need opinions

[kellya127]

florida. I have a friend who is a nurse. She met a sick elderly man where she works. She was his nurse. He had no family, no friends, and all he wanted to do was go home and die. She said he cried and begged. He kept saying he wanted to go home. My friend decided to help him get home so he could die with dignity, where he wanted to be. She ended up doing everything. Hospice came in everything went according to plan except this. He gave my friend 2 checks totalling 10,000 bucks. She kept 3 and held onto the other check. She wanted to make sure his money lasted as long as he did. Anyway, (long story, sorry) he just died and she is worried about depositing the check. I say it's ok. He gave her the check. It was his money, right? Is it against any rules for nurses? Even though she was not working for him, just helping as a friend. Any input please. My friend doesn't want to do anything wrong, but she could really use this money.

 

[BlondiePB]

It's not okay. As a matter of fact, NOTHING that your nurse friend did was okay. This sick, elderly man was a "vulnerable" elder. Not only does your nurse friend need to void that check, your nurse friend better have the rest of the money she received from this gentleman. Just wait until someone in this man's family is notified of the death, that person becomes the executor, learns what your nurse friend did, and discovers a total of $10,000.00 withdrawn from the deceased's bank account. You better believe that your nurse friend will be facing criminal charges. There will be many.

 

[kellya127]

Come on! Is that all I can get? IAAL, where are you?

 

[BlondiePB]

Come on! Is that all I can get?

You, as a LPN who works in a long-term facility, KNOWS that what you your nurse friend did was not okay. You know what's supposed to be done in these facilities for sick, elderly, vulnerable elders. And, it is NOT what your nurse friend did. Furthermore, if you do not know why it is against company policy to take money from a resident, taking money from a resident is against the law.

 

[censored]

It's not okay. As a matter of fact, NOTHING that your nurse friend did was okay. This sick, elderly man was a "vulnerable" elder. Not only does your nurse friend need to void that check, your nurse friend better have the rest of the money she received from this gentleman. Just wait until someone in this man's family is notified of the death, that person becomes the executor, learns what your nurse friend did, and discovers a total of $10,000.00 withdrawn from the deceased's bank account. You better believe that your nurse friend will be facing criminal charges. There will be many.

Not only that, but she could, and should, lose her job as well.

 

[BlondiePB]

Not only that, but she could, and should, lose her job as well.

She should lose her license and will if reported.

 

[ellencee]

kellya127
The only area of improper conduct that I see in the events you described is the acceptance of a gift of over $25 in value. It is against the Nurse Practice Act in most states to accept a gift of value over $25. If reported to the Board of Nursing, the disciplinary board will investigate and will issue sanctions as required by law. (A disciplinary board/investigation/hearing is a court of law.)
EC

 

[BlondiePB]

kellya127
The only area of improper conduct that I see in the events you described is the acceptance of a gift of over $25 in value. It is against the Nurse Practice Act in most states to accept a gift of value over $25. If reported to the Board of Nursing, the disciplinary board will investigate and will issue sanctions as required by law. (A disciplinary board/investigation/hearing is a court of law.)
EC

The Nurse Practice Act does not govern what happened in this situation, yet. The first law that was violated was the nurse taking it upon herself assisting the now deceased man going home. The OP knows what needs to be done which is mandated by FL law. Afterall, she is a LPN that works in a long-term facility. FYI, in FL, any employee that works in a long-term facility and even an AFL that accepts a gift of money from a resident, in any amount, IS breaking FL law. What nurse did was against the law, and many of them.

 

[ellencee]

BlondiePB
I'm getting tired of this.

Of course the Nurse Practice Act governs what actions performed by a nurse, LPN or RN, are legal and which are not. The laws governing the actions of a nurse do not preclude criminal charges.

Of course a nurse can assist a patient in obtaining the services of Hospice and going home to die. Do you assume that Hospice just rolled over and played dead except to follow the directives of this LPN or that the LTC facility did?

I don't understand where you are coming from with your absolute condemnation of all of the actions taken by this nurse or of everything that I say.

EC

 

[kellya127]

Thanks EC. I don't understand either cause I can't find any research on it. I even called the Board of Nursing and they couldn't tell me. The way I see it, is this girl is a really good girl. She did a lot and I know she did it only to help him. No one would help him. There was a competency eval done before he was discharged that summarized a competent man. He had a home and could afford the 24 hour care that he needed. There was no one else involved. I hope someone would care for me like that when I get old. He said himself he didn't have any thing else to do with the money. Come on Blondie, show me something to back yourself up. I want to see it.

 

[Dandy Don]

Please clarify. You say "He gave my friend 2 checks totalling $10,000. She kept 3 and held on to the other check". Three of what?

The real question is why did he give her this money? Was it a personal gift to her in gratitude for his appreciation or did he expect her to use it for his care?

If it was a personal gift then it's hard to see how it would be wrong of her to accept it on that basis, especially if he has a substantially large estate. She should go ahead and cash it and then set the money aside and not spend it until the estate has finished being probated so she will know whether or not she has to return all or part of it to the executor only if the executor complains.

She should also visit the county courthouse probate court to see if she has been named as a beneficiary in this man's will.

DANDY DON IN OKLAHOMA (tiekh@yahoo.com)

 

[BlondiePB]

Thanks EC. I don't understand either cause I can't find any research on it. I even called the Board of Nursing and they couldn't tell me. The way I see it, is this girl is a really good girl. She did a lot and I know she did it only to help him. No one would help him. There was a competency eval done before he was discharged that summarized a competent man. He had a home and could afford the 24 hour care that he needed. There was no one else involved. I hope someone would care for me like that when I get old. He said himself he didn't have any thing else to do with the money. Come on Blondie, show me something to back yourself up. I want to see it.

Who did the competency evaluation?

How did that [the eval] come about?

Was there a safe discharge?

Here's one FL statute to start:

400.162 Property and personal affairs of residents.--

(1) The admission of a resident to a facility and his or her presence in the facility shall not confer on the facility or its owner, administrator, employees, or representatives any authority to manage, use, or dispose of any property of the resident; nor shall such admission or presence confer on any of the aforementioned persons any authority or responsibility for the personal affairs of the resident, except that which may be necessary for the safety and orderly management of the facility.

(2) No licensee, owner, administrator, employee, or representative thereof SHALL ACT as guardian, trustee, or conservator for any resident of the facility or any of such resident's property unless the person is the resident's spouse or a blood relative within the third degree of consanguinity.

There's more. I don't have time for it all now.

 

[BlondiePB]

BlondiePB
I'm getting tired of this.

Of course the Nurse Practice Act governs what actions performed by a nurse, LPN or RN, are legal and which are not. The laws governing the actions of a nurse do not preclude criminal charges.

Of course a nurse can assist a patient in obtaining the services of Hospice and going home to die. Do you assume that Hospice just rolled over and played dead except to follow the directives of this LPN or that the LTC facility did?

I don't understand where you are coming from with your absolute condemnation of all of the actions taken by this nurse or of everything that I say.

EC

EC,
You and I are just approaching things with totally different disciplines. You are approaching actions based on your discipline as as nurse and care nurses provide to patients which, of couse, is important. I deal with vulnerable adults who are at risk of abuse, neglect (including self neglect), and exploitation and know very well the laws that govern these elders by caretakers, health care providers, nursing homes, ALFs and friends and family of the person at risk, especially in FL.

If something happens to one of my "kids", guess who's legally responsible? If I see any caretaker or any nurse not taking proper care of one of my "kids", you better believe it that "heads" will role. When warranted, I will report to state authorites for investigations and know the precise agency that needs to be called and what that agency is legally responsible and liable to do. I do know things cannot be perfect and will not be perfect; however, I do know what is unacceptable.

When it comes to running at risk elders' affairs, you better believe I need to know about Medicare A, Medicare B, HMO's, Hospice, Medigap policies, deductibles and which one pays for what and for how long. Guess who reads and signs the contracts for LTCs and ALFs? There's even policies in contracts of facilities regarding employees working private duty for the residents.

I understand and respect your approach. And, I understand the laws regarding vulnerable elders. My issue is not that the now deceased needed care. How this came about was totally inappropriate. The nurse in this situation broke the law in regards to this sick, elderly, vulnerable man. I, as a legal representative, would turn her in to the proper authories and she would be facing criminal charges - and civil suits too.

BlondiePB

 

[BlondiePB]

Please clarify. You say "He gave my friend 2 checks totalling $10,000. She kept 3 and held on to the other check". Three of what?

The real question is why did he give her this money? Was it a personal gift to her in gratitude for his appreciation or did he expect her to use it for his care?

If it was a personal gift then it's hard to see how it would be wrong of her to accept it on that basis, especially if he has a substantially large estate. She should go ahead and cash it and then set the money aside and not spend it until the estate has finished being probated so she will know whether or not she has to return all or part of it to the executor only if the executor complains.

She should also visit the county courthouse probate court to see if she has been named as a beneficiary in this man's will.

DANDY DON IN OKLAHOMA (tiekh@yahoo.com)

Dandy Don,
In these cases, once a relative is notified of the death, the relatives become very interested in the estate. It's very sad, but it's so very true. The state of FL will look for a relative of the deceased to probate. Cashing the check is not the thing to do. Someone that needs money will not likely set it aside. I, too, noticed the discrepency in the number of checks. There's too many inappropriate actions that have happened. Hopefully, this nurse will not go to the deceased's home to look for a will. That's even more trouble.

 

[kellya127]

ok. to try to answer some questions......competency eval by a psychiatrist was done by Dr.'s orders at the nurse and social worker's request in order to determine if it would be a safe discharge. Everyone agreed it was ok. He was not a resident at the facility. He was in his home and was signing his own checks and making his own decisions until the very end. To clarify, there were 2 checks. One for 3,000 which she cashed and one for 7,000 which she held onto but at this point has been destroyed. She doesn't want it. He wanted to give her 10,000 but she accepted the 3 and 7 for later. It was a thank you gift. He was very grateful to be home. Thanks for all your input.