lighter and $25,000 plus damages

[dequeendistress]

What is the name of your state? AR

When is it an option to charge tenants within a duplex, with criminal neglect or other charges plus damages when their child, who was unsupervised starts a fire with a lighter resulting in total damage to the unit? Fire report states the cause of the fire was person or persons and the source being a lighter, fuel being oxygen.

Can the tenant be evicted, as well?

Fire's out, now what?

 

[You Are Guilty]

What is the name of your state? AR

When is it an option to charge tenants within a duplex, with criminal neglect or other charges plus damages when their child, who was unsupervised starts a fire with a lighter resulting in total damage to the unit? Fire report states the cause of the fire was person or persons and the source being a lighter, fuel being oxygen.

Can the tenant be evicted, as well?

Fire's out, now what?

Unless your name is "The State", it's never going to be an option to charge anyone criminally.

On the civil side, I suppose you have a number of causes of action, not the least of which are negligence, conversion, nuisance, maybe NIED if you were in the unit when it happened, etc.

And if it was a total damage, what is there to evict them from? Not to mention I would hope that the lease has a force majeure clause.


PS: I just noticed I've inadvertantly stolen your location. I will be changing it shortly

 

[dequeendistress]

I represent a govermental agency (Housing Authority) and the problem is the local yokels. First and foremost the children have been unsupervised from the time they moved in-almost resulting in eviction previously. This ESCALATED to the destruction of a unit and putting the neighboring residents in the duplex and the family in question in danger. The problem is that while the police investigator and the fire marshall were on scene they inquired if we (the housing authority) were pursuing charges. Although there was no loss of life, one child was injured, the potential was there.
Sometime between Thursday and Monday, something happened within the city departments, as when we picked up the fire report and the investigation report it did state that the family in question did start the fire by way of a child unsupervised playing with a lighter and igniting the bed which by the time the parents NOTICED it the complete bedroom was ablaze, this is with the smoke alarm going off as well. So to speak WE must prove to the state there is a cause to pursue this criminally as well as civilly. ((IT IS NOT the first time, I have had to bring the facts pertinent to a criminal charge to their attention when originally they (the prosecutor and the city) did not see there was a criminal charge.) )

I can not get any assistance from my field office as their lawyer stated it was CAUSE for criminal charges, but we have to pursue it locally. UGH! (actually it just depends on who you talk to up there, and what day it is, because their answers change when the wind blows)

So, are there any cases I can give to them for reference. I found a few [Most of them had loss of life], but was hoping someone here can set me straight.

The lease signed states the resident and those in their control (to sum it up) are not to destroy, deface damage or remove any part of the dwelling. Along with the other traditional verbage of a housing authority lease.

AS WELL as the lease states we will give them alternative accommodations where necessary repairs cannot be made within a reasonable time or abate rental in event repairs are not made. Abatement of rent will not be made if it is found that the resident or those under his/her control caused the damage. [well, they don't pay rent so it is not applicable anyway]

SO if there is not enough to charge them criminally because as the investigator put it "You cannot charge a child" [what about the parents???](whatever) CAN we impose eviction due to the fact the child allegedly started the fire and even then do we have to prove fault of negligence or is the fact the damage was done enough.

force majeure---I thought was when a contractor could not meet obligations due to unforseeable acts: such as fire, flood, war, Acts of God--I am not sure we can even use GOD in a lease as in "act of God" seperation of church and state, you know. (yes that is a wisecrack)

I am not completely stupid and know these persons will never be able to pay $25,000 and some change for the damage done, I am looking for the charge in the criminal arena as the lease states that criminal activity that endangers life, health or safety is a material violation and cause for eviction.

The insurance company sent an adjuster as they were under the impression, as I WAS that the incident would actually be investigated locally. Now the insurance company has found out differently and state that it would cost over $5,000.00 to investigate cause---the scene is corrupt now anyway as the police nor the fire dept taped it off--I did although, have maintenace fashion it so that entry could not be gained through the windows--what once was nor the front door---as well as to keep us from liability issues if anyone were to be hurt---You know if that happened who would be sued!


Sorry to ramble on.

 

[Greg 2]

I think I understand "where you are at".the 'ol 'rock-and-hard-spot.'
Ponder this-what will your bosses say/think/do, if you do nothing?
What will they say/think/do, if you do take action?

FWIW, I would give this careful cosideration, using all means at my disposal, [this BBS, the gov't attorney's, etc,] and turn the facts over to the HA lawyer. His/her job description includes bringing suit in a court of law, you's doesn't. Tell them to do their job, and you will do yours, and we both will go home tonight.

 

[dequeendistress]

Thanks for your responses. In the end you know who holds the ball---regardless.

It is also nice to know that the persons who were at fault are stating that there was an electrical problem and a gas leak which they are spreading caused the fire. Although the fire report is public information, how many persons do you think will go get it and see what IS written. I guess I do not even need to bring up slander or defamation. *sigh*

By the way ignorance is bliss.

 

[You Are Guilty]

Unless you are in a freak jurisdiction, a HA is still not authorized to bring criminal charges. You'd still need to speak to the local DA about it, who can then authorize the police dept. to perform whatever additional investigation is necessary.

I'm still not sure of your goal in all this. Clearly monetary damages aren't going to happen. How about you report Super-Mom to the local child protection authorities. They tend to look down on letting one's kids play with fire and burn one's house down. Maybe you'll get lucky and they'll taken them away and put them in foster care where they can be cared for properly.

Oh, and force majeure can apply to any contracts for tangible goods or services. Any "act of god" (natural disaster, even terrorism sometimes) would dissolve the contractual obligations.

 

[dequeendistress]

This IS a jerkwater town.

I KNOW we cannot actively pursue a CRIMINAL charge, although we can light a fire (so to speak) under their posteriors to get things done.

OK forget the criminal charges-are we in our legal bounds to initiate eviction proceedings in anyones opinion.

I HAVE CALLED the child hotline-this time and previous times--thank you for that input as well. The force majeure clause would apply if it was an act of a person here? Even though our lease affords them with alternative accomodations--it was not lightening that was the source of the fire-had it been this would have been easy.

SO-do we evict or no?