NCP won't return child...help please!

[ICUB4ER]

What is the name of your state? Kansas

Temp. order only states reasonable visitation.
I just called stbx to see when he was bringing dd home from her weekend with him. He was supposed to have her home at 2 pm. He told me that if I wanted her I had to come to his house 30 miles away and get her, otherwise he was keeping her until I came to get her.
He said that I am responsible for half of the driving and that he would pick her up for visits, but I had to find a way to come get her if I want her back. I don't have a vehicle and he knows that!
I told him to have her home by 3 pm or I would go to the police.
I am going to the police department at 3 pm if he doesn't bring her home to see if they can make him bring her home since I don't have a way to go get her.
Can I stop all visits with him until I have a specific court order that states that he has to bring her home and when. He chose to move in with his girlfriend 30 miles away. He should bear the transportation costs, not me.
Can the police do anything to help me get my daughter home?

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state? Kansas

Temp. order only states reasonable visitation.
I just called stbx to see when he was bringing dd home from her weekend with him. He was supposed to have her home at 2 pm. He told me that if I wanted her I had to come to his house 30 miles away and get her, otherwise he was keeping her until I came to get her.
He said that I am responsible for half of the driving and that he would pick her up for visits, but I had to find a way to come get her if I want her back. I don't have a vehicle and he knows that!
I told him to have her home by 3 pm or I would go to the police.
I am going to the police department at 3 pm if he doesn't bring her home to see if they can make him bring her home since I don't have a way to go get her.
Can I stop all visits with him until I have a specific court order that states that he has to bring her home and when. He chose to move in with his girlfriend 30 miles away. He should bear the transportation costs, not me.
Can the police do anything to help me get my daughter home?

You are in a tough situation because the orders say "reasonable visitation"...therefore the police have nothing to go on as regards to when he is supposed to have her home.

I think you better find a way to go get her....one way or another even if you have to rent a car....and then hightail it into court to get something specified about times and transportation.

 

[ICUB4ER]

Stbx didn't bring her home so I called the police in his county. They said I needed to call the police in my county.
As usual, I get the "it's a civil matter, call your attorney".
I told them fine, I'm going out there then and getting my dd. I have residential custody, he has visitation, PERIOD!
My son and his girlfriend drove me out there.
We get there, dd is playing outside and I tell her to run in and get her things and let's go home. We waited outside for a few minutes and she never comes out. We knock on the door and are told to go the h*ll away, that dd is not going anywhere with us.
I call the sheriff in their county and tell them that my daughter is being held "hostage" by a group of teenagers.
I told the dispatcher that things were about to get REALLY ugly and that they better get an officer there NOW.
Next thing I know, stbx and his gf come screeching into the driveway, the door of the house opens and my dd came running out to me crying.
I asked her why she didn't come out earlier and she said that his gf's kids locked her in a closet in a bedroom and refused to let her out, and that stbx and his gf had been gone for over 5 hours!
I got everyone in the car and we left.
We stopped at the corner leading to their house and waited 35 MINUTES and finally 2 sheriffs officers showed up.
I explained what had happened and so did my dd, and I showed them my court order, we got the "call your attorney" BS.
I have emailed my attorney so she will know first thing in the morning, and told her that I'm sorry if it makes my divorce case more difficult than it already is, but ALL of stbx's unsupervised visits are stopped until I get a court order with specific dates, times AND law enforcement assist in them.
Stbx could have kept our dd and there is nothing that the police can do about it because it's a "civil matter".
Apparently parental abduction is legal if you don't have specific dates and times for visitation, nevermind that you are the CUSTODIAL PARENT!
If he wants to see either dd, he will have to come here and STAY here to visit. He is NOT taking either of them anywhere unsupervised until I get a new court order.
Hopefully this won't hurt me when we go to court.

 

[Ithildriel]

How frightening

For your daughter. I hope it works out soon.

 

[THE PRACTICE-27]

Stbx didn't bring her home so I called the police in his county. They said I needed to call the police in my county.
As usual, I get the "it's a civil matter, call your attorney".
I told them fine, I'm going out there then and getting my dd. I have residential custody, he has visitation, PERIOD!
My son and his girlfriend drove me out there.
We get there, dd is playing outside and I tell her to run in and get her things and let's go home. We waited outside for a few minutes and she never comes out. We knock on the door and are told to go the h*ll away, that dd is not going anywhere with us.
I call the sheriff in their county and tell them that my daughter is being held "hostage" by a group of teenagers.
I told the dispatcher that things were about to get REALLY ugly and that they better get an officer there NOW.
Next thing I know, stbx and his gf come screeching into the driveway, the door of the house opens and my dd came running out to me crying.
I asked her why she didn't come out earlier and she said that his gf's kids locked her in a closet in a bedroom and refused to let her out, and that stbx and his gf had been gone for over 5 hours!
I got everyone in the car and we left.
We stopped at the corner leading to their house and waited 35 MINUTES and finally 2 sheriffs officers showed up.
I explained what had happened and so did my dd, and I showed them my court order, we got the "call your attorney" BS.
I have emailed my attorney so she will know first thing in the morning, and told her that I'm sorry if it makes my divorce case more difficult than it already is, but ALL of stbx's unsupervised visits are stopped until I get a court order with specific dates, times AND law enforcement assist in them.
Stbx could have kept our dd and there is nothing that the police can do about it because it's a "civil matter".
Apparently parental abduction is legal if you don't have specific dates and times for visitation, nevermind that you are the CUSTODIAL PARENT!
If he wants to see either dd, he will have to come here and STAY here to visit. He is NOT taking either of them anywhere unsupervised until I get a new court order.
Hopefully this won't hurt me when we go to court.

My response:

Yet, you found the time to get back on this site to write this drivel. As if there was ANYTHING we could do for you from the Internet. And besides, you have your own attorney!

How many times do we see this same thing played out each day, here on the forums? I know I see it all the time in my offices. Pay me, and I'll care.

Everybody - - raise your hands if you care.

IAAL

 

[casa]

What is the name of your state? Kansas

Temp. order only states reasonable visitation.
I just called stbx to see when he was bringing dd home from her weekend with him. He was supposed to have her home at 2 pm. He told me that if I wanted her I had to come to his house 30 miles away and get her, otherwise he was keeping her until I came to get her.
He said that I am responsible for half of the driving and that he would pick her up for visits, but I had to find a way to come get her if I want her back. I don't have a vehicle and he knows that!
I told him to have her home by 3 pm or I would go to the police.
I am going to the police department at 3 pm if he doesn't bring her home to see if they can make him bring her home since I don't have a way to go get her.
Can I stop all visits with him until I have a specific court order that states that he has to bring her home and when. He chose to move in with his girlfriend 30 miles away. He should bear the transportation costs, not me.
Can the police do anything to help me get my daughter home?

No it won't look good for you to unilaterally stop allowing visitations. In fact, that won't look good at all.

Since your order doesn't specify days/times...then there was nothing for law enforcement to enforce. (For all they know you agreed to let Dad have daughter, then changed your mind- weird drama happens in custody cases) Once your new order is issued & it outlines days/time- then you won't have this problem anymore...and if you did, the police would have something to go by.

Transportation commonly includes the parent who is receiving is the one who drives and picks up. So NCP picks up at beginning & CP picks up at end. Another common arrangement is that both parents drive 1/2 way to meet for drop off/pick up. You are willing to do neither one...and you should prepare yourself for the court telling you they don't care if you don't have transportation. That's your problem- fix it. Get rides, Borrow a car, ask a relative to drop off/pick up, etc. Commuting an hour round trip for visitations is probably getting costly as gas prices increase. You should both be responsible for 1/2. The court is most likely to order the same.

 

[LdiJ]

No it won't look good for you to unilaterally stop allowing visitations. In fact, that won't look good at all.

Since your order doesn't specify days/times...then there was nothing for law enforcement to enforce. (For all they know you agreed to let Dad have daughter, then changed your mind- weird drama happens in custody cases) Once your new order is issued & it outlines days/time- then you won't have this problem anymore...and if you did, the police would have something to go by.

Transportation commonly includes the parent who is receiving is the one who drives and picks up. So NCP picks up at beginning & CP picks up at end. Another common arrangement is that both parents drive 1/2 way to meet for drop off/pick up. You are willing to do neither one...and you should prepare yourself for the court telling you they don't care if you don't have transportation. That's your problem- fix it. Get rides, Borrow a car, ask a relative to drop off/pick up, etc. Commuting an hour round trip for visitations is probably getting costly as gas prices increase. You should both be responsible for 1/2. The court is most likely to order the same.

However, the fact that the girlfriend's kids locked the child in the house and refused to turn her over to her parent (let alone locking her in the closet) is pretty traumatic stuff.....plus, dad told her to pick up the child and then participated in the refusal to turn the child over to mom.....because otherwise the teens would have been instructed accordingly.

Since the orders say "reasonable visitation" its possible that the judge might think that mom offering visitation in her home until a specific schedule is ordered....under these circumstances....could be "reasonable".

I agree though that mom is going to have to figure out a way to deal with providing half of the transportation. There is a chance that the judge would order dad to provide it since he created the distance...but its not all that likely.

 

[stealth2]

However, it's impossible to know what the actual circumpstances behind the skids keeping her from leaving were. I can easily see a kid in the position of babysitter not allowing someone other than the parent s/he knows to take the kid they're watching.

And OP added to this drama. The way it played out shows that she DID have a way to go get the kid - she simply chose not to utilize that possibility. Instead, she called cops all over creation (and the fact remains - custody orders generally ARE a civil matter and the cops won't enforce it. It's contempt, not kidnapping). Then she added yet more to it by waiting for the cops to show up and having her kid tell "her story".

I think both parents need to learn to play well with others.

 

[casa]

However, the fact that the girlfriend's kids locked the child in the house and refused to turn her over to her parent (let alone locking her in the closet) is pretty traumatic stuff.....plus, dad told her to pick up the child and then participated in the refusal to turn the child over to mom.....because otherwise the teens would have been instructed accordingly.

Since the orders say "reasonable visitation" its possible that the judge might think that mom offering visitation in her home until a specific schedule is ordered....under these circumstances....could be "reasonable".

I agree though that mom is going to have to figure out a way to deal with providing half of the transportation. There is a chance that the judge would order dad to provide it since he created the distance...but its not all that likely.

We do not know what happened with the teenagers~ And neither will the judge. Since there is no days/times for the order...how will Mom prove contempt? If this went before the judge...I could see both parents being admonished for acting irresponsible & involving children in their bickering.

The only way to solve this is get a court order which designates days/times.

And even though Dad created the 30 mi. difference (which is not that far in CA)...Mom hasn't/didn't address any transportation issues at that time. Dad will say Mom agreed to do 1/2 transporting- Mom will say Dad is supposed to provide transportation...and the judge won't have the time or patience to unravel it all & will most likely order them to meet 1/2 way or Receiving parent picks up.

As for the child...if Mom truly believes she was locked in the closet- she should be pursuing counseling or some other route to help the child resolve the issue. (That would also provide a professional's opinion of whether or not the visits or what happens during them, is traumatic for the child)

Honestly? Most CA courts are crammed full... and there just isn't the time or resources for courts to micromanage parents.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

We do not know what happened with the teenagers~ And neither will the judge. Since there is no days/times for the order...how will Mom prove contempt? If this went before the judge...I could see both parents being admonished for acting irresponsible & involving children in their bickering.

The only way to solve this is get a court order which designates days/times.

And even though Dad created the 30 mi. difference (which is not that far in CA)...Mom hasn't/didn't address any transportation issues at that time. Dad will say Mom agreed to do 1/2 transporting- Mom will say Dad is supposed to provide transportation...and the judge won't have the time or patience to unravel it all & will most likely order them to meet 1/2 way or Receiving parent picks up.

As for the child...if Mom truly believes she was locked in the closet- she should be pursuing counseling or some other route to help the child resolve the issue. (That would also provide a professional's opinion of whether or not the visits or what happens during them, is traumatic for the child)

Honestly? Most CA courts are crammed full... and there just isn't the time or resources for courts to micromanage parents.

But this is Kansas not California and it is possible that dad moved in with his GF after the visitation order was written thus dad is forcing the issue until she takes him back to court. Needless to say there ismore to this picture. The best way to handle it would have been to get a ride and collect the child at the end if visitation and then file to clarify the visitation order y an appropriate court filing ASAP. Knowingly and falsely reporting that her child was being held by teenagers when she knew they were providing child care in an effort to force law enforcement to enforce her ambigous order could result in criminal charges against her as well as be used against her in the modificaiton she seeks. Their story will be they were protecting her from abduction and acting in the best interest of the child and that she hid in the closet.

 

[casa]

But this is Kansas not California and it is possible that dad moved in with his GF after the visitation order was written thus dad is forcing the issue until she takes him back to court. Needless to say there ismore to this picture. The best way to handle it would have been to get a ride and collect the child at the end if visitation and then file to clarify the visitation order y an appropriate court filing ASAP. Knowingly and falsely reporting that her child was being held by teenagers when she knew they were providing child care in an effort to force law enforcement to enforce her ambigous order could result in criminal charges against her as well as be used against her in the modificaiton she seeks. Their story will be they were protecting her from abduction and acting in the best interest of the child and that she hid in the closet.

Thanks for the clarification (must have mixed my threads up ...OK, time for more coffee ) Although knowing KS fairly well...30 miles isn't that far there even moreso since there are more rural areas.

I agree the story of what happened will be hard to prove/deny. And I found it ironic that Mom DID get a ride to pick up her child In fact, what probably happened is that Mom told Dad he had to return child & Mom said she had no transpo...Dad & GF left the teens to babysit...Mom then shows up after all & the teens didn't know what to do. Interestingly, Dad & GF then pulled up (I suspect the teens called Dad & GF who told them they were on their way home & to wait until they get there)

 

[rmet4nzkx]

Your issues with visitation are not new, nor making accusations or reports to CPS, How often has your attorney spoken with you about where this can lead?
https://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?t=307535 https://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?t=306534

 

[LdiJ]

While I am not particularly impressed with the way that mom is handling some things. She has some valid issues.

Inappropriate touching between stepsiblings (or almost stepsiblings) isn't rare (teens)....particularly if they are not properly supervised. Apparently dad left the 10 year old home alone with the same teens who were doing the inappropriate touching a few months ago. That shows some pretty poor judgement on dad's part.

Dad obviously is being a bit of a jerk about the visitation schedule as well. Showing up at mom's house at 10PM after already being told that it wasn't his weekend was extremely childish on dad's part....suddenly refusing to bring the child back was childish as well.

However, mom is also not handling things properly either. She should have sent the child back to her room and told dad to leave.

However, if dad's girlfriend's kids locked my child in a closet and wouldn't let her out of the house I probably would have called the cops too.

The bottom line is that its time to go back to court for a specific and enforceable visitation schedule....with specific orders regarding transportation. That will eliminate most of the problems. However, I also think that mom should at least ask the judge to order that the girls not be left alone with the other teens.

 

[ICUB4ER]

The teenagers weren't really "babysitters" as stbx and his gf always leave the children home alone when they have them for visitation...hers and ours.
I do not have a vehicle and have to rely on others for rides. I can't expect any of them to drop what they are doing to give me a ride. They give me rides as a favor, not as a responsibility.
I had to have a 17 yr old young lady drive me to get my dd because she was the only one available.
Stbx works less than 2 miles from my house where he picks the children up, yet he chose to move in with his gf 30 miles away the day after she kicked her husband out.
I have no problem in meeting him halfway to pick them up from him at the end of his visits.
Yes, I can see NOW where I haven't made the very best decisions in some cases.
But, when emotions are running high, what you think at the time is the best idea often times turns out to be not quite the best. Hindsight is always 20/20.
Both children and I have been in weekly counseling since the first day of the split.
Since I had already called the sherriff, I thought it would be best to wait for them down the street rather than just leave and not be there when they got there.
I didn't have my dd talk to the sherriff, they asked if they could talk to her and I gave them permission.
I have a call in to my attorney so I can get a more specific visitation order, but she hasn't returned from court so I can speak with her.
I want the girls to have their time with their dad, but I DON'T want them to have to continue going through his games and BS being slung anymore either.
His gf also needs to butt out and realize that she has NO say when it comes to our girls.
I was with this man for 17 years and married to him for 15 years and know that his behaviour isn't "his".