Legality of asset protection for elderly mother

[cookiemonster]

What is the name of your state? FL

My sister and I are discussing what-if's concerning our elderly mother...here is the situation:
Our 80 year old mother sold her house in FL recently due to failing health. She opened an account with the procedes "for her children", she as the owner and the children as beneficiaries. She also opened an account with an amount to establish herself near my sister in another part of FL.
Now she is in a nursing home recovering from an accident. She is starting to shows signs of dementia. If it turns into long-term care, what are the legalities of a child with a Power of Attorney transferring the one account to the children's names? Please, before we are accused of being a pack of wolves drooling over Mom's money (sorry, just read a post where someone got chewed up), I just would like facts. Our concern is some government agency coming in and freezing her accounts and the family losing all control over something our mother/deceased father worked hard for.
If my sister has POA, can she legally transfer the money? Is there a maximum amount? What are the tax implications? How does this affect Mom's qualification for Medicaid? Any information would be greatly appreciated in helping us make informed decisions should the need arise. Thanks!

 

[BlondiePB]

What is the name of your state? FL

My sister and I are discussing what-if's concerning our elderly mother...here is the situation:
Our 80 year old mother sold her house in FL recently due to failing health. She opened an account with the procedes "for her children", she as the owner and the children as beneficiaries. She also opened an account with an amount to establish herself near my sister in another part of FL.
Now she is in a nursing home recovering from an accident. She is starting to shows signs of dementia. If it turns into long-term care, what are the legalities of a child with a Power of Attorney transferring the one account to the children's names? Please, before we are accused of being a pack of wolves drooling over Mom's money (sorry, just read a post where someone got chewed up), I just would like facts. Our concern is some government agency coming in and freezing her accounts and the family losing all control over something our mother/deceased father worked hard for.
If my sister has POA, can she legally transfer the money? Is there a maximum amount? What are the tax implications? How does this affect Mom's qualification for Medicaid? Any information would be greatly appreciated in helping us make informed decisions should the need arise. Thanks!

Any penny of mom's money that the POA withdraws from mom's account and gives to you, herself (the POA), and any other sibling is embezzelment AND Medicaid fraud when the POA applies for Medicaid.

 

[pojo2]

and the family losing all control over something our mother/deceased father worked hard for.

The good folks of Florida that you expect to take care of mom so you can have something also work very hard for their money.

 

[BlondiePB]

and the family losing all control over something our mother/deceased father worked hard for.

The good folks of Florida that you expect to take care of mom so you can have something also work very hard for their money.

Thank you (from a FL taxpayer).

 

[cookiemonster]

what i expected

Fair enough answer Blondie, if our family wanted to "embezzle" money, we wouldn't even be asking questions. Maybe we'll put her on an inflatable raft in the Atlantic and let her float in so she can get the whole package deal when she hits the shore. Should have expected more of an opinion rather than real legal knowledge from a "free" site. FYI, mom paid more than her fair share of taxes despite having next to no income, wrote a check for her outarageous property taxes every year, never asking for public assistance. Our concern is someone coming in and seeing she has money and freezing her account and keeping her alive just long enough to suck it dry. We have no problem paying for her care, as a matter of fact we already are, we just want to be able to write the checks ourselves but we don't know enough of the legalities to protect ourselves or our mother. I guess we'll just bend over and take it like a man, Viva government control! Thanks for nothing.

 

[anteater]

What are you babbling about? Keep writing the checks for mother's care and nobody is going to "freeze" her accounts.

What kind of response do you expect when your post reeks of contemplated Medicaid fraud (whether you intended that or not)?

If my sister has POA, can she legally transfer the money? Is there a maximum amount? What are the tax implications? How does this affect Mom's qualification for Medicaid?

 

[BlondiePB]

Fair enough answer Blondie, if our family wanted to "embezzle" money, we wouldn't even be asking questions. Maybe we'll put her on an inflatable raft in the Atlantic and let her float in so she can get the whole package deal when she hits the shore. Should have expected more of an opinion rather than real legal knowledge from a "free" site. FYI, mom paid more than her fair share of taxes despite having next to no income, wrote a check for her outarageous property taxes every year, never asking for public assistance. Our concern is someone coming in and seeing she has money and freezing her account and keeping her alive just long enough to suck it dry. We have no problem paying for her care, as a matter of fact we already are, we just want to be able to write the checks ourselves but we don't know enough of the legalities to protect ourselves or our mother. I guess we'll just bend over and take it like a man, Viva government control! Thanks for nothing.

My reply is NOT an opinion. IT IS FLORIDA LAW!

Furthermore, I am very well versed with resources that can LEGALLY help elders in FL I would have been glad to have shared them with you. Given your reply, you can just forget about receiving any resources to help your mom from me.

It's not your mom who needs to be set afloat on a raft in the Atlantic.

 

[earlofcrankcase]

Liked the crack about the raft. True, true. It's hard to not see corruprtion in everyone if you consider the type of people most attorneys have for cliants. Me I see the chance for corruption being a lot higher in someone conducting a health care business for profit than I do a mother's child looking for answers. Don't take this as fact as I am not an attorney.

What the government will be looking for is fraud. As long as you document every absolute thing you should be fine. Once your sister moves the money which is legal as long as it is all accounted for. The home will not know about it. It is not a crime to not tell them. The poa will have to account for the funds to the government only. You are only comitting a crime if you try to receive medicare while mom or the poa still has enough funds to not qualify for coverage.

You will probably find as I have that any home that takes medicare won't be good enough.
That fact has answered most of my estate planning questions.
I meet with an attorney 8/14 about the same.
I'm going to try a search for an eldercare support forum. Maybe I'll see you there.
Good luck

 

[BlondiePB]

What the government will be looking for is fraud. As long as you document every absolute thing you should be fine. Once your sister moves the money which is legal as long as it is all accounted for.

Move the money legally where?

The home will not know about it.

What nursing homes care about is being paid, NOT about how much money is in one's bank account.

It is not a crime to not tell them.

OMG, this is a correct statement you made.

The poa will have to account for the funds to the government only. You are only comitting a crime if you try to receive medicare while mom or the poa still has enough funds to not qualify for coverage.

You know NOT what you are talking about regarding MEDICARE and nursing homes.

 

[earlofcrankcase]

You know NOT what you are talking about regarding MEDICARE and nursing homes.



I see your point. This person is long gone so there is no point in reading it over again to help someone that won't see it.
All the hiding of funds to protect them from a corrupt ALF brings on to many opportunities for fraud or accusation of it. The best way to do this without going through the costs & troubles of a guardianship is to pick a good ALF in the first place. MO.
Don't get excited. I'm not questioning your sexuality.

 

[BlondiePB]

I'm Back!!

You know NOT what you are talking about regarding MEDICARE and nursing homes.



I see your point. This person is long gone so there is no point in reading it over again to help someone that won't see it.
All the hiding of funds to protect them from a corrupt ALF brings on to many opportunities for fraud or accusation of it. The best way to do this without going through the costs & troubles of a guardianship is to pick a good ALF in the first place. MO.
.

Six days after my last post to this thread, what exactly is your point to reply to this thread --other than the point on your head.

Originally Posted by earlofcrankcase
Don't get excited. I'm not questioning your sexuality.

This is totally inappropriate!!


Note to readers: My apologies for bringing this thread up. Had I not been away, a reply to "concrete-head" would have been much sooner.

 

[tryingtoplease]

Welcome back, Blondie. I wonder sometimes what Earl is smoking.

 

[BlondiePB]

Welcome back, Blondie. I wonder sometimes what Earl is smoking.

Thanks, hon. Though visiting family in New England was great, it's good to be home and just in time for Ernesto.

Perhaps Earl is smoking some "crank" -- afterall, his moniker includes crankcase.

I have a question for you since you are the Personal Representative (executor) of your mom's estate and she owns a mobile home out there in CA. Are mobile homes in CA homesteaded?

 

[tryingtoplease]

Thanks, hon. Though visiting family in New England was great, it's good to be home and just in time for Ernesto.

Perhaps Earl is smoking some "crank" -- afterall, his moniker includes crankcase.

I have a question for you since you are the Personal Representative (executor) of your mom's estate and she owns a mobile home out there in CA. Are mobile homes in CA homesteaded?

You know, that's a question I don't have an answer for. Per my lawyer, the mobile home did not have to go into probate as it could be transferred pursuant to H & S Code 18102(a) by filling out a certificate for transfer without probate. Mom had no other assets. My understanding was because it was a mobile home, it was not permanently attached to real estate. As for homesteading, I don't know if the same reasoning would apply. Sorry for the non answer.

On the bright side, at least it looks like you might have sidestepped Ernesto. I have an Aunt & Uncle who live in Ft. Myers & loves it yet rarely visits us here in CA because she's terrified there "might" be an earthquake. Go figure!

 

[BlondiePB]

You know, that's a question I don't have an answer for. Per my lawyer, the mobile home did not have to go into probate as it could be transferred pursuant to H & S Code 18102(a) by filling out a certificate for transfer without probate. Mom had no other assets. My understanding was because it was a mobile home, it was not permanently attached to real estate. As for homesteading, I don't know if the same reasoning would apply. Sorry for the non answer.

On the bright side, at least it looks like you might have sidestepped Ernesto. I have an Aunt & Uncle who live in Ft. Myers & loves it yet rarely visits us here in CA because she's terrified there "might" be an earthquake. Go figure!

Thanks for trying, tryingtoplease.

Yep, Ernesto just turned out to be a PITA. As for go figuring, just exactly how much advanced warning time do you have for an earthquake vs a hurricane?

Looks like we hijacked this thread. And, "concrete-head hasn't been back" ... a good thing for the posters here.