Moving Out Of State

[nicolesmom]

New York, want to move to SC. I have a 12 year old daughter. My parents live in SC, my father recently had a quad-bypass and is unable to drive. My mother does not drive. I would like to relocate to assist them (bring my father to his Dr's apts and help my mother with the household etc.). My daughter has been visiting my parents every summer since she was 8. She has several friends in SC. She would like to move and is thrilled with being able to see her grandparents more. Here is a little info about my Ex-Husband. He has 2 felony DWI's and has been to a long term rehab facility and jail. I stayed with him through everything and supported his rehabilitation completely. My daughter witnessed a lot in her young life, ie, her father stumbling drunk and being abusive. I divorced him when he started drinking again. I have custody and he has reasonable rights of visitation (I drove her to see him every other weekend when he didn't have his license). I never talk bad about my Ex to my daughter (I bite my tongue). She knows all that he has been through, so, when she goes to visit him and sees a ton of beer cans (he tells her they are his friends), she gets very upset. She has also seen pot in his house. She asked him what it was and he told her. (She had no idea what it was until that day). He has fits of rage in front of her and scares her. Yes, she still loves him. I am so afraid for her safety when she visits and she is a nervous wreck when she gets home. Currently I started the legal process to get permission to move from the court. My Ex said he would let us go, but, when we went to court the 1st time, he said no. I was given the name of a law guardian for my daughter, and I have not heard back from my 4 messages. I am very nervous about the outcome. Does anyone know what MY rights are? Given his background and all that my daughter has told me about her visits (by the way, I do not ask her what happens with daddy, she tells me).

 

[VeronicaGia]

You have no proof other than what your child tells you. And as far as YOUR rights, once you decided to allow a judge to prevail over your family issues, until the child emancipates, a judge will continue to prevail over your family issues. Now it is entirely up to a judge to decide if you can move, who will pay for the transportation back and forth, and who will do the transporting.

 

[nicolesmom]

Is there any way I can have the court test him for pot/drugs? When he was on probation, he was violated numerous times for having a positive for marijuana.

Also, as far as getting the court involved. I thought I "had" to. I was under the impression if I took her out of state that he could drag me back and I could possibly get into trouble. I am trying to do this "legally".

 

[BL]

First of All what does the Custody/visitation order state ?
Usually NY includes Neither parent is to remove the child(ren) from New York state except for vacations without the written permission from the other Party.

Also any visitations would be interfered with by YOU , if you took it upon your self to move and violate the Orders.

Depending on the age of the child , statements made by the child ( the subject of the hearings) is not considered hearsay. So they would be admissible.
You need to document dates and times and what specifically you child has Stated to you.

Just bringing these statements up out of the blue will not hold water,and it must be proved that Dad is somehow endangering the child to have visitations stopped.

From what you have posted, he WAS on probation and you have NO proof visitations should be modified , and I doubt w/o Dad's consent you'll be able to legally relocate.

 

[nicolesmom]

I need to dig out the divorce papers, but, I have custody of our daughter and I know it states that he will have "reasonable rights of visitation".

Let me say, I am not trying to take away ALL his visitation. I offered to transport her to and from SC for 2 weeks (of his choice) in the summer months at MY expense. He has no way of taking care of her during work hours since he has no family members to watch her or money to have her at camp etc. while he is at work. In addition, I offered one week during Christmas and Easter break. I also tried to have mediation, but, he flat out refused it.

He is very angry that he is paying back child support (he owes several months). He complains to our daughter that he has no money for food when she visits and blames it on me. The last time she visited, she came home starving, he didn't feed her that day. I am very afraid to let her visit, but, I do not believe I have any recourse.

 

[nicolesmom]

NEW QUESTION RE: Moving Out of State

I checked my divorce papers and the exact wording is:

"Ordered and adjudged that the Plaintiff shall have custody of the child of the marriage"

"Ordered and adjudged that the Defendant shall have reasonable rights of visitation away from the custodial residence"

1) Do I still need to go to court to request permission to move our daughter out of state if the defendant still has "reasonable rights of visitation"?

2) IF not, can I request that the current proceedings be halted? OR would that be a bad idea?

Thank you for taking the time to read this, your response is very much appreciated!

 

[ktarra617]

If there is nothing in the decree stating that you can't move the child out of new york then TECHNICALLY yes you can move, however standard in every decree is the notice that you must give dad some many days notice of any intended move. Its like 30 or 60 days to give him a chance to get a lawyer and fight it.

He knows about the move and is apparently against it for whatever reasons. The court is now involved, you will need to speak to your attorney but keep in mind that the California State Supreme court ruled a few weeks back that custodial parents no longer have the PRESUMPTIVE right to move, other states can look at that ruling and use it as a basis to prevent other move aways.

I am really not saying this to discourage you but you must know what is going on and how to fight it.

Chances are even if you tried to stop the proceedings and just move anyway that he would start them over again and then you would be in a whole lot of trouble with the court for trying to go around them...

Just food for thought....

 

[nicolesmom]

Thank you KT!

I just spoke to my lawyer. He said I am doing the right thing going about it this way. If I just left, I'd be doing so "behind the courts back", which would make things worse. I have to believe in the court system, that in the end the right decision will be made. However, I have read some pretty horrific cases if injustice in this forum that scare me.

Here is something my lawyer suggested: Since my daughter claims that she saw "pot" in his apartment, he suggested that we do an "on the spot" drug screening for BOTH of us (I never did drugs and have an occasional drink, so I'm OK). We have court on Monday (5/24).

Does anyone know what will happen if his test comes up positive?

 

[nicolesmom]

UPDATE - Need Advice

Per my other posts, I've been going to court to get permission to move to another state with our 12 year old daughter.

UPDATE: I had court yesterday. My ex-husband agreed to let our daughter go with me to SC. The new issue I face is setting up appropriate and fair visitation. Since my ex-husband admitted in court that he is in relapse (has 2 felony DWI's on his record) and that he had "paraphernalia" in his apartment, I want to make sure when she comes to NY for her visits that he will not be drinking or smoking pot etc.. The judge was going to require him to take a forensics test (instead of alcohol screening), but, my daughters law guardian said it was a moot point, since he admitted to having a problem and that he is in relapse. To make a long story short..... the judge asked if my ex-husband and I could come to an agreement privately with our lawyers and submit the paperwork to him for approval (basically not take up any more of the courts time). I have an appointment with both lawyers, the law guardian and my ex-husband June 30. My ex-husband's lawyer stated that he "is a man of little means" and can not afford to transport our daughter (even drive to meet me 1/2 way, which is about 400 miles).

Can someone please give me advice. I would like to know if you have an idea for an appropriate and fair visitation schedule. Also, is there anything I should ask be put in the papers that may come up as a problem in the future (that I can avoid now)?

 

[BL]

the judge asked if my ex-husband and I could come to an agreement privately with our lawyers and submit the paperwork to him for approval
[ quote ]

And that's what Judges usually do . If the Parties can not work it out then the Judge will decide .

The Standard is 2 weeks out of the summer upon 2 weeks written notice , every other weekend, every other major holiday.

Since DAD can not afford travel expenses and has agreed to let you move with you child, If you really want this move you should make sure you provide reasonable visitations.

Summer - maybe 3 weeks
school vacations - fair amount of days
At least some major holiday - they usually get extra days around some of them off from school.
And you should be prepared to incur the travel cost

Remember, there is NO written Order yet. If you can not or will not accommodate visits for him , he can simply stated " Your Honor I was willing to work with the mother on visitation but what has been offered is not acceptable " " I can not afford travel expenses and now if she moves with our child my father / child relationship will suffer " " she can not have her cake and eat it too " .

I appose the move .

That's what you can expect , or If you can't come to an agreement , the Judge will decide.

 

[nicolesmom]

[/QUOTE]
Since DAD can not afford travel expenses and has agreed to let you move with you child, If you really want this move you should make sure you provide reasonable visitations.

Summer - maybe 3 weeks
school vacations - fair amount of days
At least some major holiday - they usually get extra days around some of them off from school.
And you should be prepared to incur the travel cost
[/QUOTE]

That sounds fair. I wouldn't have a problem with transportation, if he doesn't want to help. Thank you

 

[Gonwin]

Nicolesmom

I don't believe it's about your ex "not wanting to help". He's made it clear that he can't afford transportation, yet he is allowing you to move his child to another state. I think you should be extremely grateful that you and your daughter might be allowed to start a new life in NC. I wouldn't quip about the transportation end of this. It's your choice to move her and you should be the one responsible to transport her back and forth to see her father.

 

[nicolesmom]

I don't believe it's about your ex "not wanting to help". He's made it clear that he can't afford transportation, yet he is allowing you to move his child to another state. I think you should be extremely grateful that you and your daughter might be allowed to start a new life in NC. I wouldn't quip about the transportation end of this. It's your choice to move her and you should be the one responsible to transport her back and forth to see her father.

I agree with you (I phrased my response wrong). But, my question isn't just about the transportation issue. I'm looking for advice on what to offer as far as an "appropriate and fair visitation schedule".

 

[Gonwin]

Nicolesmom

Someone else on this forum might have a better answer than mine, but this is what I would do...

I would write up a schedule like this (example):

SUMMER BREAK:
I will arrange and pay for Nicole's transportation (to and from) her father's residence every July 1st through July 22nd.

EASTER BREAK:
I will arrange and pay for Nicole's transportation (to and from) her father's residence every April 1st through April 5th.

CHRISTMAS BREAK:
I will arrange and pay for Nicole's transportation (to and from) her father's residence every December 26th through January 2nd.

EXTRA VISITS:
I will pay for half of the transportation costs for _____ to visit Nicole in South Carolina on the following occasions: Every Father's Day, Nicole's Birthday(s), Nicole's graduation from High School.

I would also write a provision for her being sick or going to camp (or whatever), so an alternate date can be arranged without breaking your agreement. I feel it's important that he sees it in writing that he will have certain dates for visitation and that you will be responsible for paying for her transportation. Otherwise, he might not agree to the terms...

 

[nicolesmom]

Someone else on this forum might have a better answer than mine, but this is what I would do...

I would write up a schedule like this (example):

SUMMER BREAK:
I will arrange and pay for Nicole's transportation (to and from) her father's residence every July 1st through July 22nd.

EASTER BREAK:
I will arrange and pay for Nicole's transportation (to and from) her father's residence every April 1st through April 5th.

CHRISTMAS BREAK:
I will arrange and pay for Nicole's transportation (to and from) her father's residence every December 26th through January 2nd.

EXTRA VISITS:
I will pay for half of the transportation costs for _____ to visit Nicole in South Carolina on the following occasions: Every Father's Day, Nicole's Birthday(s), Nicole's graduation from High School.

I would also write a provision for her being sick or going to camp (or whatever), so an alternate date can be arranged without breaking your agreement. I feel it's important that he sees it in writing that he will have certain dates for visitation and that you will be responsible for paying for her transportation. Otherwise, he might not agree to the terms...

Thank you for your idea. I was thinking along the same lines as you. I spoke to my ex-husband last night about this year's summer vacation, since we should be closing on the house the middle to end of July. Our daughter usually goes to my parents for the summer months and would be leaving this Friday, 6/25. Since things are different this year, if she goes 6/25, she wouldn't see her father till Christmas, which is horrible. I offered to keep her here in NY and he can take her on 6/25 till we close and move.

Here's a new issue. He said he would love to have her, but, he doesn't have anyone who can watch her during the day, since he works. She would have to be alone all day. He said that he is going to have the same problem in the future when she visits. I asked him about his relatives, can they watch her and he said it would be too much for him to bring her back and forth (before and after) work. He said he'd have to get up too early in the morning, they live about 20 minutes away. Any suggestions?