Is there a way to tell an employee they smell and need to work on their hygiene?

[Mark_A]

I am friendly with my employees, but I am not their friend.

Sorry, didn't mean to suggest that you were their friend.

 

[stealth2]

I am friendly with my employees, but I am not their friend.

I was thinking that you likely have a different relationship than "friends". Even when I was on good terms with direct reports (we'd get together socially, help one another out if needed, etc.), we were all well aware that we weren't friends. I would consider such a "joke" between any of us (or with my own supervisor/manager) to be over the line. I'd likely start the conversation along the lines of, "Hey (Employee), I've noticed over the past weeks that there seems to be a problem with hygiene. I know it's awkward (for me, too...), but this needs to be resolved. Is there anything I can do to help?"

 

[stealth2]

I had the same reaction, BHA.

 

[Mark_A]

I was thinking that you likely have a different relationship than "friends". Even when I was on good terms with direct reports (we'd get together socially, help one another out if needed, etc.), we were all well aware that we weren't friends. I would consider such a "joke" between any of us (or with my own supervisor/manager) to be over the line. I'd likely start the conversation along the lines of, "Hey (Employee), I've noticed over the past weeks that there seems to be a problem with hygiene. I know it's awkward (for me, too...), but this needs to be resolved. Is there anything I can do to help?"

If I were the employee, I would immediately feel threatened and suspect that I was about to get fired.

 

[quincy]

If I were the employee, I would immediately feel threatened and suspect that I was about to get fired.

Anytime a supervisor asks to speak to an employee in private, the employee will experience some anxiety. That’s a normal reaction.

Re-read cbg’s post #19 on page two to see a good way to approach the employee (eg., “… this is the problem, please fix it …”), using words that are most comfortable to mart33n. Then let the employee talk, apologize, explain, leave.

People who smell badly often don’t realize they smell.

 

[Mark_A]

Anytime a supervisor asks to speak to an employee in private, the employee will experience some anxiety. That’s a normal reaction.

Re-read cbg’s post #19 on page two to see a good way to approach the employee (eg., “… this is the problem, please fix it …”), using words that are most comfortable to mart33n. Then let the employee talk, apologize, explain, leave.

People who smell badly often don’t realize they smell.

As already mentioned, I believe that the business owner and employee are the only two office workers, and the others are in the field (at least most of the time). It might not be necessary to ask if they can talk privately.

Like I said, if a manager immediately started talking about the employee needing to fix the problem, the employee is likely to feel threatened and suspect they may get fired. That might be the intent, but if the intent is to keep the employee, I would first try and ask about the problem without demanding that the problem be fixed. If the employee wasn't getting the message, or not wanting to fix the problem, then the next step would be to tell them they need to fix the problem. Just my opinion, and every situation and person (manager and employee) is different.

At first, I thought the manager and employee were both women, but now I see some are saying the manager is male, and that might be why the manager is afraid of being accused of harassment. In that case, I might try and get a female friend (wife or girlfriend) to come in the office when I was gone, and see if she can casually talk to the employee and maybe find out what is going on. If I knew any of the friends of the employee, I might ask them if they know what is going on. I am assuming that the business owner would like to keep this employee, and if the employee feels threatened, she might start looking for another job even if she fixes the problem.

One of symptoms of COVID-19 for some people is loss of smell and taste, so that could be the problem. This can occur even if there are no other symptoms. This symptom can continue even after the person tests negative, but will usually improve over time, but maybe not 100% in all people.

 

[quincy]

As already mentioned, I believe that the business owner and employee are the only two office workers, and the others are in the field (at least most of the time). It might not be necessary to ask if they can talk privately.

Like I said, if a manager immediately started talking about the employee needing to fix the problem, the employee is likely to feel threatened and suspect they may get fired. That might be the intent, but if the intent is to keep the employee, I would first try and ask about the problem without demanding that the problem be fixed. If the employee wasn't getting the message, or not wanting to fix the problem, then the next step would be to tell them they need to fix the problem. Just my opinion, and every situation and person (manager and employee) is different.

At first, I thought the manager and employee were both women, but now I see some are saying the manager is male, and that might be why the manager is afraid of being accused of harassment. In that case, I might try and get a female friend (wife or girlfriend) to come in the office when I was gone, and see if she can casually talk to the employee and maybe find out what is going on. If I knew any of the friends of the employee, I might ask them if they know what is going on. I am assuming that the business owner would like to keep this employee, and if the employee feels threatened, she might start looking for another job even if she fixes the problem.

One of symptoms of COVID-19 for some people is loss of smell and taste, so that could be the problem. This can occur even if there are no other symptoms. This symptom can continue even after the person tests negative, but will usually improve over time, but maybe not 100% in all people.

There are several reasons why someone might have an odor problem. mart33n probably will find out what the problem is with his employee soon enough. That’s not our problem.

 

[stealth2]

I would first try and ask about the problem without demanding that the problem be fixed.

I thought your primary tactic would be to make a joke of it...

 

[cbg]

That might be the intent, but if the intent is to keep the employee, I would first try and ask about the problem without demanding that the problem be fixed.

And that's why you're not in HR.

 

[Mark_A]

And that's why you're not in HR.

I have been a manager in several large corporations, including one of the 5 largest ones at the time. I have had to deal with lots of employee issues, Sometimes I needed to consult with HR and they explained company policy regarding firing employees, etc, but the HR people didn't have to talk to the employee, I had to to do that. Sometimes I had to fire employees, and sometimes I had to put them on an improvement plan to give them a chance to fix their problem to avoid being fired. Although I did work with a few very good HR people, most of them were useless. Maybe at some companies the HR people talk to employees about their problems, but at most companies the manager has to do that.

 

[Mark_A]

I thought your primary tactic would be to make a joke of it...

You are twisting what I said. My suggestion was to casually ask the employee if there is some reason why they are not taking as many showers these days, in "sort of" a joking or non-confrontational manner. I didn't mean that the manager should make a joke that would ridicule the employee.

Others on this forum have criticized my suggestion, and said the manager should start out by telling the employee (quoting quincy) "“… this is the problem, please fix it …”). That sounds too confrontational to me, especially if the employee does have a medical issue or some other good reason to explain the problem.

As I suggested it is possible that she has lost her sense of smell for some medical reason, and it is even possible that she takes showers but doesn't wash her clothes frequently enough because she can't smell an odor from them. There are lots of possibilities. Maybe she has joined Greenpeace and decided that bathing frequently is a waste of energy and leads to greenhouse gases and global warming. I would at least try and find out the reason before threatening her in any way.

 

[cbg]

And doing it your way can create a discrimination issue where none would otherwise exist.

 

[Mark_A]

And doing it your way can create a discrimination issue where none would otherwise exist.

Is that sex (gender) discrimination? I don't understand how that would be the case here.

If it did turn out to be a medical problem (such as loss of smell due to some sudden illness like COVID-19, or temporarily not being able to bathe due to some medical procedure or condition), then that could be discrimination because an employer cannot discriminate against an employee because of a medical condition they have. So that is why I would mention the problem first in a non-threatening way and give them a chance to respond, before demanding that they fix it.

 

[cbg]

No. Disability or religious. Gender/Sex doesn't enter into it.

The last thing you want to do is suggest possible reasons. That's for the employee to do. I understand what you're getting at but truly, that can cause more problems that it's worth. The correct way to handle it, 99% of the time, is to keep the focus on the problem in the workplace and let the employee raise the reasons for it.

 

[Mark_A]

No. Disability or religious. Gender/Sex doesn't enter into it.

The last thing you want to do is suggest possible reasons. That's for the employee to do. I understand what you're getting at but truly, that can cause more problems that it's worth. The correct way to handle it, 99% of the time, is to keep the focus on the problem in the workplace and let the employee raise the reasons for it.

If you read my previous posts carefully about what the manager should say, at no time did I ever suggest that the manager ask the employee if they had any of the specific conditions that I mentioned in this forum (like COVID-19). I said the manger should ask the employee if there is some reason why they weren't taking a shower on a regular basis. That's all I suggested the manager say to the employee. What I speculated on this forum as to the possible reasons, is not what I recommended that the manager say to the employee.