Need some legal advice dealing with union

[bspecialist_00]

What is the name of your state?Michigan
A friend of mine recently started working for UPS as a seasonal driver helper. He was doing it for some quick cash between school break. He was telling me that union took out like 40 bucks in union dues out of his check, even though he isn't in the union?? This doesnt sound right and I was hoping someone in here knows the facts. He doesn't get any benefits, not even a part time employee at that, why should he pay for dues for someone elses union? Anyways hes pissed, and actually this has me mad as well, i have a deep dislike for unions myself. Can someone please tell me if this is legal? Does UPS have to show proof of why the did it if its legal?? Please help. Thanks in advance.

 

[Beth3]

I can't speak to UPS in particular but I can tell you that many if not most union employers are "closed shop." That means the CBA (collective bargaining agreement) requires that an individual MUST join the union in order to be employed there. That assures the union of getting their dues from everyone who works there who's in the bargaining group, whether they want to join the union or not.

Your friend is free to verify with HR that this is the case but as I said, if it's a closed shop, he has no choice in the matter.

 

[bspecialist_00]

So does my friend have the right to be in the union? From my understanding he can't, and he sees no benefits that one who is in the union see? I don't think they will allow him to be in the union since hes seasonal, he would then have the same rights as other union members?

 

[bspecialist_00]

The Employer will provide a list of peak season employees to the Local Union. The Company agrees to honor the dues checkoff cards for peak season employees.

I think i found what you were saying, from what i gather from this statement(which was from the local contract) they can take dues?

 

[Beth3]

Your friend probably can't be forced to actually join the union but I expect he cannot opt out of paying dues even if he refuses to sign the membership card or take the oath or whatever it is they do. The union is far more interested in getting their money from each of your friend's paychecks than they are whether he's a bonafide member or not.

 

[Rae43]

You get the paycheck- because of the union

Michigan-

You may feel your friend is paying these dues unfairly. Part time workers are eligible to be represented by the Union. It's just that most places have a 90 day probationary period which makes it hard to represent a person because they are probationary. Remember the wages he gets were negotiated by the collective unity of the membership. He could be working a minimum wage job and make a whole lot less an hour than what he enjoys at UPS.

The best way to learn about unions is to attend the meetings and get involved, It's about helping each other achive workplace fairness and decent wages and benefits.

It's a hard concept to understand for people who think only of Right now and only of themselves.

 

[rachelsfx]

Oh, please

Michigan-

You may feel your friend is paying these dues unfairly. Part time workers are eligible to be represented by the Union. It's just that most places have a 90 day probationary period which makes it hard to represent a person because they are probationary. Remember the wages he gets were negotiated by the collective unity of the membership. He could be working a minimum wage job and make a whole lot less an hour than what he enjoys at UPS.

The best way to learn about unions is to attend the meetings and get involved, It's about helping each other achive workplace fairness and decent wages and benefits.

It's a hard concept to understand for people who think only of Right now and only of themselves.

I was in a union, a union steward, and saw how our union worked: money for the mass idiots in-charge, lobbying, etc. As far as protecting people, unions lose a lot because stewards are going up against sharks ("lawyers" or lawyer advised management). Rae might want to explain how the union loses 50% of grievances and more than 50% of arbitration cases. Why? I'll tell you. Union leaders get your dough, most are out for retirees (selling out the workers in the process), and haven't figured out that "unions" are the biggest problem a company faces when trying to survive in the global economy.

 

[John/nyc]

The closed shop is illegal.

The closed shop is against the law.

In the US there is legally no such thing as the closed shop!!!

 

[Rhubarb297]

The closed shop is illegal.

The closed shop is against the law.

In the US there is legally no such thing as the closed shop!!!

Ummm, no.

Well, first of all whether or not a state allows a closed shop is state specific. Some do, some don't. There most certainly isn't some kind of national law on the subject.

A "closed shop" means that in work establishments which have a closed shop they can require you to join the union in order to work at that facility.

You're wrong...several states allow closed shops, including my state Indiana. For example, in order to work at UPS in Indiana you have to join the Teamsters. (Unless they've changed that recently.)

 

[Rhubarb297]

What is the name of your state?Michigan
A friend of mine recently started working for UPS as a seasonal driver helper. He was doing it for some quick cash between school break. He was telling me that union took out like 40 bucks in union dues out of his check, even though he isn't in the union?? This doesnt sound right and I was hoping someone in here knows the facts. He doesn't get any benefits, not even a part time employee at that, why should he pay for dues for someone elses union? Anyways hes pissed, and actually this has me mad as well, i have a deep dislike for unions myself. Can someone please tell me if this is legal? Does UPS have to show proof of why the did it if its legal?? Please help. Thanks in advance.

Yes, that's the way it is in Indiana too. (Indiana allows closed shops which the UPS is in Indiana.) Even part-time UPS employees have to pay union dues and join the union. (The Teamsters.) So your friend isn't technically correct...he will be a member of the union after the 90 day or so probationary period.

It was such a rip-off in Indiana. The part-time package loaders just a few years ago were getting $8 per hour. They hadn't had a raise in almost 20 years and they got like a 10 minute break every four our shift. This was the deal the Teamsters negotiated for them? Terrible representation. Yet they took union dues from them. The Teamsters' focus is totally on the full-time employees of UPS.

 

[Rhubarb297]

Your friend probably can't be forced to actually join the union but I expect he cannot opt out of paying dues even if he refuses to sign the membership card or take the oath or whatever it is they do. The union is far more interested in getting their money from each of your friend's paychecks than they are whether he's a bonafide member or not.

It sounds like Michigan allows closed shops so yes he can be forced to join the union if he works there.

However, thanks to court rulings, the person can instruct the union that he only wants to pay a "fair share" of his dues instead of the full share. That means the union can't charge him for the portion of his dues which are used for political activity. Unions typically claim very little of the dues go for political activity when making this determination. They're not exactly very honest about the calculation.

 

[John/nyc]

Ummm, no.

Well, first of all whether or not a state allows a closed shop is state specific. Some do, some don't. There most certainly isn't some kind of national law on the subject.

A "closed shop" means that in work establishments which have a closed shop they can require you to join the union in order to work at that facility.

You're wrong...several states allow closed shops, including my state Indiana. For example, in order to work at UPS in Indiana you have to join the Teamsters. (Unless they've changed that recently.)

You are describing a "union shop," not a "closed shop." The closed shop (which required union membership BEFORE you are hired) was outlawed by the Taft-Hartley Act. A "union shop," which is closly related, requires union MEMBERSHIP on a majority vote, but, to the best of my knowledge such membership is not required prior to being hired .

 

[Rhubarb297]

You are describing a "union shop," not a "closed shop." The closed shop (which required union membership BEFORE you are hired) was outlawed by the Taft-Hartley Act. A "union shop," which is closly related, requires union MEMBERSHIP on a majority vote, but, to the best of my knowledge such membership is not required prior to being hired .

You're now trying to redefine "closed shop." No, a closed shop is exactly as I described it.

 

[John/nyc]

You're now trying to redefine "closed shop." No, a closed shop is exactly as I described it.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USAhartley.htm

http://www.bartleby.com/65/cl/closedsh.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_union#Shop_types

 

[John/nyc]

Your friend probably can't be forced to actually join the union but I expect he cannot opt out of paying dues even if he refuses to sign the membership card or take the oath or whatever it is they do. The union is far more interested in getting their money from each of your friend's paychecks than they are whether he's a bonafide member or not.

The Union, from my experience, would much prefer that a person become an active member rather than not.

I find it interesting that you don't know if one must "sign the membership card or take the oath or whatever it is they do," but you do know that " The union is far more interested in getting their money from each of your friend's paychecks than they are whether he's a bonafide member or not."
If you are unaware of union thinking in the first instance, then how did you come by your knowledge of union thinking in the second?

Unions did not support the legislation that created the situation wherein the union MUST represent the employee whether the union or employee wanted the relationship or not. Unions, forced by law to represent employees who are non-members, don't think it is unreasonable to collect the dues which pays for that representation.