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mistywauls Your thread is locked

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rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
What is the name of your state? California
mistywauls
Your thread is locked
Please respond to the questions starting here https://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?p=1197056
Please ignore ANNA they are not quoting current CA law
This link is for the Sacramento Superior court site, much if this will be the same no matter your county
http://www.saccourt.com/family/unmarried/upa.asp
and here are the links re parental child abduction including the current laws of California.
http://findthekids.org/abdbystate.html

Has paternity been established?
What other orders have been established?
What county?
Have you or mom reported baby abducted?
Removal of a 3 mo old infant from custodial parent is emmenant danger to the child and should be reported to police, please update when you have called police.
 


brisgirl825

Senior Member
MissouriGal said:
Rmet, you do know who ANNA is, right? And you're telling him he doesn't know current CA law? ;)

I was thinking the same thing but I wasn't sure since what was said didn't make sense. We have advised on other CA threads that dad needs to get a DNA test and COs first.

Seems odd that he would have quoted something from 1959 though.
 
See everyone's assuming who it is. While I do believe some of the listings might have belonged to the person back when it all went down, I think a lot of the latest stuff is from copy cat, $hit disturber.

Maybe I'm just naive, but I thought the original person was too well educated to be doing half the stuff that's gone on. Frankly it's all become so annoying. I mean, come on, you can't even type the word p r i m a r y!!!!!!
 
T

Too Cerebral

Guest
rmet4nzkx said:
What is the name of your state? California
mistywauls
Your thread is locked
Please respond to the questions starting here https://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?p=1197056
Please ignore ANNA they are not quoting current CA law
This link is for the Sacramento Superior court site, much if this will be the same no matter your county
http://www.saccourt.com/family/unmarried/upa.asp
and here are the links re parental child abduction including the current laws of California.
http://findthekids.org/abdbystate.html

Has paternity been established?
What other orders have been established?
What county?
Have you or mom reported baby abducted?
Removal of a 3 mo old infant from custodial parent is emmenant danger to the child and should be reported to police, please update when you have called police.


You, sincerely, are an idiot.

Your OWN REFERENCE states what "Anna" has been saying, i.e.:

"The parent with whom the child is living does not automatically have custody rights by merely starting a case. Preparing and filing the forms is only the beginning of the process to obtain court orders. Parentage must be confirmed by one or both parents or be determined by testing. Then, custody, visitation and support issues can be addressed."

Additionally, the UCCJEA doesn't come into play UNTIL there are court orders in place, AND THEN the child is abducted.

Instead of showing us meaningless LINKS, why don't you copy and paste those citations that you THINK are appropriate to the original "abduction" question? Hmmm? How about it.

And yes, this is IAAL, as was Anna Falactic. You know, some smart people can tell who I am just by my style of writing. Apparently, you're not too bright.
 
T

Too Cerebral

Guest
brisgirl825 said:
I was thinking the same thing but I wasn't sure since what was said didn't make sense. We have advised on other CA threads that dad needs to get a DNA test and COs first.

Seems odd that he would have quoted something from 1959 though.


Why is it odd? It's still good law in California! Case law doesn't "age" or become non-controlling all because it was decided in 1959.
 

rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
MissouriGal said:
Rmet, you do know who ANNA is, right? And you're telling him he doesn't know current CA law? ;)
The case he cited was from 1958 predating :
Parental Kidnapping Prevention Act, UCCJA/UCCJEA, UNIFORM PARENTAGE ACT, etc. If it was Encino Man, ;) He would have spelled Anna's last name with a "P" That or he is just doing it for attention since his other tactics have failed. None the less, even if paternity and custody are established, reporting abduction of a 3 mo old infant is justified. Grandma can also file DV r/o against the 19 yo adult for actions taken against her minor daughter and grandchild.
 

brisgirl825

Senior Member
Too Cerebral said:
Why is it odd? It's still good law in California! Case law doesn't "age" or become non-controlling all because it was decided in 1959.

I wasn't trying to suggest that case law, statutes from 1959 are "non-controlling".

It has always been the advice of Sr. Members that dad must be found to be the father in order to have any rights to the children they sire, in unmarried situations.

I don't understand how any man can take the child of a woman with whom he had relations, simply based on that fact. Having sex, does not necessarily make the guy the father. Until he is found to be the father of the child, the case law/statutes you quoted, doesn't apply here, unless dad signed an AOP.

What you quoted earlier did say "a parent is entitled to custody". He is not a parent yet.

I am sincerely trying to learn.
 

rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
Too Cerebral said:
You, sincerely, are an idiot. {/Quote] Really? Well, I guess it takes one to know one ;)

Your OWN REFERENCE states what "Anna" has been saying, i.e.:
"The parent with whom the child is living does not automatically have custody rights by merely starting a case. Preparing and filing the forms is only the beginning of the process to obtain court orders. Parentage must be confirmed by one or both parents or be determined by testing. Then, custody, visitation and support issues can be addressed."
Please cite exactly what reference you quote? That is not what ANNA has been saying nor is it what I very carefully stated on Misty's thread before it was locked due to your disruption.

ANNA FALACTIC
Originally Posted by rmet4nzkx
As her parent, you are responsible for your daughter until she is 18 or emancipated. Having a child does not emancipate her. She, as an unmarried mother, is in turn responsible for her child and has sole custody of the child unless and until there is a custody determination made by the family law division of the California Superior Court. This is different than paternity which may be established by acknowledgement of paternity usually filled out at the hospital, these are two separate processes.
You need to answer some questions in order to advise you as to what your daughter can do.
Did the parents sign an acknowledgement of paternity or is his name on the Birth Certificate?
If you answer YES to either or both of these questions and the parents have not been to court to determine custody/childsupport/visitation, or there is no AOP on file and no court orders at all, then mom needs to make a police report to report the child abducted by the putative father/father but there are no other orders, also contact the DA office and ask for the child abduction unit, have daughter contact the Family Law Facilitator office or go down to the court house and immediatly file to establish paternity etc and fee waivers if needed, she may also contact legal aid for assiatance.
If there is domestic violence which may include threats or child abduction, a DV restraining order may also be issued and can be filed when at the FLF office. Please look up your county Superior court website.


Please show me the law concerning - -

"She, as an unmarried mother, is in turn responsible for her child and has sole custody of the child unless and until there is a custody determination made by the family law division of the California Superior Court."
I didn't get the opportunity to cite the appropriate California Family law code because the thread was closed.

Apparently, you didn't read. This is the law in California - -

"A parent entitled to custody (i.e., not divested of physical custody rights by court order) cannot commit the crime of kidnapping by taking exclusive possession of his or her own child". [Wilborn v. Super.Ct. (1959) 51 Cal.2d 828, 830, 337 P.2d 65, 66]
No, that is not the current caselaw and you know it.

ANNA FALACTIC

brisgirl825 said:
So you are saying that in CA, a man can take a woman's child b/c he had sex with her?

No, I'm saying, and the law is saying, that a PARENT can take their own child, man or woman. California does not have a law that says that a woman is the "default" custodian of a child. That little fact is up to a court of law.
In this case we don't know if this child has a father, we do know this child has a mother and since the parents are unmarried mom had custody until the court enters a custody order, additionally there is the issue of DV.
CA CODES
FAMILY.CODE
SEC 3020-3032
&
SECTION 3040-3048
3040. (a) Custody should be granted in the following order of
preference according to the best interest of the child as provided in
Sections 3011 and 3020:
(1) To both parents jointly pursuant to Chapter 4 (commencing with
Section 3080) or to either parent. In making an order granting
custody to either parent, the court shall consider, among other
factors, which parent is more likely to allow the child frequent and
continuing contact with the noncustodial parent, consistent with
Section 3011 and 3020, and shall not prefer a parent as custodian
because of that parent's sex. The court, in its discretion, may
require the parents to submit to the court a plan for the
implementation of the custody order.
(2) If to neither parent, to the person or persons in whose home
the child has been living in a wholesome and stable environment.
(3) To any other person or persons deemed by the court to be
suitable and able to provide adequate and proper care and guidance
for the child.
(b) This section establishes neither a preference nor a
presumption for or against joint legal custody, joint physical
custody, or sole custody, but allows the court and the family the
widest discretion to choose a parenting plan that is in the best
interest of the child......

SECTION 3080-3089

SECTION 7570-7577 does not automatically convey custody to the "father" by the establishment of paternity, it sets a stage for custody and other orders.

7573. Except as provided in Sections 7575, 7576, and 7577, a
completed voluntary declaration of paternity, as described in Section
7574, that has been filed with the Department of Child Support
Services shall establish the paternity of a child and shall have the
same force and effect as a judgment for paternity issued by a court
of competent jurisdiction. The voluntary declaration of paternity
shall be recognized as a basis for the establishment of an order for
child custody, visitation, or child support.

and since mom is still a minor:
7577. (a) Notwithstanding Section 7573, a voluntary declaration of
paternity that is signed by a minor parent or minor parents shall not
establish paternity until 60 days after both parents have reached
the age of 18 years or are emancipated, whichever first occurs.
(b) A parent who signs a voluntary declaration of paternity when
he or she is a minor may rescind the voluntary declaration of
paternity at any time up to 60 days after the parent reaches the age
of 18 or becomes emancipated whichever first occurs.
< >

He has not been determined to be the parent by DNA. So unless he signed an AOP, he has no standing to just take the child as he is NOT a parent, yet.

Boloney. A parent has "standing" and should he be "hauled into court" and a DNA test proves parentage, he'll be released to continue custody of the child. But, the "mother" needs to get the ball rolling.
Ok this is BALONEY The court is not going to give a child back to an adult male who had sex with a minor, resulting in a child, who after threats of and/or domestic violence to abduct the child, followed by abduction and child endangerment, without a valid custody order.
mistywauls
What if the babies father has been abusive to the mother before. He has no job no stable place to live. And feels he dont have to tell us where the baby is going and when she is coming home.


Additionally, the UCCJEA doesn't come into play UNTIL there are court orders in place, AND THEN the child is abducted. [/Quote] WRONG
If there are no custody orders, it is abduction.
Instead of showing us meaningless LINKS, why don't you copy and paste those citations that you THINK are appropriate to the original "abduction" question? Hmmm? How about it.
There wasn't time, thanks to your interference.

And yes, this is IAAL, as was Anna Falactic. You know, some smart people can tell who I am just by my style of writing. Apparently, you're not too bright.
WOW!
I know who your are and you are not IAAL, you have blown your cover
 
rmet4nzkx said:
I know who your are and you are not IAAL, you have blown your cover

Thank you rmet for your post. Although it was a little hard to follow with all the quotes and quotes within quotes ( :D ), I think I understand better.

P.S. Does that mean my theory was, in fact, correct?!?!?
 

rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
SingleMom67 said:
Thank you rmet for your post. Although it was a little hard to follow with all the quotes and quotes within quotes ( :D ), I think I understand better.

P.S. Does that mean my theory was, in fact, correct?!?!?
Copycat, Yes
 

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