hire an attorney (banking and finance) to go over the bank’s actions to date. Because such a large amount of money is involved, that might be a smart idea.

Here is a link to the Illinois Bar “attorney finder:”
https://www.isba.org/public/illinoislawyerfinder

I know from my friends’ experience that these wire transfer investigations can take a long time. They, too, felt they were under a cloud of suspicion even though they had done nothing wrong. It was an uncomfortable position for them to be in, as I am sure it is for you.

Transferring your father’s accounts to another bank is always an option - although you won’t be able to do anything with the accounts that are currently frozen. If you have not had any problems with your current bank prior to this incident, however, you could wait to see what happens, as long as you have made sure the other accounts are secure.