laywer at traffic stop

[CdwJava]

Agreeing to identify and sign citation upon condition of speaking to counsel first. I don't understand traffic laws and about signing citations. i am not an individual juristic person under a perfect and absolute obligation to carry state property. it's my understanding that the state owns the license.

also if the car, can be taken without my consent, its not my property.

It's this simple. The citation is being issued in lieu of your physical arrest. If you fail to provide proper identification for the citation to be completed, or if you refuse to sign the citation, you will be arrested. Once you are arrested, if state law permits a tow, your car will be towed. In general, when the driver of a vehicle is arrested and the vehicle is on a public street, it will be impounded until the owner can get it released. There are several legal theories under which it can be impounded.

So, if you do no want to TALK to the officer, that's fine. Present him with the license and other required paperwork, affirm that the information is current (you can nod or answer, "Yes" or correct it verbally if you wish), and then he will write the citation and you will be on your way.

No officer is going to wait for your attorney. They do not have to.

- Carl

 

[CdwJava]

do you mean, I can not drive a motor vehicle? i am not in the business of operating my vehicle for hire. Aren't all licenses business license?

No.

You've been reading the whacko fringe websites, haven't you? If you go into court trying THAT angle, then arguing the court lacks jurisdiction because the gold fringe on the flag indicates it's a maritime court, you might as well get used to jail or writing cheks to pay for fines.

- Carl

 

[Dillon]

It's this simple. The citation is being issued in lieu of your physical arrest. If you fail to provide proper identification for the citation to be completed, or if you refuse to sign the citation, you will be arrested. Once you are arrested, if state law permits a tow, your car will be towed. In general, when the driver of a vehicle is arrested and the vehicle is on a public street, it will be impounded until the owner can get it released. There are several legal theories under which it can be impounded.

So, if you do no want to TALK to the officer, that's fine. Present him with the license and other required paperwork, affirm that the information is current (you can nod or answer, "Yes" or correct it verbally if you wish), and then he will write the citation and you will be on your way.

No officer is going to wait for your attorney. They do not have to.

- Carl

The citation is being issued in lieu of physical arrest, is there more to it? yes, i will be glad to sign and give id after I talk with counsel. i don't understand about signing citations laws. i am not a lawyer. is the citation a transaction of a security interest? what kind of appearance; general or special? can't i refuse for cause without dishonor? do i have 3 days to cancel a promise to appear agreement? what is the difference between a crime and a criminal offense? can i commit a crime if there is no breach of the peace? what is a lawful order? am i under a perfect and absolute obligation to carry state property and obey private state law?

 

[Dillon]

No.

You've been reading the whacko fringe websites, haven't you? If you go into court trying THAT angle, then arguing the court lacks jurisdiction because the gold fringe on the flag indicates it's a maritime court, you might as well get used to jail or writing cheks to pay for fines.

- Carl

you can believe that if it gives you comfort!

 

[CdwJava]

The citation is being issued in lieu of physical arrest, is there more to it? yes, i will be glad to sign and give id after I talk with counsel.

Then you can sign it at the jail. Like I said, the officer does not have to wait at the roadside for your attorney to hop into his Mercedes and roll to the scene of the stop. You can either provide the info and sign the citation (which is NOT an admission of guilt), or you can go to jail.

You're trying to obfuscate a simple and well-founded legal process with meaningless legal jargon. If you want to tilt at the windmill of the legal system and confront long-held and well supported law, hire that attorney, go out and get yourself stopped, then ask the officer to stand by while you wait for your attorney. Since you will probably be hooked and sent to jail and your car towed, you will then have the platform you seem to desire to go off on a tangent that has been followed by many before, and continually falls flat.

Good luck.

- Carl

 

[CdwJava]

you can believe that if it gives you comfort!

The courts are on my side ... not yours. But, if you want to believe such delusions, go ahead.

Oh yeah ... that's right ... it's a grand conspiracy!

Like I said previously, good luck. You're gonna need it.

- Carl

 

[Dillon]

The courts are on my side ... not yours. But, if you want to believe such delusions, go ahead.

Oh yeah ... that's right ... it's a grand conspiracy!

Like I said previously, good luck. You're gonna need it.

- Carl

can i kindly ask the officer to note on the citation, i will be agreeing to a special restricted appearance only, than there is only one issue for the prosecutor who has the burden of proof not the magistrate/commisioner. good luck on that one.

Slaves don't have to produce id. go figure !!!

"Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction."
—CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES, Article. XIII., Section. 1. [Proposed 1865; Ratified 1865]

involuntary servitude. The condition of one forced to labor -- for pay or not -- for another by coercion or imprisonment.
—Black's Law Dictionary, 7th Edition

servitude. The three types of servitude are easements, licenses, and profits. See EASEMENT; LICENSE; PROFIT.
—Black's Law Dictionary, 7th Edition

All Rights Reserved as always

 

[Dillon]

The courts are on my side ... not yours. But, if you want to believe such delusions, go ahead.

- Carl

are the courts the peoples courts, governments courts or are they private courts? who has complete and unrestricted access to these buildings?

 

[Dillon]

Questioning is one thing.

Producing the required documentation at the officer's request is another.

Yes, you have to provide your license, registration and proof of insurance.

now, thats the problem, can these required documents be used against me in a court of law? if so how does one become obligated to incriminate themselves and still have the right to remain silent and have assistance of counsel when involved in a police criminal investigation? are there two conflicting laws here? is any law that conflicts with the Consititution for the united States of America null and void? is the officer required to obey the Constitution over any statutory law? can i be arrested to exercising a fundamental right protected by the constitution? can i be arrested for a crime if i did not breach the peace?

 

[cyjeff]

now, thats the problem, can these required documents be used against me in a court of law? if so how does one become obligated to incriminate themselves and still have the right to remain silent and have assistance of counsel when involved in a police criminal investigation? are there two conflicting laws here? is any law that conflicts with the Consititution for the united States of America null and void? is the officer required to obey the Constitution over any statutory law? can i be arrested to exercising a fundamental right protected by the constitution? can i be arrested for a crime if i did not breach the peace?

because these documents, as Carl has patiently pointed out repeatedly, have been validated in various courts as being outside Miranda.

Since driving is a privilege and NOT a right... if you don't want to produce your license, don't get one and don't drive. If you want to drive, get a license and produce it.

No cop on the street is going to wait for your lawyer to appear. That is why we have jails.

 

[cyjeff]

are the courts the peoples courts, governments courts or are they private courts? who has complete and unrestricted access to these buildings?

They are the people's courts.

Feel free to attend court in any jurisdiction in the country. Unless the judge feels that something said is very sensitive (such as national security), you may just watch the proceedings.

 

[Dillon]

because these documents, as Carl has patiently pointed out repeatedly, have been validated in various courts as being outside Miranda.

Since driving is a privilege and NOT a right... if you don't want to produce your license, don't get one and don't drive. If you want to drive, get a license and produce it.

No cop on the street is going to wait for your lawyer to appear. That is why we have jails.

not outside the first and ninth amendments? think outside the box.
shouldn't i have a due process/probable cause hearing before jail? how can an officer make a legal determinenation not being a lawyer or judge? aren't all warrantless seisures unconstitution? itn't US v. carroll obsolete in the 21 century? does the officer need to be handed a writ of habeus corpus at every traffic not damage traffic stop?

 

[Dillon]

Then you can sign it at the jail.
Good luck.

- Carl

does one in jail need to sign anything?

 

[cyjeff]

not outside the first and ninth amendments? think outside the box.

What does the first amendment have to do with a traffic stop?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.​

Or the ninth?

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.​

shouldn't i have a due process/probable cause hearing before jail? how can an officer make a legal determinenation not being a lawyer or judge?

He/she is NOT making a legal determination. That is why we have court. Are you saying that the only place you can be arrested is court?

Probable cause and due process are debated in court... where BOTH sides have attorneys versed in law... cops are not attorneys (well, at least most aren't) and do not have the authority or training to do so.

aren't all warrantless seisures unconstitution? itn't US v. carroll obsolete in the 21 century?

No.

does the officer need to be handed a writ of habeus corpus at every traffic not damage traffic stop?

I guess you don't understand the whole "case law creates law" thing.

I tell you what... test your theory.

Go run a stop sign. Tell the cop that you aren't going to give him/her ANYTHING until your lawyer arrives.

Let us know how that works out for you.

 

[cyjeff]

does one in jail need to sign anything?

No, but one may be detained until identity is furnished and/or verified or until their legal counsel, if requested, arrives.

Do you believe that the police officer should endanger your and his/her safety by standing by the side of the road until your lawyer arrives... if ever?