Liability Law Suite

[engy13]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? MI

Hello,

I am design engineer, I work for automotive company designing safety components.

Lets say 10 years down the road I get laid off because of bad economy and company is downsizing. One thing that I can do is send my resume to every lawyer in the country and offer witness testimony services on projects that I've been working on. My company does good work in terms of product, but sometimes quality lawyer can make a big deal out of some small detail.

My questions are:

How useful would my services be to a lawyer that is involved in liability law suit? Would having someone who worked on product that is being subject to law suit be beneficial to plaintiff attorney? I know that it depends on what I know. But generally speaking, would they even be interested to talk to me? Would they be interested enough to pay me money for my testimony? I want to get a general perspective. Seems to me that they would be interested because plaintiff attorneys often hire expert witnesses. Seems like having firsthand witness maybe helpful.
Is there limit on how much I can be paid by plaintiff attorney for my witness services?

My contract with my company has confidentiality paragraph that says that I can’t give out any information related to my company even after my employment termination. If plaintiff attorney gets sub poena judgment which orders me to give testimony, will that over write confidentiality agreement that I have/had with my employer?

Would that be difficult in this situation to get sub poena judgment for me to testify?

Do you guys have any other concerns that former employee should consider before providing testimony related to some product that he worked on in the past?
I am sorry if what I wrote does not make sense. All my knowledge of legal system comes from Wikipedia. I work on safety automotive components, I want to understand what potential professional situations I may be involved in future.

Thank you for your advice!

 

[sandyclaus]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? MI

Hello,

I am design engineer, I work for automotive company designing safety components.

Lets say 10 years down the road I get laid off because of bad economy and company is downsizing. One thing that I can do is send my resume to every lawyer in the country and offer witness testimony services on projects that I've been working on. My company does good work in terms of product, but sometimes quality lawyer can make a big deal out of some small detail.

My questions are:

How useful would my services be to a lawyer that is involved in liability law suit? Would having someone who worked on product that is being subject to law suit be beneficial to plaintiff attorney? I know that it depends on what I know. But generally speaking, would they even be interested to talk to me? Would they be interested enough to pay me money for my testimony? I want to get a general perspective. Seems to me that they would be interested because plaintiff attorneys often hire expert witnesses. Seems like having firsthand witness maybe helpful.
Is there limit on how much I can be paid by plaintiff attorney for my witness services?

My contract with my company has confidentiality paragraph that says that I can’t give out any information related to my company even after my employment termination. If plaintiff attorney gets sub poena judgment which orders me to give testimony, will that over write confidentiality agreement that I have/had with my employer?

Would that be difficult in this situation to get sub poena judgment for me to testify?

Do you guys have any other concerns that former employee should consider before providing testimony related to some product that he worked on in the past?
I am sorry if what I wrote does not make sense. All my knowledge of legal system comes from Wikipedia. I work on safety automotive components, I want to understand what potential professional situations I may be involved in future.

Thank you for your advice!

You do realize that your employment contract probably includes a non-disclosure agreement, right? I sure hope your CURRENT employer doesn't see this post. I certainly wouldn't want to have an employee working for me that is pretty much looking for a way to make money off of information that you would be utilizing that would also violate your NDA. People that are LOOKING to make a buck off of my company's potential problems that haven't even happened yet would certainly raise a red flag for me, especially from a company loyalty standpoint.

 

[Mass_Shyster]

Would they be interested enough to pay me money for my testimony?

Probably not. An expert witness can be paid, a fact witness cannot be paid. Since you have first hand knowledge of the company and its process, you could be called as a fact witness to testify to the manufacturing methods used by the company.

 

[engy13]

You do realize that your employment contract probably includes a non-disclosure agreement, right? I sure hope your CURRENT employer doesn't see this post. I certainly wouldn't want to have an employee working for me that is pretty much looking for a way to make money off of information that you would be utilizing that would also violate your NDA. People that are LOOKING to make a buck off of my company's potential problems that haven't even happened yet would certainly raise a red flag for me, especially from a company loyalty standpoint.

Dear sandyclaus,

Thank you for your comment.

This thread is not about braking law or trying to make extra income. This post is more so about quality of managment. I work sometimes 60 hours a week sacrificing my personal life and health to get the job done. Thats why I am stilled employed. There is about 50,000 other engineers who are not so fortunate and got laid off during financial crisis couple years ago. Thats not fair situation to them. If everyone of those engineers would have done what i described above, than maybe those poor falks wouldn't be fired.

But i do not want to get off topic and start ethical discussion. I want to better understand legal technical details.

So yes, NDA agreement prohibits one to provide witness testimony and nobody should be breaking this legal requirement. However, if there is sub poena judgment and you are required to testify by court, I believe NDA comitment would be over written. Do you agree with me?

Thank you,

engy13

 

[engy13]

Probably not. An expert witness can be paid, a fact witness cannot be paid. Since you have first hand knowledge of the company and its process, you could be called as a fact witness to testify to the manufacturing methods used by the company.

stevef,

Thank you for reply.

Why wouldn't I get paid? It would take an effort on my part which should be reasonably compensated. I am not talking about millions of dollars, but a little bit of money seems like a fair deal.

If they call me as a fact witness, why is it ok for me to provide testimony if I have NDA agreement which prohibits me to give out any internal information.

Thank you,

engy13

 

[Mass_Shyster]

Why wouldn't I get paid? It would take an effort on my part which should be reasonably compensated. I am not talking about millions of dollars, but a little bit of money seems like a fair deal.

It is your civic duty to provide testimony when called by the court to tell what happened.

If they call me as a fact witness, why is it ok for me to provide testimony if I have NDA agreement which prohibits me to give out any internal information.

A contract (NDA) cannot override the judicial system.

 

[tranquility]

You would not be paid because those things where you have direct knowledge, you are just a witness and not an expert. Like a person who sees the robbery, witnesses are not paid. For those things related to your employment where you gained special knowledge because of the employment, you would be prohibited by the non-disclosure clause. In other words, you can testify to what you saw or see. You cannot testify as to what you learned. You don't get paid for testifying about what you saw, but can for your opinion about what you already know.

 

[swalsh411]

There is no law requiring things to be "fair", only legal.

 

[engy13]

You would not be paid because those things where you have direct knowledge, you are just a witness and not an expert. Like a person who sees the robbery, witnesses are not paid. For those things related to your employment where you gained special knowledge because of the employment, you would be prohibited by the non-disclosure clause. In other words, you can testify to what you saw or see. You cannot testify as to what you learned. You don't get paid for testifying about what you saw, but can for your opinion about what you already know.

tranquility - Thank you for simple explanation, I understood it now.

Probably not. An expert witness can be paid, a fact witness cannot be paid. Since you have first hand knowledge of the company and its process, you could be called as a fact witness to testify to the manufacturing methods used by the company.

Stevef - thank you for your patience. I googled "fact witness" concept and now I understand it very well and why fact witnesses do not get paid.

There is no law requiring things to be "fair", only legal.

swalsh411 - I agree, well said.

 

[engy13]

Thank you all who replied to me, I enjoy this discussion very much. I would like to continue if you don't mind.

So ok, let’s say I worked for a company for 10 years, economy turned down and I was laid off unfortunately. Let’s say I send my resume to every lawyer in the country and offer my fact witness services. Sure I won't get paid. But it will be my way to get back at the company who I feel like mistreated me.

Weakness that fact witness in this situation would have is that all testimony would be verbal without much proof. I cannot take any documents or confidential material because of NDA agreement. All I can do is say what I've seen. Lets say I saw an operator at plant using torque gun which was out of spec and wasn't fixing some bolt to required spec. There was no spare torque gun immediately available so they run assembly line for half a day with bad torque gun tightening bolts. Parts will probably be ok, but nobody can say for sure. I have no documentary proof that this actually happened. I happened to be in plant that day, i saw it, but I have no proof and lets assume there is no way to find proof.

Above is hypothetical example, I made it up for the sake of discussion.

So I will give my testimony in court, but how useful would it actually be? Defendant side will say that they are not aware of such situation and I probably made it all up because I am trying to get back at the company. In this situation, would fact witness testimony do any good to plaintiff side? Do judges care about testimonies which have no proof? Maybe on scale 1-10, 10 being very helpful, how much difference fact witness testimonies actually make?

Thank you for your wisdom.

 

[justalayman]

But it will be my way to get back at the company who I feel like mistreated me.

in your scenario you work for the company for 10 years. That is 10 years you get paid an amount you agreed to work for. Surely an engineer understands the financial aspects of a business and realize that when the money isn't there to keep everybody employed, somebody is going to get laid off. That is not mistreating anybody.

If you believe you are being mistreated now, I suggest looking for employment elsewhere...now.

All I can do is say what I've seen.

and you somehow believe the information in your head is not covered by the NDA? While certain information can be required to be disclosed, I suspect you would be closely watched for any disclosure that is not required and likely sued for your actions.

Lets say I saw an operator at plant using torque gun which was out of spec and wasn't fixing some bolt to required spec.

unless that particular incident is the basis for the problem in the lawsuit, it is irrelevant. Beyond that, if you saw such an action, why have you not done something about it when you see it rather than store it away in your mental briefcase hoping so someday be able to use it to injure your former employer?

A person with your attitude will make a very bad witness. Those with grudges against their employer are often discounted as willing to say anything to injure their former employer.

Beyond that, attempting to evaluate such a hypothetical situation is impossible.

 

[engy13]

in your scenario you work for the company for 10 years. That is 10 years you get paid an amount you agreed to work for. Surely an engineer understands the financial aspects of a business and realize that when the money isn't there to keep everybody employed, somebody is going to get laid off. That is not mistreating anybody.

If you believe you are being mistreated now, I suggest looking for employment elsewhere...now.

and you somehow believe the information in your head is not covered by the NDA? While certain information can be required to be disclosed, I suspect you would be closely watched for any disclosure that is not required and likely sued for your actions.

unless that particular incident is the basis for the problem in the lawsuit, it is irrelevant. Beyond that, if you saw such an action, why have you not done something about it when you see it rather than store it away in your mental briefcase hoping so someday be able to use it to injure your former employer?

A person with your attitude will make a very bad witness. Those with grudges against their employer are often discounted as willing to say anything to injure their former employer.

Beyond that, attempting to evaluate such a hypothetical situation is impossible.

justalayman - thank you for your reply. My comments are below:

1. If you believe you are being mistreated now, I suggest looking for employment elsewhere...now.

This is not about me. I am happy where I am working. Its about many thousands of other people who got laid off few years back in Detroit metro.

2. and you somehow believe the information in your head is not covered by the NDA?

It maybe covered by NDA, but it may not be, depending on information. However, this does not matter. Because if person in this situation gets court order to give testimony, than testimony has to be given. A contract (NDA) cannot override the judicial system.

3. Beyond that, if you saw such an action, why have you not done something about it
Its not my job to watch assembly line. I didn't know who to talk to. I was in hurray. Its not my fault, its the system. There are millions of excuses.

4. Those with grudges against their employer are often discounted as willing to say anything to injure their former employer.
Well, its plaintiff attorney job to educate fact witness on how to give good testimony. If fact witness have seen something inappropriate, than that witness just have to be honest and say what he or she has seen. If plaintiff attorney wants to win case, he should educate fact witness on how to be a good witness.

My question though about importance of fact witnesses compared to expert witnesses. Are fact witnesses used in litigation much, or like you said, they are disregarded because there is no way to proof what they say and that they may be biased because of past employment history?

Thank you.

 

[justalayman]

justalayman - thank you for your reply. My comments are below:

1. If you believe you are being mistreated now, I suggest looking for employment elsewhere...now.

This is not about me. I am happy where I am working. Its about many thousands of other people who got laid off few years back in Detroit metro.

Oh, so they were mistreated while being paid their very good salary and when the companies went bankrupt or nearly so, it is mistreating them by laying off people in an attempt to save the company?

2. and you somehow believe the information in your head is not covered by the NDA?

It maybe covered by NDA, but it may not be, depending on information. However, this does not matter. Because if person in this situation gets court order to give testimony, than testimony has to be given. A contract (NDA) cannot override the judicial system.

read what I wrote again. I spoke to info not covered by the subpoena.

3. Beyond that, if you saw such an action, why have you not done something about it
Its not my job to watch assembly line. I didn't know who to talk to. I was in hurray. Its not my fault, its the system. There are millions of excuses.

so you admit to being a lazy non-caring employee? Do you really wonder why people like that were terminated? Their failure to act is one of the reasons they fell on such hard times financially.

4. Those with grudges against their employer are often discounted as willing to say anything to injure their former employer.
Well, its plaintiff attorney job to educate fact witness on how to give good testimony. If fact witness have seen something inappropriate, than that witness just have to be honest and say what he or she has seen. If plaintiff attorney wants to win case, he should educate fact witness on how to be a good witness.

what you are suggesting, unsupported statements, doesn't mean much of anything. It is useless generally.

My question though about importance of fact witnesses compared to expert witnesses. Are fact witnesses used in litigation much, or like you said, they are disregarded because there is no way to proof what they say and that they may be biased because of past employment history?

there is nothing inherently dishonest about a fact witness but what you are suggesting makes anybody that follows your design a very poor witness. One is a witness because they are asked or ordered to be a witness. Being a witness because you have a grudge against the company being sued makes for a very poor witness and generally able to be discredited.

 

[engy13]

justalayman - thank you for your reply. My comments are below:


Oh, so they were mistreated while being paid their very good salary and when the companies went bankrupt or nearly so, it is mistreating them by laying off people in an attempt to save the company?
read what I wrote again. I spoke to info not covered by the subpoena.

so you admit to being a lazy non-caring employee? Do you really wonder why people like that were terminated? Their failure to act is one of the reasons they fell on such hard times financially.

what you are suggesting, unsupported statements, doesn't mean much of anything. It is useless generally.

there is nothing inherently dishonest about a fact witness but what you are suggesting makes anybody that follows your design a very poor witness. One is a witness because they are asked or ordered to be a witness. Being a witness because you have a grudge against the company being sued makes for a very poor witness and generally able to be discredited.

justalayman - thank you for your reply. None of it taken personally.

I think many of you get caught up in bad example that I gave. There are many other reasons why someone may volunteer to give fact witness testimony.

Imagine I am retiree who worked for 30 years with a company. Now I am retired, bored and have nothing to do. But I want to still be part of community by offering any help I can and getting involved. One way to do it is to send my resume to every lawyer in the country and offer my fact witness services should they need my help. Some of my fact witness testimony may help plaintiff attorney to win case against my previous employer should there be one.
Sure it may not be fair to my previous employer but like swalsh411 said, there is no law requiring things to be "fair", only legal.
So, in this situation, how much effect fact witness testimony would have on result of the case? If you are not comfortable about giving answer to this hypothetical scenario either, can you tell me in general, how often fact witnesses are used in liability law suits? Are they important or plaintiff attorney just includes them because they are free so might as well include them? Do fact witnesses make a big difference during product liability cases? I want to understand general situation.

Thank you

 

[Mass_Shyster]

One way to do it is to send my resume to every lawyer in the country and offer my fact witness services should they need my help.

Do you realize what you would pay for postage?