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"KIDNAPPED" by Grandparents? Custody is that easily "TAKEN"?

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swapper

Junior Member
What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state? ARKANSAS !My daughter and her husband have an adorable and very precious daughter that will be 2 years old in a couple of weeks. The kids (the husband and wife), as do ALL young couples I know of, argue occasionally-and quite understandably so in these trying, struggling, economically depressed times they are today subjected to.

During one of their arguments (or word exchanges) my son-in-laws parents arrived at the home of the kids, volunteering to take the baby to their home for the night (this was something those grandparents as well as my wife and myself did, we couldn't wait for our turn to have that Granddaughter over for the night. While my son-in-laws parents were there, and in the middle of the kids' arguing the mother coerced the kids into signing a paper that a local attorney in a town of around 6,000 people had drawn up for her, giving her husband and herself guardianship rights. Stating to them that the police would soon be there and "TAKE" the child, diabling ANY of us from getting her back. The kids were under the distinct impression that it was simply an overnight thing, they both trusted his parents infinitely-why wouldn't they, they were his parents from birth-the two primary people he trusted above and beyond anyone else on this planet-as it SHOULD be in a relationship of parent and child.

The next day they learned that her (the son-in-laws mother) intentions were far less than honorable as she told them they signed a legal document. And they learned too, that she had begun this "Take-Over" over a month prior to the day she actually acted upon it. Totally without notice or the kids' knowledge a judge acted solely upon whatever the mother might have said and issued an order directing guardianship to the other Grandparents

The kids now see their only child only a few times weekly. My wife and myself went from seeing her almost daily to now about once a week-sometimes less. That little girl is the light and joy in the lives of 4 people that love her endlessly. Then suddenly-for absolutely NO reason known to anyone, she is removed from our lives.

My wife and I miss this child immensely. However, NOTHING can compare to how broken hearted the kids are distraught over the entire matter that it is difficult for either of them to function in a normal manner. Last week they had the child for a couple of days and the parents were totally ecstatic. The baby, upon first arriving, was not her talkative, happy, joyous self-but after a very short few minutes they were the happiest family of 3 I believe I have ever seen.

Those 3 need to be re-united in the worst way. The entire issue at hand was meaningless, senseless and totally uncalled for. This family MUST get back together, as you can see it troubles the baby terribly when it's time to depart from her birth parents. And it's as though the world ends for the kids each time the goodbye's are called for. It is a pitiful shame.

My QUESTIONS are as follows;

Within the color of law, how can someone "SECRETLY" gain guardianship of a child from her BIRTH parents ONLY on what this single individual had told an attorney and possibly a judge? :confused:

And under the circumstances where such a major action would take place in a court of law, would the parents have to be notified in some form or another that such an action was being processed against them? Or can anyone in or within a family structure take such action against another completely and totally WITHOUT their having any knowledge what-so-ever of this action? :confused:

Isn't it also required that such a proceeding within the Probate Division of the Circuit Court be made public notice in a newspaper for X amount of inserts or days? :confused:

And in our society today, how TRULY secure are we-are our lives-in this nation that such an incident can occur-that another family member can literally TAKE your child, walk away and inform you that THEY are taking over custody? Is it a true Democratic society that allows such communistic actions take place within it's borders? Should everyone that has a disagreement with their legal spouse be concerned that a family member will TAKE their child or children? :confused:

I am very aware that Arkansas is somewhat behind times, but, could the states judicial system be THAT far behind the rest of the country? :confused:

I would greatly appreciate any suggestions, input, advice, a resolution directive, or anything else that might assist us in this tragic matter.

Thank you very much.

Respectfully and Sincerely, A Broken-hearted Grandfather !!! :(
 


stealth2

Under the Radar Member
Is there something missing from this story? 'Cause it does sound quite bizarre. In any event, if I were your daughter and son-in-law, I'd be speaking with a lawyer ASAP.
 

Phnx02

Member
swapper said:
What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state? ARKANSAS !My daughter and her husband have an adorable and very precious daughter that will be 2 years old in a couple of weeks. The kids (the husband and wife), as do ALL young couples I know of, argue occasionally-and quite understandably so in these trying, struggling, economically depressed times they are today subjected to.

During one of their arguments (or word exchanges) my son-in-laws parents arrived at the home of the kids, volunteering to take the baby to their home for the night (this was something those grandparents as well as my wife and myself did, we couldn't wait for our turn to have that Granddaughter over for the night. While my son-in-laws parents were there, and in the middle of the kids' arguing the mother coerced the kids into signing a paper that a local attorney in a town of around 6,000 people had drawn up for her, giving her husband and herself guardianship rights. Stating to them that the police would soon be there and "TAKE" the child, diabling ANY of us from getting her back. The kids were under the distinct impression that it was simply an overnight thing, they both trusted his parents infinitely-why wouldn't they, they were his parents from birth-the two primary people he trusted above and beyond anyone else on this planet-as it SHOULD be in a relationship of parent and child.

The next day they learned that her (the son-in-laws mother) intentions were far less than honorable as she told them they signed a legal document. And they learned too, that she had begun this "Take-Over" over a month prior to the day she actually acted upon it. Totally without notice or the kids' knowledge a judge acted solely upon whatever the mother might have said and issued an order directing guardianship to the other Grandparents

The kids now see their only child only a few times weekly. My wife and myself went from seeing her almost daily to now about once a week-sometimes less. That little girl is the light and joy in the lives of 4 people that love her endlessly. Then suddenly-for absolutely NO reason known to anyone, she is removed from our lives.

My wife and I miss this child immensely. However, NOTHING can compare to how broken hearted the kids are distraught over the entire matter that it is difficult for either of them to function in a normal manner. Last week they had the child for a couple of days and the parents were totally ecstatic. The baby, upon first arriving, was not her talkative, happy, joyous self-but after a very short few minutes they were the happiest family of 3 I believe I have ever seen.

Those 3 need to be re-united in the worst way. The entire issue at hand was meaningless, senseless and totally uncalled for. This family MUST get back together, as you can see it troubles the baby terribly when it's time to depart from her birth parents. And it's as though the world ends for the kids each time the goodbye's are called for. It is a pitiful shame.

My QUESTIONS are as follows;

Within the color of law, how can someone "SECRETLY" gain guardianship of a child from her BIRTH parents ONLY on what this single individual had told an attorney and possibly a judge? :confused:

And under the circumstances where such a major action would take place in a court of law, would the parents have to be notified in some form or another that such an action was being processed against them? Or can anyone in or within a family structure take such action against another completely and totally WITHOUT their having any knowledge what-so-ever of this action? :confused:

Isn't it also required that such a proceeding within the Probate Division of the Circuit Court be made public notice in a newspaper for X amount of inserts or days? :confused:

And in our society today, how TRULY secure are we-are our lives-in this nation that such an incident can occur-that another family member can literally TAKE your child, walk away and inform you that THEY are taking over custody? Is it a true Democratic society that allows such communistic actions take place within it's borders? Should everyone that has a disagreement with their legal spouse be concerned that a family member will TAKE their child or children? :confused:

I am very aware that Arkansas is somewhat behind times, but, could the states judicial system be THAT far behind the rest of the country? :confused:

I would greatly appreciate any suggestions, input, advice, a resolution directive, or anything else that might assist us in this tragic matter.

Thank you very much.

Respectfully and Sincerely, A Broken-hearted Grandfather !!! :(

Yes, it sounds like these other grandparents "secretly" had guardianship papers drawn up and ready to serve well in advance. I am not familiar with how all this exactly works, but I assume such papers can be drafted by anyone with or without legal representation......as long as it's written correctly (anyone can research such things by simply visiting a law library). However, I believe nothing is valid unless the biological parents sign the papers. Which they did. But at the same time, I think as easily as these papers were signed, it's just as easy to "revoke" guardianship. Simply have the kids serve them with the proper "revocation of guardianship" docs.....no signature required. They're their kids and have not given custody to them.....the are free to take the kids back anytime they want. I may be wrong....anyone else is free to answer your question.....but I think it's this easy.
 

CJane

Senior Member
We're talking 'guardianship', not 'custody', correct?

Here's what I found about guardianship in Arkansas...

http://standbyguardianship.org/national/ar.asp

Everything that I googled seems to indicate that guardianship can only be transferred if the parent is chronically ill or incarcerated.

The parents need to call an attorney, and get their kids back. Guardianship and custody are NOT the same things. They also need to see if anything was actually filed with the court. It's my (non-legal) understanding that without a court order to NOT see their kids, nothing can stop them from just taking them back.
 

swapper

Junior Member
rmet4nzkx said:
Is today's thread an update from this thread?
https://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?t=228572
Has the judge signed the guardianship order?
If so have the parents formally sought reunification or any visitation orders?
Were there police reports?



Yes a judge DID sign the order.

The parents spoke with a local attorney that gave them some very foolish advice such as; go to school and maintain employment; do NOT move out to the country, move into town ONLY; and a couple more silly items having nothing to do with anything. The parents are getting visitation as per the discretion of his mother as to dates, time, etc. The parents have not persued anything formal through the court. Too, this is a small town of 6,000 in the Southern Bible Belt-probably 50% or more of the population is interelated, for instance the court clerk that filed the order mentioned above is something like a cousin to the grandmother persuing this matter-and that is only one that I am aware of. I wholeheartedly believe that the local "good ole' boy" attorney they spoke with is leading them astray-possibly another relative, friend, or ????.

No, there are NO police reports. The attorney they spoke with DID offer them some realistic advice, being-do NOT call the local police or sheriffs office for any reason, and I quote," because they are all crooked". And, that was a statement of pure fact-I KNOW that is the truth about this area.

Thank you for your input and concern-you are a fine person.
 

swapper

Junior Member
stealth2 said:
Is there something missing from this story? 'Cause it does sound quite bizarre. In any event, if I were your daughter and son-in-law, I'd be speaking with a lawyer ASAP.



No, there is nothing missing from the story.

It IS extremely bizarre, without a doubt. And what REALLY astonishes me is the fact that law enforcement as a whole in a small town and county like this can be played by someone. Because I did not mention that the grandmother that has stirred this mess has a very wealthy father-in-law. They themselves aren't wealthy-however, they live comfortably. But the other grandfather's dad DOES have money.

As I stated in the first post, the kids DID seek an attorney for counsel, but the attorney told them some quite bizarre things they should be doing-none of which made sense at all for the issue at hand.

Too, the kids have NO money, they are young and struggling. My wife and I have none either-in fact I am currently awaiting on a reply from Social Security trying to obtain benefits due to severe heart problems (and this matter SURE isn't making that any better).

I thank you very much for your response, questions and concern. There are few good people left in our world today, but I can see you are one of the few.
 

swapper

Junior Member
Phnx02 said:
Yes, it sounds like these other grandparents "secretly" had guardianship papers drawn up and ready to serve well in advance. I am not familiar with how all this exactly works, but I assume such papers can be drafted by anyone with or without legal representation......as long as it's written correctly (anyone can research such things by simply visiting a law library). However, I believe nothing is valid unless the biological parents sign the papers. Which they did. But at the same time, I think as easily as these papers were signed, it's just as easy to "revoke" guardianship. Simply have the kids serve them with the proper "revocation of guardianship" docs.....no signature required. They're their kids and have not given custody to them.....the are free to take the kids back anytime they want. I may be wrong....anyone else is free to answer your question.....but I think it's this easy.


Thank you for your time and concern in this matter of such grave importance to our family.

Then you believe that a properly worded draft in the form heading of, "Revocation of Guardianship" COULD be executed to the other grandparents BY the kids? AND be done so WITHOUT a judges signature? Would such a document need to also be filed with the courts clerk-do you think? Or possibly be notorized, assuring that it actually WAS the parents draft?

I truly do thank you for your input.
 

swapper

Junior Member
CJane said:
We're talking 'guardianship', not 'custody', correct?

Here's what I found about guardianship in Arkansas...

http://standbyguardianship.org/national/ar.asp

Everything that I googled seems to indicate that guardianship can only be transferred if the parent is chronically ill or incarcerated.

The parents need to call an attorney, and get their kids back. Guardianship and custody are NOT the same things. They also need to see if anything was actually filed with the court. It's my (non-legal) understanding that without a court order to NOT see their kids, nothing can stop them from just taking them back.


Thank you for your interest, concern and vivid response. It does my heart good to see that there are good people still out there that will attempt to assist others with their concerns or problems, and you certainly are one of those good people.

That was an interesting find you made-that guardianship can only be transfered due to a chronic illness or incarceration-and neither of these existed in the issue with these kids.

As I've stated, they DID consult an attorney, however, I believe that attorney had been "bought" by the other grandparents family. This small town hosts only about 6 attorney's, making up only 4 firms. And due to no finances on our part an "out of town" is currently out of the question. I am now attempting to locate some legal aid source, or a pro bono attorney But in an economically depressed state SUCH as Arkansas, they are VERY few. And my findings thus far are that they work only in Civil Rights or such matters.

No other papers have been filed with the court EXCEPT for the guardianship request that I mentioned in my inital post. But, as with these local attorney's, these local judges can easily become a puppet to someone wealthy. And no, there is NOTHING filed ordering them to NOT see their child. That is, as far as we are AWARE there is nothing filed other than the above-mentioned document. Too, we have a single newspaper in this town that is published only once a week. Out of habit from years ago I CONSISTENTLY watch and read the "Public Notices" inserted by the courts clerks offices-and the issue has NEVER been published in any manner in our paper.

I again want to say thank you to you for your time and concern.
 

swapper

Junior Member
hemingway said:


I thank you for your interest and support in this matter. As with the other respondents-you are becoming a rare breed in our country, and I am proud to have communicated with someone that IS still a caring, concerned fellow human being.

I appreciate your input and I SHALL contact the above agencies to see where the parents stand with them.

Again, thank you immensly.
 

nagol818

Member
Nothing personal but please stop with all the thank you's. We get it! And as stupid as this sounds(which I know it does) it's driving this 8 month pregnant woman crazy. :D
 

swapper

Junior Member
CJane said:
We're talking 'guardianship', not 'custody', correct?

Here's what I found about guardianship in Arkansas...

http://standbyguardianship.org/national/ar.asp

Everything that I googled seems to indicate that guardianship can only be transferred if the parent is chronically ill or incarcerated.

The parents need to call an attorney, and get their kids back. Guardianship and custody are NOT the same things. They also need to see if anything was actually filed with the court. It's my (non-legal) understanding that without a court order to NOT see their kids, nothing can stop them from just taking them back.


Yes, this matter is regarding guardianship NOT custody-however, I am afraid that as THIS battle goes on she will be making moves towards custody.
 

swapper

Junior Member
nagol818 said:
Nothing personal but please stop with all the thank you's. We get it! And as stupid as this sounds(which I know it does) it's driving this 8 month pregnant woman crazy. :D


I'm terribly sorry that it bothers you, however, directed only to those that DO offer advice, input, etc.-I AM thankful, and yes, I will let them be made aware that I am. Had you offered anything as mentioned above, I would now be thanking you as well.
 

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