Is this option a good one?

[Theresalee]

What is the name of your state? California
Thanks to rmet4 I received my new date for my first divorce now dated correctly!! Not only that but I did it all over the phone nd computer to a court that is hundreds of miles away!!! Thank you!! Now that my 21 year marriage is legal, my husband and I would like to do this with out a fight but I don't know if he is being honest or up front since I truly believe he wanted to leave the marriage the way it was "Illegal" so I was left with nothing...
Let me tell you what he wants.. We have about 50 thousand in debt. which he says the judge will more then likely make me pay half of. So he said he will take on all debt if I leave his 60 thousand in retirement alone. Also we made a list of who gets what and halfed everything.The only other thing we own is truck which he says he will sale and half the money to buy two cars one for him and one for me. He thinks our 17 year old wants to live with him but she told me she wants to stay with me, but we have decided to leave it up to her. She will be 18 in Feb and she is our youngest child. I told him I wanted an attorney to look it all over first and he said we could have the same one? Not sure if this is a good idea or not? When I told him I wanted my own he threaten me with a big fight, and not getting a damn thing.. I am listed on most of the bills but he is the main supporter with his income and they come in his name. I am listed on 3 of the bills as in they come in my name. I am going to try and change that since I have no income at all. Since this conversation he said he wanted to go to counseling and I agreed. But I'm seeing some sneeky weird stuff like he is protecting himself knowing or thinking the divorce may happen anyway, Also out of the blue he said he is due a big raise and he wants to put 1000.00 a month into his retirement? I truley believe he is talking to friends that may have been through this to get help on how to not end up helping me out. I have every intention of working as soon as I'm cleared from my DR but my last MRI doesn't look to good with two more disks messed up. Not to many employers will hire someone with injuries. He makes over 100 grand a year and with this raise he could get 150 a year? Should I get my own attorney anyway assuming someone will take me with no income?
One thing I learned through all of this is to teach my girls to always have your own income!!!!! Never fall for the line "Stay home and care for the kids they need you" I made this mistake but then I got hurt!!!!
Any advice?

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state? California
Thanks to rmet4 I received my new date for my first divorce now dated correctly!! Not only that but I did it all over the phone nd computer to a court that is hundreds of miles away!!! Thank you!! Now that my 21 year marriage is legal, my husband and I would like to do this with out a fight but I don't know if he is being honest or up front since I truly believe he wanted to leave the marriage the way it was "Illegal" so I was left with nothing...
Let me tell you what he wants.. We have about 50 thousand in debt. which he says the judge will more then likely make me pay half of. So he said he will take on all debt if I leave his 60 thousand in retirement alone. Also we made a list of who gets what and halfed everything.The only other thing we own is truck which he says he will sale and half the money to buy two cars one for him and one for me. He thinks our 17 year old wants to live with him but she told me she wants to stay with me, but we have decided to leave it up to her. She will be 18 in Feb and she is our youngest child. I told him I wanted an attorney to look it all over first and he said we could have the same one? Not sure if this is a good idea or not? When I told him I wanted my own he threaten me with a big fight, and not getting a damn thing.. I am listed on most of the bills but he is the main supporter with his income and they come in his name. I am listed on 3 of the bills as in they come in my name. I am going to try and change that since I have no income at all. Since this conversation he said he wanted to go to counseling and I agreed. But I'm seeing some sneeky weird stuff like he is protecting himself knowing or thinking the divorce may happen anyway, Also out of the blue he said he is due a big raise and he wants to put 1000.00 a month into his retirement? I truley believe he is talking to friends that may have been through this to get help on how to not end up helping me out. I have every intention of working as soon as I'm cleared from my DR but my last MRI doesn't look to good with two more disks messed up. Not to many employers will hire someone with injuries. He makes over 100 grand a year and with this raise he could get 150 a year? Should I get my own attorney anyway assuming someone will take me with no income?
One thing I learned through all of this is to teach my girls to always have your own income!!!!! Never fall for the line "Stay home and care for the kids they need you" I made this mistake but then I got hurt!!!!
Any advice?

Honey, get your own attorney. Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES use the same attorney that he uses. If you do that you will get screwed. You have been married long enough that you are entitled to some temporary alimony at least....particularly since you are disabled.

In addition, while it is totally fair that he would get assets equivalent to the debt if he takes on all the debt, everything else should be split in half. That may mean that he can keep his entire retirement fund, but you should get other assets equivalent to 1/2 of the 10,000 balance in the retirement fund. He shouldn't get to keep an extra 10,000 in assets just because he is taking on the debt.

Also, if there are debts that are solely in your name....and he agrees to take those on (again in exchange for assets)...then you need an attorney to make sure that its set up so that he actually has to do that...or he can just not pay them and destroy your credit.

He can try to play games by electing to put an extra 1000.00 a month into his retirement fund but playing games is exactly what that will be, and unless you have your own attorney he could get away with it.

PLEASE get yourself your own attorney.

 

[Theresalee]

That's what I thought!! I figured but I don't want a long drug out fight either. But I doubt a judge would order a disabled person to pay half a debt when he is able to with the money he makes.
He is acting like that retirement is gold!! There has to be a reason? I agree he physically made that money by all means it is his and he has always been in charge of it, but I also raised 5 kids on my own while he chased his career b/c he wanted it.. and was to jealous to let me work... Then when I was able to work and stopped due to my injury he didn't have a problem spending my retirement!! Can he be ordered or asked to pay for my attorney? I literally have nothing.. I did find a place I could live. But no income until he is ordered to give me something. He is holding this over my head. How quick will I get temp support? I mean not exact but will my attorney ask for a quick date? Thanks for the help, I respect the advice here b/c the help I got last time was right on the money!!! Felt good to show him those papers when he didn't believe me!!

 

[LdiJ]

That's what I thought!! I figured but I don't want a long drug out fight either. But I doubt a judge would order a disabled person to pay half a debt when he is able to with the money he makes.
He is acting like that retirement is gold!! There has to be a reason? I agree he physically made that money by all means it is his and he has always been in charge of it, but I also raised 5 kids on my own while he chased his career b/c he wanted it.. and was to jealous to let me work... Then when I was able to work and stopped due to my injury he didn't have a problem spending my retirement!! Can he be ordered or asked to pay for my attorney? I literally have nothing.. I did find a place I could live. But no income until he is ordered to give me something. He is holding this over my head. How quick will I get temp support? I mean not exact but will my attorney ask for a quick date? Thanks for the help, I respect the advice here b/c the help I got last time was right on the money!!! Felt good to show him those papers when he didn't believe me!!

Yes, its highly probable that in the end he will have to pay for your attorney....or at least that attorney fees will be taken into consideration in the property settlement. DO NOT move out of the marital home until/unless you are protected under a court order.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

Get an attorney.
Remember that debt is HIS except for any JOINT debt and I already told you what to do about that up until the day the judge signed the Nunc Pro Tunc.
Get a copy of your credit report.
You should be entitled to spousal support and 1/2 or more of his retirement if he has already spent your retirement!
Don't let him push you around, because he knew exactly what he was doing.
Do expect that if you get the attorney or take action before he gets the promotion he will not get it, but don't let that stop you from getting an attonrey and asking for him to pay attorney's fees, if he doesn't want an attorney, so he is only paying for one attorney, that is ok as long as the attorney is working for you.
Try to get custody of your daughter and him to pay child support, also try for college expenses.
I'm glad you got your Nunc Pro Tunc in the mail finally, what a relief, what was his reaction when you showed it to him?

 

[Theresalee]

It was funny b/c just last week he let it slip in an argument that he thought I was full of it and the nunc pro tunc wasn't signed but of course I didn't get much of a reaction b/c then that would prove "HE WAS WRONG" and god forbid he is never wrong!! I also expected an apoligy after I showed him my MRI with my neck damage after telling me he would tell the judge I was faking it and he would try to stop my work comp money? He was being brutal and mean!!! Granted I came right back with a few things of my own!! I figured he was trying to screw me with his retirement thing but I new I had some great advice here. He thretened me big time if I get my own attorney he would make this HELL for me but it appears it will be hell for him? I was hoping if I get anything from my injury claim I could get me and my daughter a small apartment with that? He will **** when I don't throw it all into the bills to pay them off but just like that 1000.00 he wants to put into retirement... How can I hang onto any of that injury money? If I put it into savings in just my name he will have a fit, and can he touch it through court? My hearing is May 3rd... Man will he be pissed!!!! So I will stay in the home while we go through court proceedings, get my OWN attorney.. I have a feeling he may try to manipulate my daughter into staying with him, he already told her he couldn't afford for her to stay with me? But she says she is going with me, I told her I would love to have her but it is her choice. Even though I don't think it's healthy since he told her Girls/women are useless!! We have one boy that he has spent a lot on to go to school to be a fireman just like dad and I think she deserves the same type of education.. I have a feeling this is going to be a nasty divorce!!! B/c he feels I don't deserve any money at all!!! Sorry for the ramble!! but this is the type Im dealing with..... I am not looking forward to this at all... Thanks a lot I have been able to use something everyone has offered in each post and it all has been right on the money so far!!! That new paper work looked great with that judges signture and the seal on it, I felt like framing it cause it was something he didn't have a damn thing to do with!!! o.k sorry I'm rambling again but I'm excited about that nunc pro tunc worked out and the phone conference and they did all the paper work except the disability claim!! Couldn't believe how easy it turned out to be!!! I can't thank you ENOUGH!!!! rmet!!!! Now to get an attorney? I may wait until the hearing for my work comp hearing in a few weeks? B/c he threatened to cause problems for me with it, but what to do with any I'm awarded? Again Thanks a million!!!!

 

[rmet4nzkx]

Do you have a worker's comp attorney? Before you make a SSDI application be sure to get help from the independent living center, it will help you get approved the first go round but most the time they automatically deny most first time applicants. Winning a WC case doesn't mean anything to the clerks at the state who process the SS claims. It is very important the doctor says that you are disabled in addition to the reports and tests.

If you win the WC case and of the SSDI claim, keep your money separate, in a separate account in a separate bank. BE VERY CAREFUL when you pick your PIN's for your account and change the default code from a part of your SSN, you can do it, make these PIN's totally unique numbers so that he cannot access your account to get information over the phone or get an ATM card sent to him. Don't tell him what you are doing and if he tries to access your account there will be a record of it. Change the PINS on you joint accounts for you, don't tell him you have done that either, in case he tries to transfer joint funds and make it look as if you did it.

I saw a case where a woman transferred all the funds from her husband's business and separate accounts into her personal account while at the same time claiming he had withdrawn all the funds from their business in an attempt to kidnap their children and take them out of the country. She flasely claimed domestic violence, got emergency orders and got sympathy from someone who took in this pennyless victim and hid her and her children while she had thousands on dollars in her personal account and kidnapped her own children.

Also if you don't have a passport, get one, the post office has applications. When you have it, go to the bank and in addition to changing the PIN's also add that in order to make transactions that you must show your passport instead of your drivers license. Why is this important, because you will have to include your account numbers in the divorce papers, even though you can have financial records sealed to the public and your husband will already have access to your SSN and the usual codes you might use. It will frustrate him trying to access your accounts. After the divoce, get new accounts.

When did you file your 2004 taxes? How did you file? If you filed married and joint you may want to amend your return to married filing separate and file a 8857 form for innocent spouse because of your husband's fraud. You may want to go back several years, this will help you make the case of fraud against him since he knew you were not legally married and lead you to believe you were. The judge will ask about this in the divorce and if you do this now it will show when you learned the error you made effort to correct it even though your originally received incorrect advice, if CA were a common law marriage state it would be different. This will help you prove that most of the debt is his. Including that which he forced you to sign for his purchases. His actions are a form of domestic abuse.
Publication 3512 (Rev. 3-2001) ... s_tree/index.html. If you believe you may qualify for relief,. file Form 8857, Request for Innocent. Spouse Relief. IRS will consider all the ...
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p3512.pdf

Innocent Spouse Statement
Information from the IRS on help for spouses who have tax liability because of erroneous filing by a partner. Batterers may threaten to use legal issues ...
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f12507.pdf

Can you see how this will help nutralize his threats?

Start looking for an attorney now. Since he is a firefighter it may be difficult to find an attorney that may not have a confilict of interest. If there are exwives of firefighters in your community, you might ask them for reccommodations or go down to the courthouse and look up their divorce files and see who their attorney's were, unfortunately your county doesn't have family court cases online. The bar association can give you a list of attorney's. You will need an attorney, this is too complex and contested to try to do it through the FLF's office although you will possibly be ordered to mediation because you still have a minor child. It is also important if you are going to ask for college support, because ther other children received it, that you file before your daughter reached 18 or graduates from high school, unless you can get him to agree in writing to provide for her college while you are still married. This won't be legally binding but it will be a sign of his intent, which will be in question .


Be sure to follow through on all the creditcard debit and make sure you are not on these as joint before the Nunc Pro Tunc was signed. If you have trouble doing this, ask to speak to their fraud department, ask for separate accounts or to be removed from his accounts. Check your credit report until this is all resolved, this may take several months. Have your credit reports flaged for possible fraud, because he will try to get you put back on these accounts later.

Good luck

 

[LdiJ]

Do you have a worker's comp attorney? Before you make a SSDI application be sure to get help from the independent living center, it will help you get approved the first go round but most the time they automatically deny most first time applicants. Winning a WC case doesn't mean anything to the clerks at the state who process the SS claims. It is very important the doctor says that you are disabled in addition to the reports and tests.

If you win the WC case and of the SSDI claim, keep your money separate, in a separate account in a separate bank. BE VERY CAREFUL when you pick your PIN's for your account and change the default code from a part of your SSN, you can do it, make these PIN's totally unique numbers so that he cannot access your account to get information over the phone or get an ATM card sent to him. Don't tell him what you are doing and if he tries to access your account there will be a record of it. Change the PINS on you joint accounts for you, don't tell him you have done that either, in case he tries to transfer joint funds and make it look as if you did it.

I saw a case where a woman transferred all the funds from her husband's business and separate accounts into her personal account while at the same time claiming he had withdrawn all the funds from their business in an attempt to kidnap their children and take them out of the country. She flasely claimed domestic violence, got emergency orders and got sympathy from someone who took in this pennyless victim and hid her and her children while she had thousands on dollars in her personal account and kidnapped her own children.

Also if you don't have a passport, get one, the post office has applications. When you have it, go to the bank and in addition to changing the PIN's also add that in order to make transactions that you must show your passport instead of your drivers license. Why is this important, because you will have to include your account numbers in the divorce papers, even though you can have financial records sealed to the public and your husband will already have access to your SSN and the usual codes you might use. It will frustrate him trying to access your accounts. After the divoce, get new accounts.

When did you file your 2004 taxes? How did you file? If you filed married and joint you may want to amend your return to married filing separate and file a 8857 form for innocent spouse because of your husband's fraud. You may want to go back several years, this will help you make the case of fraud against him since he knew you were not legally married and lead you to believe you were. The judge will ask about this in the divorce and if you do this now it will show when you learned the error you made effort to correct it even though your originally received incorrect advice, if CA were a common law marriage state it would be different. This will help you prove that most of the debt is his. Including that which he forced you to sign for his purchases. His actions are a form of domestic abuse.
Publication 3512 (Rev. 3-2001) ... s_tree/index.html. If you believe you may qualify for relief,. file Form 8857, Request for Innocent. Spouse Relief. IRS will consider all the ...
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p3512.pdf

Innocent Spouse Statement
Information from the IRS on help for spouses who have tax liability because of erroneous filing by a partner. Batterers may threaten to use legal issues ...
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f12507.pdf

Can you see how this will help nutralize his threats?

Start looking for an attorney now. Since he is a firefighter it may be difficult to find an attorney that may not have a confilict of interest. If there are exwives of firefighters in your community, you might ask them for reccommodations or go down to the courthouse and look up their divorce files and see who their attorney's were, unfortunately your county doesn't have family court cases online. The bar association can give you a list of attorney's. You will need an attorney, this is too complex and contested to try to do it through the FLF's office although you will possibly be ordered to mediation because you still have a minor child. It is also important if you are going to ask for college support, because ther other children received it, that you file before your daughter reached 18 or graduates from high school, unless you can get him to agree in writing to provide for her college while you are still married. This won't be legally binding but it will be a sign of his intent, which will be in question .


Be sure to follow through on all the creditcard debit and make sure you are not on these as joint before the Nunc Pro Tunc was signed. If you have trouble doing this, ask to speak to their fraud department, ask for separate accounts or to be removed from his accounts. Check your credit report until this is all resolved, this may take several months. Have your credit reports flaged for possible fraud, because he will try to get you put back on these accounts later.

Good luck

Rmet...I disagree with some of that. I think it could blow up on her. The whole reason for the Nunc Pro Tunc was so that their marriage would be legal and she could claim the benefits of that marriage (ie marital assets, alimony etc.)...I don't think that a judge is going to allow her the benefits of the marriage (assets) without taking the responsibility of the debt as well....its contradictory.

I really don't think its in her best interest to amend any tax returns or do anything else to claim a "non-married" status at any point in the last 20 some years....the whole problem was a clerical error that the Nunc Pro Tunc

Plus, honestly....I can tell you that it would seriously hurt her financially to amend her tax returns....which is another reason why I strongly advise against it. Plus, for any year that she did not have income she couldn't file separately anyway.

If I am forgetting something, and he committed some sort of tax fraud that she has recently discovered, then she can file the innocent spouse form without amending her tax returns.

 

[Theresalee]

No I didn't work out of the home until 1994 b/c he didn't allow it to put it mildly!! He wanted me to tay home a babysit others kids but in 1994 he was o.k. with me working at my chidrens school which I was employeed by for 6 years until I got hurt on the job.. He approved of that job so it wasn't problem, now he is claiming I should get a job? and should have all along? When I have been temporarily disabiled according to my DR's? I do have an attorney and have filed for Disability, the Attorney told me she will help if they deny it.. Also I will file in another County since we have a 3 county option , he is the a Fire Cheif in this area but I don't think it will matter Attorney wise i mean, as long as they will take me as a client with no money... Yes my retiremnet was spent with in this household for the 6 or more years I worked...
Also I truley believe he knew there could be a chance we were never legally married and when it was brought up a few years ago he told me he talked to an attorney who told him the worst that happened was we were not married for those 5 days before my first divorce was over. This is what my husband told me, now he either was lied too by this attorney or he lied to me? I m banking on my husband lying. I brought it up over the years just to check on it and he said we are married over and over!! But b/c I had threaten divorce in the past and he had a bad divorce before, I believe he was trying to protect himself from it, now with him worrying almost daily about retirement and claiming he wants to put more into it, sounds like a game to me. I would have left during our last discussion to see a attorney but he hid both sets of keys and wouldn't let me leave.. So I will get a new key made and hide it b/c I have no doubt this will happen again... I can print this info out you guys presented and show it to my attorney and see what he/she thinks? Just a thought?