Medical issue

[escape2paradise]

IMHO, NO surgery that requires a child to be under general anesthesia should be undertaken without a second opinion, and If I were dad OR mom, I'd feel every right to demand it before proceeding..

Do you mean I should see a second specialist? Her pediatrician did recommend to have them removed and sent me to the specialist to see what he thought. He suggested the same, but again stated it was not of a necessity to survive. I am not taking it lightly, I just feel she has suffered enough and has missed a dozen days of school so far. I am not aware of any other remedy besides antibiotics which don't seem to help. We have her gargling with salt and water for pain and listerine to prevent germs. She still hurts. Also there can be other complications from strep left untreated, such as scarlet fever.

 

[escape2paradise]

I think that you are over-reacting to the situation. Simply notify him (don't ask his permission, just notify him) and if he has a problem with it let him say so. If he does say so, then ever so civilly give him the contact information for the child's doctors.

This is exactly what I want to do and am hoping the attorney agrees. His paralegal didn't seem to think it was sufficient, thus the reason I am stressed while I wait to hear back. I don't see how he can say I didn't follow the order if he doesn't protest after given the info.

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

From what you've said, TWO doctors have given the same opinion. I say just make the jingle and explain the situation and the recommendations.

Stated like, "DD has been having repetitive throat inspections. At this point, both the ped and specialist are recommending that her tonsils be removed. Becuase this is affecting her school work, I feel that it is in DD's best interest to have them removed AS RECOMMENDED by both doctors." Don't ask for permission ... just stick to the facts. An **I** message is less likely to be shot at. He will most likely just want to know when the surgery will be scheduled.

 

[escape2paradise]

From what you've said, TWO doctors have given the same opinion. I say just make the jingle and explain the situation and the recommendations.

Stated like, "DD has been having repetitive throat inspections. At this point, both the ped and specialist are recommending that her tonsils be removed. Becuase this is affecting her school work, I feel that it is in DD's best interest to have them removed AS RECOMMENDED by both doctors." Don't ask for permission ... just stick to the facts. An **I** message is less likely to be shot at. He will most likely just want to know when the surgery will be scheduled.

Thanks Ginny, I sent off a similar message for the attorney to look over and hopefully approve. I don't see why that wouldn't be enough. He can always flip out and deny it, but then I think that would just be him showing his a$$ again to the court. I think we all have seen enough of that.

Honestly, I don't think he cares one way or another. He never has before. Not that he doesn't care about DD, just that he has always left the worry and the work of parenting up to me. I know he is not interested in taking initiative in that direction, but wouldn't hesitate to if he thought he could cause me some grief, especially this time of year.

In the same notification I also set up for him to see her on Christmas. He still has no visitation, but DD still spends time with his family. I arranged for DD to go to his mom's on Christmas (like she has her whole life, with or without her dad) and told his mom I am okay with him being there if she will agree to supervise. I don't know if he will go since he of course doesn't like the whole supervision thing, but heck you would think he would want to see her on Christmas. We will see. I did not do it for him and I am sure he knows this, I did it for my DD.

 

[ncpdad]

I ask that you look at it from the NCP point of view... I don't know your ex, or your situation. I just know that from the NCP end, when parents are to make joint decisions, and the CP notifies instead of discusses, it is raw. Our CP once informed the NCP that the child had a birthday sleepover 2 days away, on a weekend child was with dad. She informed dad that she would drop child off and that dad could pick child up the following afternoon. She informed dad that she had already talked to the sponsor of the party and made all the arrangements. Since NCP was taking child to a play that evening, it was extremely insulting and controlling to inform the NCP that the child would not be there...

I know this has nothing to do with custodial time, but the feelings are still there. A better way to phrase the communication might be... child has been suffering from 5 infections. ped and ent have recommended that tonsils come out. If we act quickly, surgery could be scheduled for... Let me know your thoughts.

You still get your end - dad would have to be a complete you know what to say no, but you give him the option to be a you know what. You have an open case already - an emergent motion should be no problem - sometimes you can even get what you need through a letter to the judge and a proposed order, if dad does say no... but you have lived up to your end of the bargain and you have respected the fact that, like it or not, and his wanting it or not, dad has joint decision-making...

It's a slippery slope when each side starts deciding what the other wants or what they will do...

Good luck...

 

[Bloopy]

I ask that you look at it from the NCP point of view... I don't know your ex, or your situation. I just know that from the NCP end, when parents are to make joint decisions, and the CP notifies instead of discusses, it is raw. Our CP once informed the NCP that the child had a birthday sleepover 2 days away, on a weekend child was with dad. She informed dad that she would drop child off and that dad could pick child up the following afternoon. She informed dad that she had already talked to the sponsor of the party and made all the arrangements. Since NCP was taking child to a play that evening, it was extremely insulting and controlling to inform the NCP that the child would not be there...

I know this has nothing to do with custodial time, but the feelings are still there. A better way to phrase the communication might be... child has been suffering from 5 infections. ped and ent have recommended that tonsils come out. If we act quickly, surgery could be scheduled for... Let me know your thoughts.

You still get your end - dad would have to be a complete you know what to say no, but you give him the option to be a you know what. You have an open case already - an emergent motion should be no problem - sometimes you can even get what you need through a letter to the judge and a proposed order, if dad does say no... but you have lived up to your end of the bargain and you have respected the fact that, like it or not, and his wanting it or not, dad has joint decision-making...

It's a slippery slope when each side starts deciding what the other wants or what they will do...

Good luck...

I’m surprised no one responded yet. Just wanted to say I agree with you about CPs micromanaging NCP time and ignoring him/her in decision making.

This case is tricky, and the stakes are high... but I guess everyone thinks their situation is complicated. (Not a slam to escape2paradise but a defense of our responses to her)

 

[profmum]

Inform Dad for sure, do not give him a chance to throw something back at you If Dad kicks up a fuss,and the surgery is needed sooner than later, you can possibly schedule a call with the judge to get a quick ruling... saves $$

 

[escape2paradise]

I ask that you look at it from the NCP point of view... I don't know your ex, or your situation. I just know that from the NCP end, when parents are to make joint decisions, and the CP notifies instead of discusses, it is raw. Our CP once informed the NCP that the child had a birthday sleepover 2 days away, on a weekend child was with dad. She informed dad that she would drop child off and that dad could pick child up the following afternoon. She informed dad that she had already talked to the sponsor of the party and made all the arrangements. Since NCP was taking child to a play that evening, it was extremely insulting and controlling to inform the NCP that the child would not be there...

I know this has nothing to do with custodial time, but the feelings are still there. A better way to phrase the communication might be... child has been suffering from 5 infections. ped and ent have recommended that tonsils come out. If we act quickly, surgery could be scheduled for... Let me know your thoughts.

You still get your end - dad would have to be a complete you know what to say no, but you give him the option to be a you know what. You have an open case already - an emergent motion should be no problem - sometimes you can even get what you need through a letter to the judge and a proposed order, if dad does say no... but you have lived up to your end of the bargain and you have respected the fact that, like it or not, and his wanting it or not, dad has joint decision-making...

It's a slippery slope when each side starts deciding what the other wants or what they will do...

Good luck...

I see your point and in most circumstances I would agree. However, legally he isn't even really "dad" yet. We were not married and we never went to court to establish paternity, support or visitation. In 13+ yrs. he has never taken an interest in any parenting responsibilities. I tried to get him more involved in the beginning, but he was more into partying and left me handling everything. Dad was/is a drug addict in and out of treatment 4 x's that I know of. He has never met one of her teachers, never attended a Dr. appt., I bet he doesn't even know her doctors name and she has seen the same pediatrician for almost 10 yrs. I have never withheld any of this from him. I always invited him to all her sports and school functions etc...

A few years ago he found a sugar mama willing to support him as he hasn't worked in 7+ yrs. Then one day he decided it was his turn to be the parent. Of course this decision came after I found out his lady had signed an affadavit claiming to be DD's legal guardian. She did this so she could collect an insurance settlement on DD's behalf. It pissed her off that I caught her red handed. It really pissed her off that I told X's family. Up to this point she and I had been friends, X and her spent more than one night in my home. The whole insurance scam put me on her **** list and she began the "you need to establish your parental rights" campaign with X.

Afterward he began plotting his surprise attack. He started paying all kinds of attention to DD last year and I thought it was great. I was letting him take her almost every weekend. DD was eating it up, finally the dad she always wished he would be after so many disappointments. I thought he had finally grown up a little and was genuinely interested in getting to know DD on a deeper level. Little did I know, he was working on DD to hate me and paving the way to gain custody. He filed a paternity/custody action against me in 1/07. He did his best to alienate my DD from me and my entire family. He has made false abuse allegations left and right, calling CPS on me etc....Told DD numerous lies about me. He had DD run away two times and there is proof of the involvement the second go around.

He is not complying in any way shape or form with the temporary order we have. Not paying CS, not paying his half of DD counseling, won't release any info to the GAL, won't participate in counseling. The judge, the GAL and his own family have the whole situation pegged. His attorney dumped him and I know it wasn't for lack of money as his lady takes good care of him. His attorney couldn't stop him from ruining his own case.

He has been abusing DD to prove his lady's point. Everybody knows it, he has been called on it and do you think he has stopped. Nope! He continues to dig the hole deeper and meanwhile DD is suffering the most. Now X has no visitation. He won't comply with drug testing per the court and continues to "use the abusive use of conflict that is psycholigically damaging to the child" as declared by the GAL and the court. He is a habitual liar and really has made my case for me. It did take a little time for things to come out, meanwhile my family was put through a living hell and $20K later still haven't been to trial.

DD has been in counseling for 9 mos. now. She has finally figured out that Dad has not changed that he still lies and disappoints. Things at home with DD are finally back to normal.

I don't morally feel I owe dad squat. I will do what I have to legally and that is all. Actually I suppose that is not entirely correct. I will do what is in my DD best interest and if that happens to benefit X then so be it. For example, the arranging for him to see her on Christmas at his families. His family sees DD all the time, she is going with them tomorrow night to stay in the city like she does every year at Christmas time.

Anyway, after my long winded reasoning. I did finally get to talk with my attorney. He said all I needed to do was inform and make sure the Dr's info was included. I don't think X will raise a stink, but who know' s, I have been wrong before. If he contacts the Dr. I'll be in virtual shock!

 

[ncpdad]

I see your point and in most circumstances I would agree. However, legally he isn't even really "dad" yet. We were not married and we never went to court to establish paternity, support or visitation.

You stated that you have an temporary agreed order that gives him Joint Decision-Making. You quoted it yourself... I'm not a lawyer, but it seems that legally, a court has deemed that he should have decision making. And frankly, I think that the only way that this case could have proceeded with him suing for custody is if the state considered him not a legal stranger - the guy down the street filing a motion for custody wouldn't be able to get a hearing date, because he wouldn't be a party to the matter. Regardless of whether the dad has a final order, there is a temp order that says you two gotta play nice and make these decisions together.

He is not complying in any way shape or form with the temporary order we have. Not paying CS, not paying his half of DD counseling, won't release any info to the GAL, won't participate in counseling. The judge, the GAL and his own family have the whole situation pegged. His attorney dumped him and I know it wasn't for lack of money as his lady takes good care of him. His attorney couldn't stop him from ruining his own case.

It doesn't matter what he does or does not do - it only matters what YOU do. There is a temporary order. You should bring him for contempt for not paying CS, counseling, etc... He has every right to be included in the decision making. It sucks for you, sure, but there it goes. There are no extrenuating circumstances here. My husband's ex withholds court ordered visitation all the time - it doesn't mean he gets to withhold child support until he sees their daughter, does it?

I don't morally feel I owe dad squat. I will do what I have to legally and that is all. Actually I suppose that is not entirely correct. I will do what is in my DD best interest and if that happens to benefit X then so be it. For example, the arranging for him to see her on Christmas at his families. His family sees DD all the time, she is going with them tomorrow night to stay in the city like she does every year at Christmas time.

Anyway, after my long winded reasoning. I did finally get to talk with my attorney. He said all I needed to do was inform and make sure the Dr's info was included. I don't think X will raise a stink, but who know' s, I have been wrong before. If he contacts the Dr. I'll be in virtual shock!

Clearly, I am not a lawyer, but I still believe your lawyer is wrong... you'll probably get away with it, but the order is clear that you have to make the decisions together. Yes, I know that your daughter feels yucky and you want this to end for her, but everyone feels that way about their custody situations as a whole, and unfortunately, once you put yourself under the authority of the court, you actually are bound to do what the court tells you to do... Joint Decision Making does not mean that you make the decision and he agrees.


Good luck.

 

[escape2paradise]

You stated that you have an temporary agreed order that gives him Joint Decision-Making. You quoted it yourself... I'm not a lawyer, but it seems that legally, a court has deemed that he should have decision making. And frankly, I think that the only way that this case could have proceeded with him suing for custody is if the state considered him not a legal stranger - the guy down the street filing a motion for custody wouldn't be able to get a hearing date, because he wouldn't be a party to the matter. Regardless of whether the dad has a final order, there is a temp order that says you two gotta play nice and make these decisions together.



It doesn't matter what he does or does not do - it only matters what YOU do. There is a temporary order. You should bring him for contempt for not paying CS, counseling, etc... He has every right to be included in the decision making. It sucks for you, sure, but there it goes. There are no extrenuating circumstances here. My husband's ex withholds court ordered visitation all the time - it doesn't mean he gets to withhold child support until he sees their daughter, does it?



Clearly, I am not a lawyer, but I still believe your lawyer is wrong... you'll probably get away with it, but the order is clear that you have to make the decisions together. Yes, I know that your daughter feels yucky and you want this to end for her, but everyone feels that way about their custody situations as a whole, and unfortunately, once you put yourself under the authority of the court, you actually are bound to do what the court tells you to do... Joint Decision Making does not mean that you make the decision and he agrees.


Good luck.

Yeah! legally his is still a stranger. I WA you don't have to be legally the dad before a court will grant temp visitation etc...The paternity action is actually part of the custody action and won't be decided and finalized until we go to trial in March. I thought it odd to not get that part out of the way, but what do I know.

Thanks, but I think I will take my lawyers advice! From a legal standpoint I will be covered. As I said, my telling him gives him the oppurtunity to disagree if he chooses. No a court didn't decide, my attorney wrote it in so as to cover X getting treatment for DD while in his care or so he says. Again, as long as I am covered legally that is all that matters to me. If dad were truly interested in DD's care maybe he would have attended one of her many appts. in the last 3 mos. or even asked me about one of them.

I realize your hubby gets screwed by his X, but really that shouldn't jade you for everybody else's situation. This is not a father's rights board it is a legal advice board.

If the court doesn't like the way I handled it then I am sure I will hear it. I, like my attorney, don't think contempt will be an issue. X still has time and oppurtunity to voice his opposition if he likes.

 

[escape2paradise]

Update

DD had tonsillectomy 3 days ago. She is still miserable! X didn't show for the pre-op or the surgery. He did text me during the surgery for updates and I did kindly respond. He didn't have one question about DD's condition, didn't contact the Dr. NOTHING! Just like he has all her life.

He was more concerned with trying to get me to agree to allow DD to stay for 2 days for her Christmas visit rather than just the afternoon. He just doesn't get it. DD isn't even likely to be much fun for the afternoon much less two days when she is recovering.

 

[Bloopy]

DD had tonsillectomy 3 days ago. She is still miserable! X didn't show for the pre-op or the surgery. He did text me during the surgery for updates and I did kindly respond. He didn't have one question about DD's condition, didn't contact the Dr. NOTHING! Just like he has all her life.

He was more concerned with trying to get me to agree to allow DD to stay for 2 days for her Christmas visit rather than just the afternoon. He just doesn't get it. DD isn't even likely to be much fun for the afternoon much less two days when she is recovering.

I’m glad this worked out with high drama.

I don’t see Dad’s not asking questions as not caring, I see it as passively differing to your wisdom.

Maybe playing nurse to her is exactly what Dad needs in the relationship. He’s never felt needed and it’s a good time for him to be a parent.

You “won” what could have been a major battle. Explain to Dad how she’s doing in recovery and what her needs would be. Give him at least a day if he wants it.

 

[escape2paradise]

I’m glad this worked out with high drama.

It worked out with ZERO drama thank you very much!

I don’t see Dad’s not asking questions as not caring, I see it as passively differing to your wisdom.

Where did I say that dad didn't care? I know X loves DD to pieces, he still does not want the responsibilities that come with being a parent. He has always left that all up to me and evidently still is.

Maybe playing nurse to her is exactly what Dad needs in the relationship. He’s never felt needed and it’s a good time for him to be a parent.

You “won” what could have been a major battle. Explain to Dad how she’s doing in recovery and what her needs would be. Give him at least a day if he wants it.

Never felt needed, he never wanted to be needed. Dad has always refused visits with DD when she is sick, he doesn't want to get sick himself. Isn't that nice, I guess it's okay for me to get sick.

If you would have read my other posts you would see that dad doesn't have any visitation right now PERIOD. I am allowing Dad a supervised visit at his mom's, because I wanted DD to be able to see her Dad and his extended family for Christmas. There will be many many people there and she will not be able to get any rest in the chaos. Besides, I do not want an overnight even if she weren't recovering. I don't want X to get her alone so he can talk the talk to her and manipulate and force her to do things she doesn't want to do and shouldn't do. I can't expect her Grandma to follow them around the whole time and make sure he isn't working on her again. She will have many other guests to tend to. Not only that, but Grandma has to work the next day. Not to mention I am sure dad will be pretty busy partying and not much up to taking care of a sick kid. Just going by past experience and the fact that he still can't take and pass the hair follicle test required by the court.

 

[LdiJ]

It worked out with ZERO drama thank you very much!



Where did I say that dad didn't care? I know X loves DD to pieces, he still does not want the responsibilities that come with being a parent. He has always left that all up to me and evidently still is.



Never felt needed, he never wanted to be needed. Dad has always refused visits with DD when she is sick, he doesn't want to get sick himself. Isn't that nice, I guess it's okay for me to get sick.

If you would have read my other posts you would see that dad doesn't have any visitation right now PERIOD. I am allowing Dad a supervised visit at his mom's, because I wanted DD to be able to see her Dad and his extended family for Christmas. There will be many many people there and she will not be able to get any rest in the chaos. Besides, I do not want an overnight even if she weren't recovering. I don't want X to get her alone so he can talk the talk to her and manipulate and force her to do things she doesn't want to do and shouldn't do. I can't expect her Grandma to follow them around the whole time and make sure he isn't working on her again. She will have many other guests to tend to. Not only that, but Grandma has to work the next day. Not to mention I am sure dad will be pretty busy partying and not much up to taking care of a sick kid. Just going by past experience and the fact that he still can't take and pass the hair follicle test required by the court.

You are being generous to allow the visit under the circumstances....since the court determined that he was not to have visitation at this time. Overnight obviously wouldn't be appropriate if Grandma has to work the next day.

 

[Isis1]

uh....don't get all hissy fit on me....but at some point, your daughter will figure out all this on her own. and it really matters what she thinks of the situations when she is 18 and living her own life. you won't be able to control what she thinks and what people tell her. just follow the order. stop trying to be the "good" parent in order to outshine the other parent. it never works, you will only exhaust yourself. you cannot shield her from all the "bad people".

let it go!! either you allow her to have her visitation with her dad on his visitation terms (without a court order), then let him have her. you had years of parenting experince with your daughter, he hasn't. let him figure it out.

i have ten years of parenting on my belt. my husband is on his first year. i have stopped the mind frame of trying to make him do it my way. he's got to learn on his own. doesn't matter that we are together, or if we part ways. everyone has their own learning speed. it's still the same issue in your case. when he comes and gets his daughter, sit down, open a bottle of wine....and relax. your daughter will live through this. and so will you.