I own a 3 family in CT - I rent the efficency apartment to a single women - the price and lease reflects 1 person - we just found out her son has been living there (21 years old) for approx 6 months - she confirms this - can I charge her $20.00 for each month for the 2nd tenant to pay for the water and issue a new lease with a $125 increase for a second person.
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Landlord Question
- Thread starter CJMZ
- Start date
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H
happy&lucky
Guest
UH DUH do you know what is lease is for?
To prevent greedy landlords like you from Harassing tenants.
You can only change the terms when a lease ends...and you have to give 30 days notice if they have one months security or 60 days notice if they have 2 months or paid last months rent.
So do you want her to move, and take a chance on having an empty apartment for a few months?
To prevent greedy landlords like you from Harassing tenants.
You can only change the terms when a lease ends...and you have to give 30 days notice if they have one months security or 60 days notice if they have 2 months or paid last months rent.
So do you want her to move, and take a chance on having an empty apartment for a few months?
J
jlw1000
Guest
Don't listen to Happy on this one. He just likes to bash landlords. You stated your lease has an occupancy limit of 1 person, she has violated this agreement. Does this lease have a clause regarding "extra" tenants. Mine states something to the effect that if there are additional tenants the landlord can charge additional rents for the "extra" tenants. (The additional rent to be determined by the landlord.)
There are some good reasons for including this clause. First of all, extra tenants usually mean extra wear and tear on the property, and therefore added maintenance costs. Secondly, should a tenant cram too many people onto a property (i.e. 3 families living in a 2 bedroom unit), the landlord can have the extra tenants removed and not violate any local occupany limits.
If the lease does not have this clause check your local landlord tenant codes on how to proceed. You can probably approach your tenant about completing a new lease since she is violating the old one (and could be subject to eviction if you so choose). She may be willing to complete a new lease with the new terms.
There are some good reasons for including this clause. First of all, extra tenants usually mean extra wear and tear on the property, and therefore added maintenance costs. Secondly, should a tenant cram too many people onto a property (i.e. 3 families living in a 2 bedroom unit), the landlord can have the extra tenants removed and not violate any local occupany limits.
If the lease does not have this clause check your local landlord tenant codes on how to proceed. You can probably approach your tenant about completing a new lease since she is violating the old one (and could be subject to eviction if you so choose). She may be willing to complete a new lease with the new terms.
H
happy&lucky
Guest
I think he wouldn't have asked the question if he actually put in the lease the occupancy limit is 1.
So with Nothing in the lease, his only option is NOT to renew.
The tenant can refuse to sign a new lease, and there is NOTHING you can do untill the lease expires.
And even if the tenants signs a new lease a tenant might sue you for making her sign it under duress...of eviction.. Which will cost you a lot in legal fees.
So leave her alone, and dont renew the lease.
So with Nothing in the lease, his only option is NOT to renew.
The tenant can refuse to sign a new lease, and there is NOTHING you can do untill the lease expires.
And even if the tenants signs a new lease a tenant might sue you for making her sign it under duress...of eviction.. Which will cost you a lot in legal fees.
So leave her alone, and dont renew the lease.
Thank you for your response - to clarify, the lease does not specifically say that occupancy is limited to one. However, her name is the only one on the lease. I am not looking to evict her - she is generally a good tenant - but I would like her to pay for the extra usage of water that I incurred, and if her son is to stay on - I would like to draw up a new lease (hers expires this month) to compensate for it. So, I guess my question is - can I legally ask her to pay a fee for the months her son has been there, and offer her a renewal with an additional fee for the extra person. I know that landlords don't usually rate highly -but this is our property, and we would like to protect it as well.
H
happy&lucky
Guest
NO you cant ask for any back rent higher then what is on the lease.
Since the lease ends this month you would NOT be legally able to charge her a new rent until DECEMBER 1st anyway.
And whats with you greedy dumb people about water..?
Figure it out what does it add up to $5 a month more tops...geez.....cant you add?
So prove it to me its more then that!
The chance of you losing a good tenant by nickle and diming is why landlord have such BAD reputations!
Since the lease ends this month you would NOT be legally able to charge her a new rent until DECEMBER 1st anyway.
And whats with you greedy dumb people about water..?
Figure it out what does it add up to $5 a month more tops...geez.....cant you add?
So prove it to me its more then that!
The chance of you losing a good tenant by nickle and diming is why landlord have such BAD reputations!
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jlw1000
Guest
Write up the new lease to start December 1st. Instead of increasing the rent $125, just increase t $135 (that way you will get all your money back for the extra costs incurred for water usage).
Happy, when is the last time you paid a water/sewer bill? An extra tenant does not just cost $5 in water usage. The water usage usually doubles when the occupancy rate doubles. For my rental property that amounted to $60 a month ($720 a year). Expecting the tenant to pay for the extra water usage is not nickel & diming the tenant! If the amount is so "small" the tenant should not have a problem in paying for their water usage. Last time I checked the welfare system was separate from a landlord's business.
Happy, when is the last time you paid a water/sewer bill? An extra tenant does not just cost $5 in water usage. The water usage usually doubles when the occupancy rate doubles. For my rental property that amounted to $60 a month ($720 a year). Expecting the tenant to pay for the extra water usage is not nickel & diming the tenant! If the amount is so "small" the tenant should not have a problem in paying for their water usage. Last time I checked the welfare system was separate from a landlord's business.
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ilikepigsfeet
Guest
HHMMM....the only thing I would suggest is just be clear of how long of notice you need to give for a rent increase. I think it's 30 days, but that might be for month to month lease. I think you would be safe to start it on Dec. 1st. I think you should have the son fill out an application and then issue a letter to them saying that they have the option to sign a new lease with them both on it and the rent being "the number you came up with" to start on Dec. 1st. Then they have the choice to continue there under the new terms, or leave. Maybe the women will decide that her son needs to leave in which case you can decide to continue with the current arrangment. Just make sure this is all done at least 30 days before. Hope this helps!
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happy&lucky
Guest
OK JLW:
$60 a month $720 a year by how many apartments?
2, 3, 4?
then how much per year per apartment? then per month?
Water use does not double, and there is usually a minimum amount billed anyway.
You must get your facts straight.......are you billed on every gallon used OR are you billed a flat rate every month or 3 months OR are you billed say on a minimum of 10,000 gallons and everything ABOVE that is extra?
OK maybe i was low at $5 a month but how about $10?
$60 a month $720 a year by how many apartments?
2, 3, 4?
then how much per year per apartment? then per month?
Water use does not double, and there is usually a minimum amount billed anyway.
You must get your facts straight.......are you billed on every gallon used OR are you billed a flat rate every month or 3 months OR are you billed say on a minimum of 10,000 gallons and everything ABOVE that is extra?
OK maybe i was low at $5 a month but how about $10?
Thanks for the info, I sent over a new lease for her review today -I am going to ask the son for a separate application to fill out as well, if he is to stay. I am going to ask her for the 120 dollars, and see what happens - hopefully she will realize that she was wrong in trying to smuggle another tenant in for that period of time and pay up. I don't think that it is nickel and diming her - she cost me extra money - the water is billed by actual usuage - this was taken into consideration when trying to decide what the rental price would be. It isn't a charity - that is why they call it investment property.
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happy&lucky
Guest
well its your choice...i would nail your asss to the wall...
you have NO legal right to collect a higher rent until December 1st...PERIOD!
so hopefully she will sue you good, youre right this isnt charity is about you being a low life landlord.... and violating the lease.
YES you are violating the lease....you had NO provisons for any of this so now you want to screw the tenant, This IS nickle and diming a tenant...
If you were a professional, you would have just sent a new lease dated for December 1st with the new amounts and an application for the son...and NOT have demanded an ILLEGAL $120 which is no where stated in the lease....
A lease works BOTH ways....and YOU violated it,by demanding money you are NOT legally entitled to...
The tenant DID NOT do anything wrong....IF the tenant as of DEC 1st states her son is not going to live with her will you lower the rent?
IF you stated only ONE person can live in the apartment, and she had her son there THAT would be a violation of the lease...
AND most judges would accept the fact of having mail delivered as proof of residence....
So she can have vistors for as long as she wants, but no mail. BUT it is NOT in your lease Until December 1st.
Ps...... This would be a good time for the tenant to move and NOT pay Novemebers rent.... she has a justifiable reason you asked for an Illegal amount of money.. and demand you use her security for the last months rent.....and maybe even moving expenses.
And you would have to file for an evcition costing you more money, and the apartment would be emepty on DEC 1st...maybe hard to rent... so the tenant would have a lot of other choices to live.
YUP you could screw yourslef out of some serious money by breaking the lease.
you have NO legal right to collect a higher rent until December 1st...PERIOD!
so hopefully she will sue you good, youre right this isnt charity is about you being a low life landlord.... and violating the lease.
YES you are violating the lease....you had NO provisons for any of this so now you want to screw the tenant, This IS nickle and diming a tenant...
If you were a professional, you would have just sent a new lease dated for December 1st with the new amounts and an application for the son...and NOT have demanded an ILLEGAL $120 which is no where stated in the lease....
A lease works BOTH ways....and YOU violated it,by demanding money you are NOT legally entitled to...
The tenant DID NOT do anything wrong....IF the tenant as of DEC 1st states her son is not going to live with her will you lower the rent?
IF you stated only ONE person can live in the apartment, and she had her son there THAT would be a violation of the lease...
AND most judges would accept the fact of having mail delivered as proof of residence....
So she can have vistors for as long as she wants, but no mail. BUT it is NOT in your lease Until December 1st.
Ps...... This would be a good time for the tenant to move and NOT pay Novemebers rent.... she has a justifiable reason you asked for an Illegal amount of money.. and demand you use her security for the last months rent.....and maybe even moving expenses.
And you would have to file for an evcition costing you more money, and the apartment would be emepty on DEC 1st...maybe hard to rent... so the tenant would have a lot of other choices to live.
YUP you could screw yourslef out of some serious money by breaking the lease.
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jlw1000
Guest
Happy:
The $60 month increase is for a 2 bedroom house. There was one tenant & he moved his girlfriend in (without notifying me & the lease does state 1 person maximum). The water usage has more than doubled! I have had a plumber check the residence for leaks, running toilets, dripping faucets, etc. The water company has verified that the water meter is accurate. The billing is based on gallons used. (No minimums.)
The lease I have with the tenant states that he pays for water above normal usage as defined by the water company. This is above normal usage & he is paying. I did have the option to increase the rent, and have not done so, but have reserved the right in writing. I told him we would see how it goes in reference to repairs etc. If he & his girlfriend do not destroy the place the rent remains the same.
YOU MUST GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT BEFORE YOU START SPOUTING OFF!
I do not think CJMZ is a low life landlord, he is just trying to run his business in an honorable fashion. He rented an efficiency to one tenant, just because he expects to be reimbursed for the tenant she snuck in, does not make him a low life landlord.
The $60 month increase is for a 2 bedroom house. There was one tenant & he moved his girlfriend in (without notifying me & the lease does state 1 person maximum). The water usage has more than doubled! I have had a plumber check the residence for leaks, running toilets, dripping faucets, etc. The water company has verified that the water meter is accurate. The billing is based on gallons used. (No minimums.)
The lease I have with the tenant states that he pays for water above normal usage as defined by the water company. This is above normal usage & he is paying. I did have the option to increase the rent, and have not done so, but have reserved the right in writing. I told him we would see how it goes in reference to repairs etc. If he & his girlfriend do not destroy the place the rent remains the same.
YOU MUST GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT BEFORE YOU START SPOUTING OFF!
I do not think CJMZ is a low life landlord, he is just trying to run his business in an honorable fashion. He rented an efficiency to one tenant, just because he expects to be reimbursed for the tenant she snuck in, does not make him a low life landlord.
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happy&lucky
Guest
I beg to dissagree...once a landlord starts on that slippery slope it will be a lot easier next time to violate the lease.
The $120 extra he is asking for is Illegal, he should be upstanding enough to forget about it, and make sure in the NEXT lease these issues are addressed.
And the $60 a month that is your actual out of pocket extra cost for the increased water?
I just want a landlord to show me the bills, and prove it is an actual cost out of pocket, thats what you should do to your tenant, show him the water bills before and after....then any decent tenant would understand this.
The $120 extra he is asking for is Illegal, he should be upstanding enough to forget about it, and make sure in the NEXT lease these issues are addressed.
And the $60 a month that is your actual out of pocket extra cost for the increased water?
I just want a landlord to show me the bills, and prove it is an actual cost out of pocket, thats what you should do to your tenant, show him the water bills before and after....then any decent tenant would understand this.
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jlw1000
Guest
In my case the tenant has seen the water bills. I paid several months out of my own pocket before realizing his girlfriend was their (& had gone through the expense of having a plumber check out the property).
So excuse me if I don't side with sneaky tenants.
So excuse me if I don't side with sneaky tenants.
K
Kelly143
Guest
Hey dopedup&stupid. How do you figure that a $125 increase is illegal. Did you even read the original post??? The poster was asking about an increase on a NEW lease. You are an idiot, and I hope the moderators kick you off here soon.
Poster, you can ask for whatever increase you want. If she doesn't want to pay the increase, then she can't live there. I don't blame you for wanting the increase, there are two people living there, and it DOES cost a lot more for water. I would mention to her the reason that you are asking for the increase is because of her son living there and mention that you have already had to pay for additional water costs, but I wouldn't ask her for the money. I think if she is aware of these costs, it will make her a lot more likely to stay and pay the increase. Tell her if her son is not staying, then there won't be an increase. If he doesn't stay, in the new lease you NEED to state that there is a 1 person occupancy limit, as well as a visitor limit. My mother-in-law has a lease that states any visitors can only stay 3 nights a month, or 30 TOTAL nights a year or she will be charged extra. It is only fair,and again, if she doesn't like the new terms, she can move.
Poster, you can ask for whatever increase you want. If she doesn't want to pay the increase, then she can't live there. I don't blame you for wanting the increase, there are two people living there, and it DOES cost a lot more for water. I would mention to her the reason that you are asking for the increase is because of her son living there and mention that you have already had to pay for additional water costs, but I wouldn't ask her for the money. I think if she is aware of these costs, it will make her a lot more likely to stay and pay the increase. Tell her if her son is not staying, then there won't be an increase. If he doesn't stay, in the new lease you NEED to state that there is a 1 person occupancy limit, as well as a visitor limit. My mother-in-law has a lease that states any visitors can only stay 3 nights a month, or 30 TOTAL nights a year or she will be charged extra. It is only fair,and again, if she doesn't like the new terms, she can move.