need someone to point us in the right direction on TPR

[carofl93]

What is the name of your state? Florida

Here's the background: My hubby is the primary physical custodian of his daughter,7. Mom has made no contact with her daughter since 28 April of this year. Mom has moved and we have no address or phone number...mail sent to the last address we have is returned with no forwarding address. Mom is hiding out from the Child Support folks and has lost her FL drivers license...CS case is currently in review pending contempt charges. We've talked to SD about her mom's disappearing act, and she has told both hubby and me that I am her mom because I haven't disappeared on her.
We've searched the Florida Statutes online, and looked at the nccanch site, and have found absolutely nothing to help us with TPR. Is there somewhere else we can look? We just paid off our attorney for the custody case and would like to do a lot of the footwork ourselves to save money.
Thank you in advance, and thank you for reading through this mess.

 

[gphjr]

I don't understand why you need a TPR. You know she is hiding out not to pay CS, If she comes back then get an address and report her. What you can do is go back to court and get supervised visits. She won't show you'll win. When she does suface she will have supervised visits and won't be able to steal the child. then you may be able to find out where she is. If she has a scheduled visit when she does surface then you can call the police and have them come over and arrest her for none support.

 

[carofl93]

We want closure. I know this sounds harsh, but we want that woman out of all of our lives. As for visitation, there is no visitation for mom because she has to go see the Judge and post a cash bond (I believe it's $5000) that will cover travel costs for my hubby and stepdaughter, plus the funds for tracking her down. She did have the opportunity after our last hearing to see her daughter, and she stood up her then 6 year old child simply because it was a supervised visit. We seriously doubt we'll ever see a dime of the support money or the $7000 in legal fees she owes us. My stepdaughter, after being ignored by her mother for 9 months has little desire to see her mom, especially because we helped her write her mom a letter before mom moved the first time asking for a telephone call (we put in a prepaid calling card as well) or a letter (again, we put in preaddressed, prestamped postcards and envelopes) and she heard absolutely nothing from mom. It's just an icky situation.

 

[hexeliebe]

I am not going to get into the moral issues involved in your case because Florida Law is very specific on who can file a TPR and when it can be filed?

But, before I give you the exact citation I need to know a few things.

HOW have you tried to find the mother?

How long have you searched?

Has the court tried to find her?

 

[gphjr]

I hear you on the closure part. Such a deadbeat she is. My opinion is as long as she has to post a bond before seeing the child, you won't see her again (assuming you have an order stating that from a judge) Hex is going to provide you with the abstract of the FL law on TPRs. Thanks for allowing me to be nosey. Good Luck and try to ahve happy holidays.

 

[cookie57]

First thing, you should attempt at looking at TPR for your step-daughter, not yourselves. Secondly, there will never be "closure". TPR will not erase her biology and that will always be her mother. One day, she is going to want to know her.

 

[hexeliebe]

I'm still waiting carol. If you don't care enough to come back and answer the questions then why should I care if you get the information you are looking for?

 

[carofl93]

Here are your answers Hex, and TY

HOW have you tried to find the mother? We requested information using the Freedom of Information Act and were sent a denial for information due to the 9-11 tragedy from the US Navy. We do know where her husband is stationed, and on which ship he is serving. We have contacted the Navy JAG office on the base as well as the NIS office in DC. Still waiting on replies from them. We have used US Search and got 2 different addresses along with her old address. We have asked her mother in law where they are since all of their mail was forwarded to her house. She claims to know nothing. We have asked friends if they know where she is, and they also refuse to tell us. We mailed a huge packet of SD's school work and her report card to the mother in law's address, and it was forwarded to another state (VA) and lucky us, it is now lost. We requested their forwarding address from the USPS using the Freedom of Information Act because we are planning to file a civil suit to recoup legal fees and got one of their many addresses. We are waiting on yet another address from the USPS, and were told by a very kind employee in VA that all of their mail had been forwarded yet again to the ship her husband is serving on (currently in dry dock).

How long have you searched? We have been searching for her since May of this year with no avail.

Has the court tried to find her? She is supposed to give her new address to the court here in FL, but has never updated it since the mail had been forwarded to her mother in law. The folks down at Child Support Enforcement have been sending all of their forms to the mother in law's address.

Please let me know if you need any more info Hex. And thank you again.

Cookie,
We do want this for our stepdaughter's sake. We don't want her to forget that she does indeed have a mother, but it hurts her to know that the "mommy" part of her mother just doesn't care anymore. I am doing my best to be the stand in for her once loving mommy.



__________________

 

[cookie57]

We want closure. I know this sounds harsh, but we want that woman out of all of our lives.

This sentence sounds like your motives are more for yourself than your sd. Now you may get some closure from a TPR, but your sd never will. On one hand, you want "that woman" out of your lives, but yet you still want your sd to know she has a mother. It's one or the other. Don't let your opinions of the ex, affect your sd's attitude towards her. Sooner or later she is going to want to know her, and you could end up the one she blames later on down the road.
It has been 8 months since mom had contact. Most states require a minimum of 1 year without contact and/or support.

 

[snostar]

If you have a lawyer and/or another court date scheduled an earlier post of mine may help you locate her........

Getting military records - how I DID IT!
https://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=165111

State subpeonas, and the FIA mean nothing to the military!

 

[monnickasmommy]

You can contact the the Office of Childrens Issues Office in Washington - They can do MORE than anything-

If you need there address and telephone # let me know I have it all . that is how we located our/my stepdaughter - her mom thought she could run and hide no such luck !

 

[tigger22472]

I have held back from responding to this thread. For those of you that know me you know that TPR is something I feel strongly about. It's not that I'm against it... hell, that would be hypocritical for I am going for it soon myself. However, I am APPALLED that it seems to be the new FAD and how it seems to be taken so lightly.

First off I have a problem with a 7 year old making this decision on her own!!! Secondly, it has only been 8 months and all resourses of finding mom have NOT been done. Just because the law says "one year no contact, no support" doesnt' mean that on day 366 everyone should run to get a TPR. ADOPTION does NOT erase biology and adoption of a step-child that KNOWS there is another parent is way more sensitive then the adoption of say a baby.

My children are 13 and 10 and we are JUST now(within the next few months) going to talk to a lawyer. My oldest child was 9 when my ex and I divorced and he had the hardest thinking about this. However, their father and I have been separated for 4 years... and he hasn't seen his father or talked to him in over 2 years. I know where he is, I've sent him letters and he doesnt' respond. He's been given the chance, just as I'm sure the OP will say this mom was. BUT... again I think 7 year olds shouldn't be making these decisions and it sounds as SM just wants mom out of the picture so they can be a "happy little family." I'm sorry but out here in the real world there is divorce, parent visitation, child support and obligations... it's not a 'happy little world' .. it's called reality and this is what we face when there is a divorce and children.

 

[carofl93]

Cookie and Tigger,
Mom is out of the picture, but it's getting harder and harder to keep lying to SD about why she doesn't call or write. Gee, would another 10 years of telling her that Mom is busy or broke be any better than cutting the already broken bond. I know I am bitter and selfish, but this family has been through so much in so little time, and Mom's abandonment is only the icing on the cake. SD is a very bright child, and she knows what is going on. As for SD's decision on the adoption, her therapist is the one who brought it up in our weekly family session. My hat is off to you Tigger, for being able to deal with your exe's abandonment of your kids for so long. As for SD blaming me later on down the road for losing her mom, I will be able to deal with that when the time comes. I just dont understand why this woman who once told me that SD was "her life and reason for being put on this earth" could simply turn her back and walk away. I have my own child and I can't even imagine what it would be like to leave one day and never come back. I'm sorry if I went out on a tangent here, but this is something that Hubby and I have been discussing, and there is going to be much more discussion before anything is done regarding the TPR...we are not going into this lightly. Again, I do not mean to offend anyone here.

MonnickasMommy,
I found the website for the Office of Children's Issues and we will be in contact with them...Thank you for that info.

Snostar,
Hubby is going to call the JAG office up in Norfolk and light a fire under them this morning. We also wrote a letter that is in the mailbox right now that is addressed to Mom...it will probably come back just like everything else, but what's the cost of a stamp.

Thank you all so very much for your opinions....you have all given us different insights into this situation, and more fodder for the discussions we will have while trying to figure out what to do. I hope I haven't offended anyone.

Carol

 

[tigger22472]

I would like to go find this counselor and personally kick her ass!! And I'm being serious!! For her/him to even suggest to a 7 year old that their mothers rights could be taken away is appalling to me. At 13 and 10 even NOW my children I don't think fully understand the difference between something being morally right or legally right.
Carol, yes, I've dealt with this from my ex for nearly the four years we've been divorced. Let me give you a low down first then I will continue.

We separated in Nov. of 99.. he saw them ONCE for a few hours in Dec. In Jan support was order and he saw them two weeks(with a weekend in between with me) before moving out the state. In April of that year I called asking if he would take them for Spring break.. he took them for 5 days. He was to have a month straight in the summer and backed out THE DAY he was to come and get them. He saw them EOW from Oct of 2000-Dec. of 2000 with me doing all the transportation. He saw them once in Jan. 01, once in April 01, both for just a few hours. In July of 01 he had them for ONE night and that is the last they saw him. There was NO contact until April 02 in which I got a message to him and he called my house.

In between there was little contact and when there was it was full of promises of coming and getting them or telling them that it was MY fault he didn't see them. I handled each incident with logic and NEVER EVER EVER lied to my children. When they asked why he didn't love them I would tell them that would be a question they would have to ask him if and when they did see him again. That was something I could not answer. Rarely now do they even talk of him at all so time has healed things.

In April of 01 my youngest boy was 8 at the time and told me he wanted my b/f and I to get married so he would be his dad and his daughter his sister. I explained to him that we didn't have to be married for him to feel in his heart that was his sister or his 'true' dad. He asked the following day and from then on started calling my now dh Dad. A piece of paper doesn't make a parent... the love in the heart does.

Now, as I said I AM going for TPR soon. This is after a long hard search within myself to make this decision and knowing that my decision for this will NEVER ever erase biology. My children have been very involved with this decision and have been told that if they didn't agree it WOULD NOT be done. However, I waited way longer then 9 months to discuss this with them and they were way older then 7. Children bounce back and accept things way more then we give them credit for. Do I support deadbeats?? HELL NO.. Do I support or pity people that are obligated to support their kids? NO but I also know that in the end TPR is a MAJOR decision that CAN NOT be taken lightly.

If in the end you make the decision to continue with TPR I wish you luck but I truly TRULY TRULY hope you give this a lot of thought before you do this.

 

[hexeliebe]

O.K. now that I am back in front of my computer I see we've been active on this thread. before I get to the real issue let's discuss some other things that have occurred in my absence.

her therapist is the one who brought it up in our weekly family session.

This therapist should be reported to the State Mental Health association and the AMA. This is grounds that the therapist has no right to cover and I would be surprised if he/she isn't sanctioned on ethics grounds.

I would also not allow my stepdaughter to return to this therapist. PERIOD!

However, I am APPALLED that it seems to be the new FAD and how it seems to be taken so lightly.

Well Tig, you aren't alone. It seems that TPR has replaced Prada and the new 'thing'. But, the laws were put there for a reason and this is one of the rare cases where the poster hasn't come here without some foundation for her questions.

And that's exactly why I asked the questions I did. You'll see soon.

Secondly, it has only been 8 months and all resourses of finding mom have NOT been done. Just because the law says "one year no contact, no support" doesnt' mean that on day 366 everyone should run to get a TPR. ADOPTION does NOT erase biology and adoption of a step-child that KNOWS there is another parent is way more sensitive then the adoption of say a baby.

While I agree that the ramifications for a child who knows they have a parent is different than one that never knew, I also feel that to prolong the uncertainty of the situation of the child never knowing if "mom" will contact her or even cares if she is alive or dead can only grow more painful.

And if the existing parents who are there everyday to care for this child do not take positive steps to show the child that she is loved and they want her as a part of their family, in every way, then those feelings of abandonment are soon transferred.

Now, that being said, here is the applicable law for Florida.

Fla. Stat. Ann. § 39.806 (West, WESTLAW through End of 2001 1st Reg. Sess.)

The department, the guardian ad litem, or any person who has knowledge of the facts alleged or who is informed of those facts and believes that they are true, may petition for the termination of parental rights under any of the following circumstances:

When the parent or parents have voluntarily executed a written surrender of the child and consented to the entry of an order giving custody of the child to the department for subsequent adoption and the department is willing to accept custody of the child;

Abandonment or when the identity or location of the parent or parents is unknown and cannot be ascertained by diligent search within 60 days;

When the parent or parents engaged in conduct toward the child or toward other children that demonstrates that the continuing involvement of the parent or parents in the parent-child relationship threatens the life, safety, well-being, or physical, mental, or emotional health of the child irrespective of the provision of services. Provision of services may be evidenced by proof that services were provided through a previous plan or offered as a case plan from a child welfare agency;

Read the above and you'll know that Florida, unlike most states, only requires a 'diligent search within 60 days' of the filing of the Petition to Terminate Parental Rights.

Keep in mind, this is only a right to FILE the petition. The mother may still oppose it, the courts may deny it or any number of things could happen. However, you are now within the 'window' to file the Petition.

Only you can know if you're doing the right thing. I hope for the child's sake that you are.