No more than $2000? YIKES!

[gr8minds]

What is the name of your state? NH

I read a previous post that stated "Anything over $2,000.00 is subject to "execution, levy, attachment, garnishment".

What was I thinking? Here's my situation. My 73 yr old Mom has found herself in major financial difficulty. Not only is she on limited income (ss, VA survivors benefits, small pt job) but she is legally blind and just wasn't able to read all the late notices, warnings, etc. She finally admitted to me that she was in trouble and wanted my help. I pulled her credit report and she is over $30,000 in credit card debt. She begged me to try to do the bankruptcy myself to avoid paying an attorney and most importantly, avoid the embarassment and shame she feels.

So, here's where the "what was I thinking" part comes in. I've already filed a skeleton bankruptcy and have about 10 days left before I have to file the remainder of the paperwork. We have the 341 meeting scheduled for 9/30. I now find out a couple of things. My mom has 6-7000 in the bank at any given time. My mom just got a check for $1400 from a loan she took out on her $5000 life insurance policy. I told her not to cash it, obviously. What the heck do I do now? She really needs the money in her account as I am moving her and my family to Florida next spring so I'll have help from siblings with her. I wish I had just made her go to an attorney but it's too late for that now. Any help would be appreciated. YIKES!

 

[JETX]

What is the name of your state? NH

I read a previous post that stated "Anything over $2,000.00 is subject to "execution, levy, attachment, garnishment".

What was I thinking? Here's my situation. My 73 yr old Mom has found herself in major financial difficulty. Not only is she on limited income (ss, VA survivors benefits, small pt job) but she is legally blind and just wasn't able to read all the late notices, warnings, etc. She finally admitted to me that she was in trouble and wanted my help. I pulled her credit report and she is over $30,000 in credit card debt. She begged me to try to do the bankruptcy myself to avoid paying an attorney and most importantly, avoid the embarassment and shame she feels.

So, here's where the "what was I thinking" part comes in. I've already filed a skeleton bankruptcy and have about 10 days left before I have to file the remainder of the paperwork. We have the 341 meeting scheduled for 9/30. I now find out a couple of things. My mom has 6-7000 in the bank at any given time. My mom just got a check for $1400 from a loan she took out on her $5000 life insurance policy. I told her not to cash it, obviously. What the heck do I do now? She really needs the money in her account as I am moving her and my family to Florida next spring so I'll have help from siblings with her. I wish I had just made her go to an attorney but it's too late for that now. Any help would be appreciated. YIKES!

You aren't going to like this one, but:

Your mother has (presumably) enjoyed the benefit of the things she bought on credit, correct??
And she apparently has SOME money coming in (your post said she has "6-7000 in the bank at any given time"). Certainly doesn't sound like a destitute old woman, does it??

Why not use THAT money to pay the creditors??? Seems pretty simple to me.

I also find your statement IMPLYING that you are going to need that money to move her AND YOUR family to Florida, kind of interesting. Why are you planning on using HER money to move YOUR FAMILY to Florida..... and stick the rest of us (taxpayers and bill-payers) with HER debts??

Sorry, but based solely on the information in your post, I have little sympathy for someone who has money to pay at least PART of there creditors and simply doesn't because it isn't 'convenient'.
I also see what I think is the REAL reason you decided to do this yourself.... an attorney would NOT support this filing as you present it. And if you are completely honest in your filing, hopefully the court won't either!!


Go ahead, flame suit is on and ready!!

 

[gr8minds]

You're right... and not

I can appreciate how you came to the conclusions you did. Please allow me to clarify a few things. First, I will not be using ANY of my Mom's money to move my family. My neice and her husband (w/child and another on the way) are taking out a mortgage on a mobile home for my mother so she will have a place to live. Her credit is shot and can't get financing for anything. So, my mother will be paying the down payment, park fees, any work that needs to be done on the mobile home, etc. The credit debt was incurred following my father's death 13 years ago. No longer was she receiving his pension.. just a portion of it. Her credit cards were used for everything from food and clothing, to medication and doctor visits (as you know, there is a major crisis in this country concerning health care and medication benefits for the elderly.) Her prescriptions alone cost her nearly $300 per month.

She owns no property, has nothing of value. Should she have been more responsible with her credit cards over the years? Certainly. However, it is too late for that now. Her debt is in excess of $30,000. Six thousand dollars in a bank account is NOT a lot of money. She is 73, legally blind and can not, and should not work any longer. Should she be forced to surrender the only money she has to pay just a fraction of her debt? This would leave her with nothing. Absolutely nothing. The only reason I am moving her to Florida is for a better life for her surrounded by family.

I guess my question is two-fold. Should I have her withdraw some of her money? Possibly send a check to my neice for her future housing? If not, will it look as if she has enough money to pay on some of the debt?

I hope you have a better understanding of the situation now. Thank you!

 

[JETX]

This keeps getting more and more 'interesting'.

"My neice and her husband (w/child and another on the way) are taking out a mortgage on a mobile home for my mother so she will have a place to live."
*** And will the niece and husbands names be on the TITLE to the mobile home? Or will your mother since she is providing all the money??

In your original post, you said, "My mom has 6-7000 in the bank at any given time."
Now, your post says, "Should she be forced to surrender the only money she has to pay just a fraction of her debt?"
*** The 'at any given time' implies that her running balance is about that.... and NOT that it is the only money she has.

Your post says that she HAS income ("ss, VA survivors benefits, small pt job") so she does have SOME cash flow. Why not sell off all her assets in NH, put it with the money that she has in the bank and at least try to negotiate some type of settlement with the creditors. If she is really as destitute as you imply AND if they believe it, they will very likely settle for a lesser amount than owed. And pay off what can be paid. Then, if there is any money left, THEN decide what to do. Heck, she might even have to move in with you or your niece. Personally, I wouldn't let my 73 year old, blind mother live on her own in a new trailer in a new state anyway!!

 

[gr8minds]

I guess you can't fully understand the situation, and I appreciate that. My niece's name will be on the title. My mom is only providing 2-3000 as my niece does NOT have the money for a downpayment. No one has any room for my Mom to live. I'm a renter and will probably be a renter in Florida until I can get on my feet as well. Subsidized senoir housing is not an option until she is a resident of Florida for at least 6 months. This seems to be our only choice.

Mother's monthly income will decrease to $1700 per month when she quits her job. Many seniors are worse off than that, I know. However, medical costs, rent, park fees, utilities, etc will not leave her with very much money each month. Should she eat dog food to save money so she can pay off her debts? Should she not dine out occasionally or buy grandchildren birthday gifts? My Dad was a 100% disabled veteran. Mom took care of him for 40 years before he died. Doesn't she deserve to live decently? Let me reiterate.. she does not own ANYTHING of value. She has a television, loveseat, rocking chair, a bedroom set and clothing.

Oh, and one other thing. I don't appreciate being made to sound cruel. My mother is not totally blind. She just can't see well enough to read, drive, etc. She is very capable of living independently and insists that she does. For now, anyway. She does have some pride, in spite of her poor judgement with her credit cards.

My question was still not answered, only opinions given. I guess I will just have her drain her account so I can put minimal money on the bankruptcy paperwork. She will need the money to move what little belongings she has and can not settle a $30,000 debt with $6000 only to be left with nothing. In the world that I live in, $6000 is not a lot of money.

Although I respect JETX's opinions, I would appreciate advice from other forum members as well.

If nothing else, this message board has allowed me to get out some of my frustrations! Thanks.

 

[HomeGuru]

And my opinion is that I agree with JETX's opinion.

 

[Ladynred]

You guys must not have elderly parents.......

 

[bigun]

Wow, you have a brewing disaster on your hands.
I'd suggest 2 things. Get an appointment with a local lawyer and see if he/she thinks this thing may be saved.
If not, ask about dropping the petition and moving Mom to Fl. PDQ and wait a year or so and refile.

 

[JETX]

Simpy, we agree to disagree.

You, have a vested reason to see this as a way out of the debt with some pluses for the rest of the family (move to Florida, niece gets trailer with Mom's money- remember she qualifies for residence in 6 months, etc.) and will continue to see it in your perspective.

The rest of us (figuratively) who see lots of people with far less trying to take care of THEIR debts and obligations and considering bankruptcy as a true LAST resort.... will get stuck with paying her debts for her (in higher prices) and pay increased taxes (to support the bankruptcy system).

Personally, I hope that the bankruptcy court sees this for what it really APPEARS to be.... a person with several thousand dollars in the bank who finds it 'inconvenient' to pay fore the debts that SHE voluntarily incurred.

 

[JETX]

You guys must not have elderly parents.......

Yes I do but that has NOTHING to do with this issue.

And thank you, my Dad is 83 years old and in good health.

And if he were in this exact same situation, facing large debts with a few thousand dollars in the bank and $1700 per month income, your darn right I would suggest the same thing for him. But he pays his bills and lives within his means.

 

[Ladynred]

Lucky you, your Dad's in good health, count your blessings !

My mother is 85, a widow, her health isn't so great, she's in an assisted living community and for the most part stuck in a wheel chair. Her meds ALONE cost her almost $700 a month and all she gets is a small SS check. Fortunately, she is NOT under a mountain of debt, she never carried a balance on any credit card in her life. This woman sold her home of 50 years, in NY where she'd lived her entire life, and moved to SC at age 81 for health and economic reasons (NY taxes !). All the money she has is from the sale of the house (which had been paid off about 30 years ago). If it weren't for my brother's investment savvy making her some money off of what she has left, she could be in some disgusting medicare-paid nursing home - as she absolutely REFUSES to live with any of us. Old folks are very stubborn, as you may know. Fortunately for her, the 5 of us would NEVER let my mother live in one of those horrid nursing homes.

I CAN sympathize with the OP's situation and not wanting to leave her mother completey penniless.. which is where she would be by trying to settle out these debts. If any of these debts are 'fresh' there's simply no way creditors are going to settle 30K in debt for a mere 6K.. and you guys know it. Paying off one or 2 will only goad the rest of the vampires into harrassing her even more, if not suing her.

Gr8minds - I have to agree with Bigun, either find a lawyer and see if this can be salvaged, or dismiss the bankrupcy and move her, asap.

Giving money to her neice for the mobile home now would not be looked upon very favorably by the BK court. IF the 2K limit DOES apply to her benefits in the bank, then the Trustee is going to take the other 4-5K anyway to give to creditors, so she still ends up in the same boat (no backup funds) and you guys get the 'satisfaction' that SOME of that money went to pay her bills.

My question however, is how OLD are these debts ?? Has she been paying them all along or had she stopped ?? NH has a nice, short Statute of Limitations for credit cards - 3 years. Its possible she could avoid the vultures long anough for that SOL to run out. FL has a FOUR year SOL, so moving her to FL won't be adding much to the risk. Email me if you'd like

 

[Ladynred]

NH exemptions

I did some digging in the NH Statutes and there MAY be a way for your mother to keep her money.

Here are the NH Exemptions from the statutes:

?511:2 Exemptions. – The following goods and property are exempted from attachment and execution:

I. The wearing apparel necessary for the use of the debtor and the debtor's family.

II. Comfortable beds, bedsteads and bedding necessary for the debtor, the debtor's spouse and children.

III. Household furniture to the value of $3,500.

IV. One cook stove, one heating stove and one refrigerator and necessary utensils belonging to the same.

V. One sewing machine, kept for use by the debtor or the debtor's family.

VI. Provisions and fuel to the value of $400.

VII. The uniform, arms and equipments of every officer and private in the militia.

VIII. The Bibles, school books and library of any debtor, used by the debtor or the debtor's family, to the value of $800.

IX. Tools of the debtor's occupation to the value of $5,000.

X. One hog and one pig, and the pork of the same when slaughtered.

XI. Six sheep and the fleeces of the same.

XII. One cow; a yoke of oxen or a horse, when required for farming or teaming purposes or other actual use; and hay not exceeding 4 tons.

XIII. Domestic fowls not exceeding $300 in value.

XIV. The debtor's interest in one pew in any meetinghouse in which the debtor or the debtor's family usually worship.

XV. The debtor's interest in one lot or right of burial in any cemetery.

XVI. One automobile to the value of $4,000.

XVII. Jewelry owned by the debtor or the debtor's family to the value of $500.

****XVIII. The debtor's interest in any property, not to exceed $1,000 in value, plus up to $7,000 of any unused amount of the exemptions provided under paragraphs III, VI, VIII, IX, XVI, and XVII of this section.****"

Now, what I *think* could be the important piece here is # 18 regarding " up to $7000 of any unused amount of the exemptions..."

I'd be willing to bet that your mother won't need ALL those exemptions and she can use up to $7,000 of those UNUSED exemptions for ANY PROPERTY. There's 4K alone for the vehicle exemption !

I suggest you see an attorney ASAP and find out if this IS a way to exempt the money she has in the bank. I haven't found any $ limitations, $2000 or otherwise, for 'public benefits'. You need to find out right away if that means there IS no limit. IAAL's 2K limit most likely was not based on NH law.

 

[WorryWort]

I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this

What an awful situation to be faced with and I feel for you. I hope everything works out for you and your mother.

You said one thing though that I want to point out... your Mom would have to be a resident for 6 months before she can go into assisted living... assuming that is what you are going to do with her... why bother with the hassle and expense of getting a mobile home? I know she doesn't want to move in with family, but maybe if she realizes it's only for 6 months, she'll be more agreeable... ?

Good luck to you.

 

[JETX]

ahhhh, but you are missing the point. When 'mom' goes into an assisted living center.... the mobile home is in the neices name and she can sell or move in..... paid for with the money that could have been used to pay the debts!!!

That is just one of the things that 'set me' on this one.

 

[dcw888]

I am sorry to hear about your Mother's troubles. It totally amazes me how so well prepared some are &/or are so lucky never to have had any trouble befall the ones they love.

My Mother passed away a few years ago & had lived with me for the last 12 years of her life. She too had owned her home outright but had become disabled due to age. She sold her home because she couldn't afford the insurance, taxes & upkeep. It brought less than $17,000.00, but between that & her Social Security, she managed to pay her own way, as far as clothing, food, medicines & doctors, ( I gladly made up the difference). The last year she lived, the medicines were $70.00 more a month than her SS check & it hurt her pride so much to become more & more depended on me.

The amount you are talking about wouldn't pay for one day's stay in the hospital. I don't blame you one bit & wish you luck. It is a very sad state of affairs that our elderly are being forced to depend on the "kindness" of others, esp. when there doesn't seem to be any. Yet, I wonder, if some of those who are so fortunate to have socked away more aren't someday going to have to depend on the same kindness?

Good Luck to you & her.