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[mommyto 2]

LOL - I really ment that in the clinical way.

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

your ex mentally ill?

He's been on Oxycontin for YEARS ... and numerous other pain relievers of the VERY strong kind. Best description is very passive agressive and manipulative. IMO, narcisstic personality and truly believes his delusions. And I think the Diet Cokes pickled his brain too (He can drink between 10-12 bottles per day.)

I will NOT drink soda pop at all, and rarely will allow my daughter too. It's pure chemicals.

 

[mommyto 2]

So Ginny, in a nutshell your ex is a mentally ill drug and caffeine addict. Nothing like the highs and lows of oxycontin with diet coke chasers. Now that's fun stuff there!! I just read your last posting. Kinda of got an overview of what you are dealing with. Call it strange but I find comfort knowing I am not the only one dealing with this craziness. But at least mine hasn't stolen the kids, yet! Although he does like to keep them well informed over my inability to parent and all of the legal stuff he has to pay for because of me.

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

Probably the best I found here on the forum is that I am NOT alone in dealing with an impossible X. I do realize that there are things that I can change to make myself less crazy and upset over his antics. I study the answers of others to see what I could possibly be used in my own battles. I'm learning to forgive. I don't reply immediately to emails but allow a 24-hour period to be able to think an answer clearly. I've learned to pick my battles carefully.

 

[tuffbrk]

He's been on Oxycontin for YEARS ... and numerous other pain relievers of the VERY strong kind. Best description is very passive agressive and manipulative. IMO, narcisstic personality and truly believes his delusions. And I think the Diet Cokes pickled his brain too (He can drink between 10-12 bottles per day.)

I will NOT drink soda pop at all, and rarely will allow my daughter too. It's pure chemicals.

GinnyJ - oh yeah - look out for that aspartame or whatever the chemical name is in the fake sugar sweeteners...there is increasing publicity with regard to it and once again the request for further testing was squashed - a coupla of senators/representatives must have some nice donations to their coffers!!

passive/aggressive, narcisstic and delusional - sounds like my STBX - just add in the ability to lie like a rug and if he is able to keep track of one of them? Well, then he actually starts to believe himself! I think it's anti-social personality disorder....very friendly, likeable people - make great salespeople!! Just can't conform to the norms of society!! Typically, thieves...

LOL!! I still have to remind myself that most of what he says is bull...someone wrote in one of the posts that there's no point in arguing with someone who will not accept the truth and prefers to believe their lies (maybe it was CJane, not sure) and it really struck home...that's what I'm keeping in mind anyway! I bet you do as well!

Keep your sense of humor...

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

someone wrote in one of the posts that there's no point in arguing with someone who will not accept the truth and prefers to believe their lies

I know I've written that a few times.

Once the OP learns that there is no 'winning' with someone like our X's, then you can just let it go. Allow them to go to court and look like idiots and maybe the courts will help.

 

[mommyto 2]

Ginny your right, and I am trying. I don't respond to most emails unless it deals with education or medical or scheduling issues. I have started the 24 hour rule, that helps a lot. I guess why I get so concerned is first the fear of him getting the children more and the absolute out of control expense of having to fight him in court all the time. Also I am a bit afraid of what he may do to the kids and/or me.

 

[TCool]

I don't think a court could possibly order someone to take specific medication... especially for something like bi-polar.

Well, what I'm suggesting is that a court order him to be evaluated by a psychologist/psychiatrist. Although, why couldn't a court order someone to take specific medication for something like bipolar when it comes to an issue of parenting? (Not questioning your knowledge here, just sincerely curioius) I'm especially curious why you would say "especially for something like bipolar". Is it thought of as not a serious illness in the realm of law? Bipolar can be extremely dangerous to a person and people around him/her if its not untreated. In manic phases it can become very similar to schizophrenia in that the person can become truly delusional and completely lose touch with reality.

That the manic phase of his illness makes it impossible to reason with him and no matter what I do I am wrong and he is right.

If you try to make a judge see that you might want to add in that extreme mania is dangrous for the children. Although it seems that this really doesn't matter as long as he has never hurt the children before. But the thing about bipolar is that in extreme mania he wouldn't want to hurt the children, but it could happen because of really bad decisions that often occur during mania. Him taking you to court all the time seems to be a good example of behavior during mania to me. He truly believes that he's right, he believes he can't lose, so he takes you to court even though he doesn't have a case.

Allow them to go to court and look like idiots and maybe the courts will help.

That worked around where I live once. Some really horrible mother (in my opinion anyway) kept taking her ex to court with allegations of abuse and the judge eventually got sick of it and awarded full custody to the father with supervised visitation for the mother. The judge apparently knew she was lying and was just sick of it. It's my judge too, so makes me feel better if the mother of my child ever decides to be like that.

 

[CJane]

Well, what I'm suggesting is that a court order him to be evaluated by a psychologist/psychiatrist. Although, why couldn't a court order someone to take specific medication for something like bipolar when it comes to an issue of parenting?

It's a little tricky because you're dealing with Constitutional rights...

It's not like requiring someone with a seizure disorder not to drive until it's controlled. You don't have a Constitutional right to drive. You DO have a Constitutional right to be a parent - even a bad one.

Bipolar can be extremely dangerous to a person and people around him/her if its not untreated. In manic phases it can become very similar to schizophrenia in that the person can become truly delusional and completely lose touch with reality.

I agree that it can be extremely dangerous. But you don't have to prove that it MIGHT be... you have to prove that THAT person is a danger to THOSE KIDS ALL THE TIME. It's an enormous burden of proof.

And even if the court did order meds... how do you monitor? Where's the privacy of the medical information?

It's too unweildy.

 

[TCool]

It's a little tricky because you're dealing with Constitutional rights...

It's not like requiring someone with a seizure disorder not to drive until it's controlled. You don't have a Constitutional right to drive. You DO have a Constitutional right to be a parent - even a bad one.

Makes sense. However, I don't think its really about being a good parent or bad parent. I would think it'd be about a person being in the right state of mind and being fit to be a parent. Seems like bipolar doesn't really fit the category of a mental illness that the courts would see as a danger. Would the courts allow parenting time to a schizophrenic who is not on meds?

But you don't have to prove that it MIGHT be... you have to prove that THAT person is a danger to THOSE KIDS ALL THE TIME. It's an enormous burden of proof.

Does it really have to be all the time? Someone couldn't convince a court that a mental illness in certain phases is dangerous and in certain phases isn't?

And even if the court did order meds... how do you monitor? Where's the privacy of the medical information?

Couldn't it work kinda like the way it works for druggies? Don't they order people who are constantly caught with drugs or believed to do lots of drugs (britney spears) to get drug tests? Couldn't they have evaluations for a mentally ill person? It's not like there would need to be an abundance of medical information given, more like a yes they are stable or no they are not.

I personally think the courts need to take these kind of things into account a little more often. Too bad my opinion means nothing. However, once I rule the world that will change!

Anyway, thanks for answering my questions. I appreciate the info.

 

[wileybunch]

Makes sense. However, I don't think its really about being a good parent or bad parent. I would think it'd be about a person being in the right state of mind and being fit to be a parent. Seems like bipolar doesn't really fit the category of a mental illness that the courts would see as a danger. Would the courts allow parenting time to a schizophrenic who is not on meds?

Many people have to co parent with asses, with or without a diagnosed mental illness or not. Dad could be in a bad mood every time he has dealings with Mom or even be in a bad mood w/the kids, but being in a bad mood doesn't disquality someone from being a parent. Or always thinking one is right like OP mentioned. IF that were the case, even MORE people would be disqualified from being a parent. It's frustrating and a PIA, but I think it's false hope to suggest what OP wrote her ex does rises to enough to limit his parenting time (but then maybe I missed a detail somewhere).

 

[TCool]

Many people have to co parent with asses, with or without a diagnosed mental illness or not. Dad could be in a bad mood every time he has dealings with Mom or even be in a bad mood w/the kids, but being in a bad mood doesn't disquality someone from being a parent. Or always thinking one is right like OP mentioned. IF that were the case, even MORE people would be disqualified from being a parent. It's frustrating and a PIA, but I think it's false hope to suggest what OP wrote her ex does rises to enough to limit his parenting time (but then maybe I missed a detail somewhere).

I don't think you understood what I was saying (probably my bad ). I agree with everything you are saying, and I don't think being an "ass" should disqualify anyone from being a parent. That would suck, I'm kind of an ass myself.

Anyway, I was talking about diagnosed mental illnesses. Not just in the sense that the illness can make it harder to cooperate with them, but in the sense that certain illnesses can cause a person to be unfit to be a parent. I know that this is more of a matter of opinion, but does anyone here really think that a person who has lost touch with reality (clinically) is fit to be a parent? Or, someone who can at times lose touch with reality (such as someone who suffers from bipolar affective disorder)?

BTW, I'm not suggesting the OP do anything. I don't know enough about law to do that, just throwing something out there and getting some interesting information about it.

 

[onebreath]

It is soo refreshing to know I am not alone. It is so difficult to deal with an ex like this, and parts of your posts sound like my story, the lies, the lying to himself, manipulating every issue out the kazoo, the over the board emails and contact (judges just don't see this stuff).

One thing that helped in my case, years back and it definitly held some sacrifices too, was a pyschological evaluation. Even with this, I seriously don't know if it shows up these kinds of difficulties, more specifically if its able to diagnose bipolar. However that is one route you may want to look into. The only problem is custody evaluators, even the best ones - at least in my area - don't DO much with their diagnosis of a person. I can only hope that with such a known disease, there would be recommendations to see a pyschiatrist, and then that person can prescribe needed medication (which I have heard works very well), and then you have a legal record and a diagnosis of what you are dealing with. If a treatment plan not recommeded by the evaluator, if you can get you two into coparent counseling (next court round, I know that one, you can be prepared to request short term coparent counseling) JUST to get the counselor to get the evaluators recommendation, and then THEY will request the medication, counseling etc for ex...and that person will have to speak up the next time you two go to court about whats going on, ex's mental illness, whether or not he has been cooperative.

Sorry to go on so long, it just seems at least you have a shot at prooving the dad has mental illeness and the reality of that behavior on the kids, much less any attempts at coparenting. In my case, my ex is so borderline, outside of being diagnosed as paranoid the tests or the evaluator didn't get his total weirdness, and he is a bit off...so I am left coparenting, or trying to, in an impossible situation. Just more food for thought.

 

[mommyto 2]

TCool you have very accurately described the issues surrounding mental illness and parenting. In the case with my ex he has been diagnosed for over 12 years. He has been in and out of hospitals and through a number of mental health professionals. I do not ever confuse mental illness with being an ass. Two different problems, everyone can be an ass. Now an ass with mental illness - now there is trouble. The problem with people with mental illness is more serious than people can possibly imagine.
I appreciate your input, there are several points you made that I will be speaking to my attorney about.

 

[wileybunch]

I don't think you understood what I was saying (probably my bad ). I agree with everything you are saying, and I don't think being an "ass" should disqualify anyone from being a parent. That would suck, I'm kind of an ass myself.

Anyway, I was talking about diagnosed mental illnesses. Not just in the sense that the illness can make it harder to cooperate with them, but in the sense that certain illnesses can cause a person to be unfit to be a parent. I know that this is more of a matter of opinion, but does anyone here really think that a person who has lost touch with reality (clinically) is fit to be a parent? Or, someone who can at times lose touch with reality (such as someone who suffers from bipolar affective disorder)?

BTW, I'm not suggesting the OP do anything. I don't know enough about law to do that, just throwing something out there and getting some interesting information about it.

I purposely used the word "ass" because lots of people are asses, with or without a diagnosis. Everyone could probably be diagnosed with something, too, and just because someone has a diagnosis doesn't mean they are an unfit parent. I'm wondering what the OP mentioned that made you think it rose to the level of being an unfit parent vs. just being an ass while co-parenting or parenting. Husband's ex probably has borderline personality disorder and she's a giant ass, a huge headache at every turn, but the bottom line is whether she's an unfit parent or not, whether she's in contempt or not, etc. Even if she were to be dx tomorrow, that's still kinda neither here nor there to whether she's obeying court orders and is a fit parent. Some women get very bitchy several days a month due to PMS induced rages or what not -- should their parental rights be curtailed? That would all depend on whether they are a fit parent or not as judged by a judge.

OP, do you all have joint physical custody (50/50) or are you the NCP?
I can see if you have joint physical how deliberate ass-ness would be very difficult to contend with. If it's not shared physical, it's probably a little easier on some of the day to day issues you wouldn't have to run by him any more. But, if your daughter is ill, seeing a doctor, etc., you would still have to share that kind of information with the NCP.