New info about ex lying about income

[KK1124]

What is the name of your state? North Carolina/ Virginia CS order

Ex retired from Navy in 2003 & had modification hearing to reduce support based on his retired pay. He falsely reported his pension as only $800 per month. Judge repeatedly asked him if this was GROSS, before any deductions. He, under oathe, said YES. Child support was set in place for 3 children based on the figures he reported. This case was heard in Virginia where he was living @ the time. He's now in CT, I'm in NC, but the order is still in VA. We went to CT last month to have the support modified after 4 years to have my oldest child removed and to have the order entered into the state he currently resides.
WELL, it came out in court that since his retirement, he's been paying back the Navy for an overpayment of $20,000. He accepted this overpayment, spent the money, enjoyed the money and it was being deducted from his pay since 2003, therefore proving he lied about his GROSS income to the judge in 2003. Had he reported his correct gross income from Navy of approx. $1367, the support would have been calculated differently. He also told the judge he was paying $80 per month for Dental insurance, but dropped that 3 months after the support was established, without going through the court to do so.

My question.....this information just came available to me after 4 years. Can I go back to Virginia now and sue him for the difference? I understand it was set in place 4 years ago, but I just found out last month he was lying about his income back then.

Thanks,
KK1124What is the name of your state?

 

[Zephyr]

when reconfiguring the amounts make sure the accurate income is used.....I doubt you have any recourse for the past payments

 

[nextwife]

If he's repaying an OVERPAYMENT, then what he received was not the correct amount and he is repaying those funds. What was the amount he was ACTUALLY entitled to receive? He should not be paying CS on money he can't keep AS INCOME and must repay.

 

[KK1124]

Nextwife, without the re-payment, he would have been receiving $1367 gross per month.
IMO, the repayment is no different than paying on a loan, mortgage, credit card, vehicle, etc. Gross is gross and whatever deductions he has coming out, unless it's an acceptable deduction such as taxes, union dues, etc, it should have to be considered. Had he not accepted the overpayment from the gov't or brought it to their attention before it accumulated to $20,000, then he would have been receiving that money after retirement and would have to report it for child support.
He's paying the government for money he's already spent, just like a loan.

 

[nextwife]

And if he borrowed $50,000 and had to repay it, he would NOT owe CS on that $50,000 because it was not actually income.

Also, if I saved $20,000 into regular savings years before I had children, then lived off some of the money last year, that I had earned and paid taxes on back when, that money is also not "income" now. I was income when I first earned it, not when I spend it (the exception being 401k or IRA, which did not count as income and was witheld before taxes).

 

[KK1124]

You're right, he would not owe on that if it was borrowed from a bank.
HOWEVER, if he didn't receive the money then, he would be receiving it now and would have to report it as income. Therefore, the money he has to payback, is actually money he already received and never claimed as income for child support purposes.

Gross pay is BEFORE any deductions come out. His gross pay is $1367. Then the gov't is going to take taxes and their repayment from that and deposit his NET income into the bank every month and that is what he reported to the judge as GROSS. He was specifically asked in court is this your GROSS pay before ANY deductions, such as taxes, disability, insurance, etc? He said YES and now I find out last month about the pay back to the governement has been coming out of his check since 2003.

 

[nextwife]

A repayment of overpaid income is not specifically addressed in the CS guidelines to my knowledge, but a rational review of what should be considered "gross" would be money paid to him minus repayment, but before taxes and retirement deductions. So what is his gross if the repayment is deducted? If the $1367, then he was incorrect in his reporting.

 

[CJane]

He was specifically asked in court is this your GROSS pay before ANY deductions, such as taxes, disability, insurance, etc? He said YES and now I find out last month about the pay back to the governement has been coming out of his check since 2003.

And if it was actually asked in EXACTLY that manner, what you have (at least what it would easily be shown that you have) is a man who was asked a fairly specific question and gave a possibly incorrect answer. You'd have to PROVE he committed fraud or perjury and wasn't just mistaken about what 'Gross' means.

It would be a seriously uphill battle and probably wouldn't have made a HUGE difference in CS back then anyway.

 

[SingleMom67]

I'm interested to know what paperwork he had in court to prove his lower (retirement) income. I find it hard to believe the judge just took his word for it. Or, if so, you allowed that.

 

[KK1124]

CJane,

He was asked 3 times by the judge (as if the judge didn't believe him) to verify $800 is his gross pension from the Navy before any deductions are being taken out. When in fact, his gross @ that time was $1367, and $800 was all that was left after the gov't took their money back.

He's not a stupid person, he knows the difference between gross & net...he also has tried like hell to keep all his money to himself for 10 years.

 

[Silverplum]

I agree with NW.

 

[KK1124]

SingleMom67...we had expense sheets to fill out and hand in to the judge. He calculated the support based on these and did not require proof from either of us. That's just how it's done in Virginia, or so it's how it's done in Hampton & Chesapeake...without going through this before, I didn't know procedure and know to question the judge's methods.

We were in CT last month and it's been continued until this month to give him time to consult an attorney because he works 40 hours, plus has his military pension and he didn't want the magistrate to calculate his pension into the child support. She recommended he speak with an attorney about his concerns and continued the case until Aug. 13. They also require expense sheets filled out prior to seeing the magistrate and use these in court.
When the attorney for the state started verifying his expense sheet, he was removed from the court room to re-do his paperwork. They are pending 3 different scenarios when we go back. First is his fulltime job, plus full pension. Second is fulltime job, plus pension less the repayment. Third is his fulltime job only. According to CT law & what's a permissable deduction, repayment to the government is not a permissable deduction when calculating child support. The guardian ad litem for the children is requesting fulltime job plus complete pension be considered as CT law does not allow for such deductions. We'll see how it turns out.


Silverplum....You don't know me and you don't know the life I've lived and had to provide the best I can for 3 children. Ex hasn't been in their lives except maybe once per year on a major holiday. Child support is paid when he feels like it. I had to help my oldest with college, but her dad couldn't be bothered. He lives high on the hog, while the kids get only what I can afford. You're a rude person. I have one vehichle that's 14 years old and paid for, live in a mobile home and work fulltime while trying to raise the kids. He lives in a huge 2 story house, has a boat, motor home, 2 motor cycles, corvette "show car" and his truck. He goes to Nascar races all over the country, but can't take time to see his kids. I'm extremely patient and love my kids and want to make sure they get all they are entitled to. He can have all the material possessions in the world, but I have the love & respect of my children and for that I'm most grateful.

 

[Silverplum]

You don't know me and you don't know the life I've lived and had to provide the best I can for 3 children.

sniffle!

Ex hasn't been in their lives except maybe once per year on a major holiday.

That's his option and, I presume, his loss.

Child support is paid when he feels like it.

You had and have legal options for that. Did you use them?

I had to help my oldest with college, but her dad couldn't be bothered.

sniffle!

He lives high on the hog, while the kids get only what I can afford.

sniffle!

You're a rude person.

Why? Because I told you how you came across onscreen? And the implication is that you may come across that way IRL, and to a judge? Therefore, I am rude. You have minimal thought processes and ability to reason, but that's to be expected.

I have one vehichle that's 14 years old and paid for, live in a mobile home and work fulltime while trying to raise the kids. He lives in a huge 2 story house, has a boat, motor home, 2 motor cycles, corvette "show car" and his truck. He goes to Nascar races all over the country, but can't take time to see his kids.

sniffle!

Or, you could've given him custody. Didn't wanna do that? Then live with the choice you made and stop whining.

I'm extremely patient and love my kids and want to make sure they get all they are entitled to. He can have all the material possessions in the world, but I have the love & respect of my children and for that I'm most grateful.

This is the paragraph you should've written all along.

 

[LdiJ]

And if he borrowed $50,000 and had to repay it, he would NOT owe CS on that $50,000 because it was not actually income.

Also, if I saved $20,000 into regular savings years before I had children, then lived off some of the money last year, that I had earned and paid taxes on back when, that money is also not "income" now. I was income when I first earned it, not when I spend it (the exception being 401k or IRA, which did not count as income and was witheld before taxes).

Nextwife, I think that you are misinterpreting what she is saying. You are absolutely correct that if you borrowed 50k and had to pay it back, that the 50k wouldn't be income to you.

However, if your regular pay was being garnished for the debt, because you defaulted on the loan terms, that would not reduce your regular gross income by the amount of the garnishment. That is basically what is happening in this case. He is having his regular pension garnished for a previous overpayment.

 

[Ohiogal]

At one time was CS being based on the amount he was being overpaid?