Need Advice

[I_Need_Advice]

This is long, so please bear with me.

My husband and I moved into the upper level of a duplex in 2007. The owner lived here, then moved out. Another set of tenants moved in afterward, then they moved out in February 2009. The owner informed us that he hired or got bought out by a property management company to help look after some of his properties, however, my husband and I were still in contact with the owner if any issues arose. In the middle of March 2009, a new tenant moved in, and immediately, this tenant began causing problems. I work at home, and this tenant was blasting music so loud, that the bass note was shaking the floor, thus being disruptive to me as I tried to work.

I let the owner know what was going on, and he informed me to start writing down the times when the downstairs tenant would blast their music and give him the letters. I did this, and at one point during the summer of 2009, we had to call the police on them because the downstairs tenant was having a loud/noisy party at 1 a.m. My husband and I met with the owner and asked him to meet with this downstairs tenant and let her know she’s been causing problems and perhaps give her some rules about keeping up noise; this was in July 2009. I assume the owner met with this person, as the loud music during the day and night finally did stop. A couple of weeks after this, I received a call from someone claiming to represent a property management company (I assume the one the owner had hired/got bought out by), and she said that the owner would be “out of the picture” and not to inform him in the event of issues, but to call her instead. (This is not true; the owner still stops into his office 3-4 times a week and handles business). The property manager then sent us a letter in October 2009 about some odd things, such as it is our duty to keep a light on in the back hallway because the downstairs tenants needed to see (the light is accessible to everyone, so all the downstairs tenant would have to do is turn it on) and raking leaves – lawn care/raking leaves/snow removal was never something we agreed to when we signed our lease and no new lease was drawn up about us needing to care for the lawn, etc., so we were not sure why this property manager was telling us we needed to do this. This letter was only sent out to me and my husband and not the downstairs tenant. I notified the owner about the letter in hopes that he would contact us and talk with us, but he simply passed it back to the property manager and the property manager called us again asking us to “discuss” the letter with her. We did not respond to this property manager and nothing came of it.

A couple of weeks ago, we received a couple of calls from this property manager that someone (the downstairs tenant obviously, as my husband and I did not; we stopped using the washer and dryer after a while and have been going to the laundromat to wash our clothes) called about the dryer needing to be serviced and that she needed one of us to arrange to have the service person let in. We did not respond to her, as we assumed since the downstairs tenant called about the dryer, that she would call the property manager back and make the arrangements. The service person actually came today (the downstairs tenant was home today and let him in) and the dryer is now fixed.

Last Friday, the property manager sent out another letter addressed to my husband and I only (not the downstairs tenant) about needing to attend a “mandatory meeting.” I don’t know what this meeting is supposed to be about, but we feel that we do not need to attend and that the property manager has been harassing my husband and I somewhat. I have since done research to indicate that the property manager is friends with/related to the tenant downstairs and the property manager seems not to have our best interests at heart, and the owner is trying to stay out of the mess. The owner will not return our calls or respond to our letters. Our last communication with him was in July 2009. Our lease ends in April of this year, so we are trying to hold on until February, when we are able to give our 60-day notice of intent to vacate, but we need advice regarding if we really need to attend this “mandatory meeting” and if we can break our lease now in order to move out as soon as possible.

Thank you!

 

[Some Random Guy]

Last Friday, the property manager sent out another letter addressed to my husband and I only (not the downstairs tenant) about needing to attend a “mandatory meeting.” I don’t know what this meeting is supposed to be about, but we feel that we do not need to attend and that the property manager has been harassing my husband and I somewhat. I have since done research to indicate that the property manager is friends with/related to the tenant downstairs and the property manager seems not to have our best interests at heart, and the owner is trying to stay out of the mess. The owner will not return our calls or respond to our letters. Our last communication with him was in July 2009. Our lease ends in April of this year, so we are trying to hold on until February, when we are able to give our 60-day notice of intent to vacate, but we need advice regarding if we really need to attend this “mandatory meeting” and if we can break our lease now in order to move out as soon as possible.

Send the management company a reply letter that you are unable to attend the "mandatory" meeting and that you would be happy to correspond with them in the mail if they would kindly provide the topics to discuss. If they continue to demand your attendance at a meeting, ask them to explain where in your lease you have agreed to attend meetings at a time and place chosen by the management company.

 

[I_Need_Advice]

Send the management company a reply letter that you are unable to attend the "mandatory" meeting and that you would be happy to correspond with them in the mail if they would kindly provide the topics to discuss. If they continue to demand your attendance at a meeting, ask them to explain where in your lease you have agreed to attend meetings at a time and place chosen by the management company.

Thank you so much for your input.

This is what I was also contemplating - sending a letter stating that we are unable to attend, but if the matter is urgent, the owner (not property manager) could call us and let us know what the issue(s) is/are (I have a feeling that the owner doesn't know what the property manager is doing behind his back) or if the meeting takes place without us being there to mail us a copy of the meeting minutes.

 

[Some Random Guy]

If the manager wants you to deal with the management company, then deal with the management company. If you don't trust the management company, then keep your correspondence in writing.

 

[I_Need_Advice]

Well, someone from the property mgmt. company just called us AGAIN, I believe in response to the letter I mailed to them yesterday. I did not answer the phone nor will I listen to the message. We are not late in our rent, we did not or do not break any rules in our lease. What is the big emergency? At this point, I feel it's turning into harassment. What can I do to get this person to get off my back until we give our 60-day notice next month?

 

[I_Need_Advice]

So, my husband decided to go ahead and listen to the voice mail message that the property mgr. left yesterday. He said that, on the voice mail message, she is claiming that “all” of the owner’s tenants HAVE to have a “one-on-one” meeting with her, and she is continuing to demand that we meet her. He said that she actually said “THIS IS NOT AN OPTION.” I wrote a letter back to the company, as instructed above, stating that mandatory meetings with the property mgr. or owner is not a clause in our lease, so we are NOT required to meet her, and if she had any issues with us in the future to send them to us via postal mail. I don't understand why she wants to meet with us NOW when she has been working there since last summer and had every opportunity to meet us last year? What has changed that there is such an urgency on her part? Rent is not late, no other issues ongoing - this is why I feel she is harassing us.

I went over the lease again and noted that there is a point in our lease that states that the management or owner can make amendments to the lease, however, the amendment has to be attached to the original lease we signed, and any changes have to be in writing. I have a bad feeling she or the owner is going to try to amend our lease to include that we ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO MEET WITH HER.

Again, our lease is not up until April 30th. If she makes this amendment, are we forced to meet her or will we need to get an attorney to have her stop harassing us?

 

[wesawitbleed]

any amendments must be agreed by you while on a lease. she/owner cannot force it on you. if you do not agree with anything they want to change then do not let yourself be bullied into it. once you are month to month is another story. i can't say if they give you proper notice that you must attend these "mandatory meetings" is legal/enforceable.

keep the voice mail and any other correspondences for future reference in case things get out of hand. keep a log of any other interactions so you can go back and give specific dates and times if needed. this is why it is better to deal with written letters than things being said verbally. it's a good thing you plan on leaving once your lease runs out as i suspect conditions might get worse once you are month to month.

 

[I_Need_Advice]

any amendments must be agreed by you while on a lease. she/owner cannot force it on you. if you do not agree with anything they want to change then do not let yourself be bullied into it. once you are month to month is another story. i can't say if they give you proper notice that you must attend these "mandatory meetings" is legal/enforceable.

keep the voice mail and any other correspondences for future reference in case things get out of hand. keep a log of any other interactions so you can go back and give specific dates and times if needed. this is why it is better to deal with written letters than things being said verbally. it's a good thing you plan on leaving once your lease runs out as i suspect conditions might get worse once you are month to month.

Thank you very much for your input. We have been saving all voice mails and letters sent to us up to this point.

I have a feeling that even if we did try to stay after our lease was up that the property mgr. would not have renewed our lease.

Side note: The downstairs tenant's daughter needs a place to stay, and I think the daughter wants to move into our unit, so perhaps this may be part of why the property mgr. is causing us drama, trying to force us out before our time. (This is just my opinion based on observations).

 

[I_Need_Advice]

Update: The property management company has not bothered us since I sent that last letter out to them. However, the downstairs tenant has allowed some people to move in against her lease (she's supposed to be the only person living there, but I saw a moving truck and other people moving their belongings in), and they are noisier than ever. I have already had to call the police on them reporting a "noisy party" after 10 p.m., but that does not seem to deter them. This issue was to be settled last year, as I wrote in the first e-mail that the owner met with my husband and I in July, and the owner said he would meet with the tenant to tell her to knock it off. After that, it seemed to be very quiet in the evenings for a few months, but in December, the loudness started back up again. The walls are are thin, so we hear EVERYTHING that is said and goes on downstairs. They play loud music, talk too loud, turn the T.V. up too loud at night, along with a crying baby and kids running hither and yon in the apartment and up and down the back stairs past 11 p.m. We don't know how much longer we can keep calling the police on them without them trying to take revenge on us eventually.

Since this problem has not been resolved after having notified the owner about it numerous times via letter and meeting him in person, do we, as tenants, have any legal right to break our lease early, give a 30-day notice and leave because of this? (Our lease does not end until April 30th). As previously noted, the owner has chosen to wash his hands of the matter and will not return our calls; he has left everything up to the property manager, who is either a friend or relative of the tenant, so it seems no matter what the downstairs tenant and her cronies do, the property manager will not evict. If I wrote a note to the property manager about the noise, it would only be a waste of paper, envelope and a stamp and this could cause more problems for my husband and I.

Please advise!

Thanks, again.

 

[FarmerJ]

writing them never is a waste, it gives you a paper trail along with confirmed mail delivery slip that you have contacted them about a specific matter. Those paper trails are most useful should you end up in court with the LL-PM plan on finishing out your lease and getting pics of the final condition of your unit so again you have proof of what condition you have left the unit in if you must challenge them in court for deposit funds.

 

[IrishNodak]

I agree with FarmerJ. Definitely take pictures when you move and try to insist on a move out walk through with the PM.

You might try sending a letter to the PM and ask her if she would give you WRITTEN permission to vacate early with no financial obligation for the remaining months and return of security deposit after move out inspection. If she really wants the unit for the DT and family then she just might want you gone as bad as you want to go. Worth a stamp I think. But if she does agree, make sure that it's in writing and very clear in case she tries to take you to court for any reason.

 

[I_Need_Advice]

Thanks to everyone for the advice and info. Much appreciated!

I didn't think we'd make it, but we're going to go ahead and stay until the end of the lease. We will give our 60-day notice in a couple of weeks and are already preparing to move. We will definitely take pictures and ask for a move-out walkthrough.

I had another question: Would it be a good thing to send not only the March rent check but a rent check for April as well along with the 60-day notice? (Already planning on sending the notice via certified mail) That way, we'd be paid up and wouldn't have to worry about owing the owner one more month of rent.

Thanks, again.

 

[FarmerJ]

No real reason to send your april payment early unless you really wish to , BUT sending your notice that you will not renew and your rent payments via the minimum of certificate of mailing or confirmed mail delivery atleast gives you proof of having sent something to them and courts do lean towards most any kind of paper proofs of having put something into the mail.

 

[I_Need_Advice]

Update: Neighbors had loud party a couple of weeks ago. We notified property management company notified via letter. Not sure if neighbor was chastised about this, but my guess is perhaps not, and the neighbor will probably have another loud party again.

Last week, the neighbor decided to get new dog or is watching someone’s dog that CONSTANTLY BARKS when the neighbor leaves. We know the neighbor is aware of this, as she can hear the dog barking inside before she comes up the front walk. Letter sent to the property management company. Guess what? BARKING ISSUE NOT RESOLVED. I work at home and have a cat, so it has been very annoying having to hear this dog barking the whole day until the neighbor comes home, and my cat is freaked out, thus his behavior is a bit off.

Husband and I feel we are within our legal right to leave some time in March or at the beginning of April instead of April 30th with the caveat that we still pay March and April rent. We just can’t deal with the mismanagement and headaches of living here anymore! What else can we do? We’ve documented to our heart’s content, letting the property management company know what’s happening, YET NOTHING IS BEING DONE.