Not so much legal ... question about 13yo "extended visits"

[wileybunch]

LOL Humusluvr, love it!

OK, here's where things are.
DH has an appt w/an attorney on Thursday to take ex to court over whatever action seems appropriate given all this and there has been a few issues of contempt since last contempt hearing.

However, he persisted with his ex's emails today about these sleep issues. And, he picked DD up at noon and brought her back to work and then they did a little shopping then she went off to adjacent mall by herself for a while so he talked to her about the sleep issues. Mom swears it's all tied to dad, it's all about homesickness, only answer is to stop or shorten visits, etc. Daughter says her mind races, she can't shut it off. She gets frustrated b/c she knows she needs to sleep, but sleep doesn't come. She says she's the same way at home. She says she will often sleep with her mom the night before she comes for visits, but not afterwards so it's not 2 nights before and 2 after b/c of how traumatized she is. Quite frankly, I think it's sweet she wants to sleep with her mom if she's going to spend a few nights away. My kids would want the same thing (they would sleep with us every chance they could). Mom had to twist it into something else.

So DH has asked that they take her to a doctor together to see what's going on, maybe it's ADHD or something like that, that DD has a lot of responsibilities and activities and he hates to know that she's suffering with this at times. So we'll see what his ex says.

He's pretty upset that his ex has let this go on for so long, almost as if she enjoys her DD's struggles so she has something to throw in DH's face. I just hope this was the bridge that needed to be crossed to get her some help (the older adult kids also have issues that are on the order of ADHD, too, but have never been evaluated or treated).

So DH may hold off on attorney after all since that's the most adversarial way (obviously) of trying to get progress on issues.

 

[TheGeekess]

Daughter says her mind races, she can't shut it off. She gets frustrated b/c she knows she needs to sleep, but sleep doesn't come. She says she's the same way at home.

This worries me. Is there a family history of Bipolar or any other mood disorders (besides Mom's [obvious] personality disorder)? If DH takes her to the doctor, please remind him to mention this.

 

[proud_parent]

This worries me. Is there a family history of Bipolar or any other mood disorders (besides Mom's [obvious] personality disorder)? If DH takes her to the doctor, please remind him to mention this.

I absolutely agree w/ apprising kiddo's physician and/or counselor of any family history of mental illness.

Comments like "mind racing, can't shut it off" in this context sound to me like an apt description of automatic negative thinking (that "irrational sort of thought process" you've already twigged to, wiley). ANT is a common characteristic of both mood and anxiety disorders.

It's plain that your stepdaughter is experiencing anxiety -- understandable given the extreme family dynamics at work -- but only a qualified clinician can discern whether in her case it has risen to the level of a disorder. Regardless, cognitive / behavioral therapy is an avenue that may prove helpful for her.

 

[proud_parent]

She says she will often sleep with her mom the night before she comes for visits, but not afterwards so it's not 2 nights before and 2 after b/c of how traumatized she is. Quite frankly, I think it's sweet she wants to sleep with her mom if she's going to spend a few nights away. My kids would want the same thing (they would sleep with us every chance they could). Mom had to twist it into something else.

Are you quite sure that kiddo initiated the "going-away" sleepovers with Mom? I would not be at all shocked to learn that Mom herself is the instigator; it would be consistent with the other borderline-type behaviors she exhibits.

 

[txmom512]

The mind racing thing is also the classic symptom of plain ol' insomnia.

I've suffered from it most of my adult life.

Something natural and otc that works well is Melatonin.

A co-worker of mine who has an ADHD child with sleeping problems was prescribed otc melatonin by his neurologist.

 

[proud_parent]

The mind racing thing is also the classic symptom of plain ol' insomnia.

Very true. A medical doc should be able to diagnose or rule out plain ol' insomnia as the problem. Hence the suggestion to get kiddo to a physician and proceed from there.

That's why family history of mental disorders is so important to bring up with the M.D., who might very well come to a different conclusion in light of that info than s/he would otherwise.

 

[wileybunch]

Yes, there is ADHD and hypomania issues on both sides of family.
DH has asked her several times what OTC med she gave DD, but she won't be more specific. At this point, DH wants her to be seen by doctor and Mom did tell DD today that she was going to take her, but in a later email to DH she's still saying DH is the root cause of DD's sleep issues but it would be nice to blame it on ADHD, DD has dreams that something bad will happen to her mom (and that's b/c DH's threats to put mom in jail -- which he didn't, but that's what she's apparently told the child re: the contempt hearings last year), and she's backed down from saying she will take her to doc and instead said maybe she'll buy some St. John's Wort or something and keep him posted. She also said she doesn't "drug" her kids. I think that was a dig at my kids that do take a med for ADHD. Whatever, go ahead and let your DD suffer. She's never brought it to a medical provider's attention in the first place so how does she know what the child needs? Mine only went on medication after years of pediatrician's oversight in the matter.

DH made it clear he wants her in to see a doctor b/c this has gone on for long enough if he takes Mom's account of the facts and he wants to be there and that he doesn't want any more messing around with OTCs on her own. He said he could make the appointment and let her know. She'll love that, I'm sure.

Needless to say the attorney appt won't be canceled, she's not operating in good faith after all and even if she does, it lasts a second.

proud_parent, I had asked DH if Mom was initiating the night before sleepovers. He said he didn't know. I wouldn't be surprised. It's a sweet thing to do under normal circumstances, but it does take on a different connotation if it was initiated as a sort of emotional manipulation. Ugh, I hate to think about what she does b/c I know as a CP, I am acutely aware of how much influence I can wield with my kids about their dad but I would not do that TO THEM.

And all the while today DD was happy and normal, is just enjoying her time. It's no wonder Mom seems to have a different view of things -- she seems to attract negativity!

 

[Humusluvr]

Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy???

 

[wileybunch]

I don't know if it's exactly, but fitting with suspected borderline personality. DH told her not to give DD any more OTC sleep medicines, that she needs to be seen by doc. Even though Mom didn't have a dinner date coming for this 5-day period Dad has DD, he let her have from 4-5PM yesterday. Of course she took a little longer (20 more minutes) and of course she went ahead and got her Unisom, didn't tell DH, and when DH asked her today if she'd given her something, she said she had. She apparently has DD checking in with her each morning b/c DD had called and given her the report after DH went to work. Even when DD is with DH, Mom is still intent on being in the mix and keeping information from DH or doing as she pleases. She's "the Mom", after all. DH asked for copy of new medical card yesterday, she could have DD bring it back with her. Mom said she didn't have time to copy. Dad says she can run it in when Mom picks DD up from Dad at work for their 1hr visit. Now she says she doesn't have it. Today she's saying she doesn't have it to fax to him. She's just always being sketchy. It took him months to get the last insurance card from her, too. This morning when she gets DH's email that he can offer some pediatrician names, she says she has one. DH asks who, she says she's selected a pediatrician on new HMO, but "doesn't know her name." That's the way things go with her. Missing information, false information, dodging questions.

 

[TheGeekess]

Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy???

No, I wouldn't think so... not from what's been posted. I'd just say Mom has Personality Disorders from Hell, NOS.

 

[wileybunch]

Dad allowed a brief 1 hr visit with Mom/DD yesterday afternoon. Of course that turned into 1h20m. Apparently Mom slipped DD Unisom that DD took last night, unbeknownst to him. He had told his ex to quit self medicating with OTC and get a doctor appt set up. He also said no more phone calls b/c Mom is abusing the 10 min/day provision (which was previously set that way last summer b/c Mom was constantly calling and texting DD throughout her visits w/Dad). Mom had DD call her this morning to check in with her, spoke >30 min. Doesn't seem to know the name of the doctor she's already picked out and will keep DH posted (but obviously she's not making it a high priority b/c she can't remember name and left insurance book at home -- or so she says). DH told her he made it clear she wasn't to call any more this parenting period (DD goes home tomorrow morning) and his ex told him off, said she's only trying to help DD pass all the lonely time she's spending alone at our house. DH already told her she wanted to have a down day Monday, yesterday she was quite busy all day, and today she was maybe going to have me pick her and some girls from church up and take them to the summer movie series as theater, would see how she felt in the AM, but after speaking to Mom for >30 min first thing, there wasn't time to get ready for that. That's fine, DD also likes down time, likes to catch TV, etc. since she's so busy during school year. But, Mom felt she needed to keep DD on the phone and talk about QVC b/c she was sitting there "all alone w/nothing to do" and she's "trying to help her adjust the best I can."

Meanwhile DD is again happy and content in our home, picked out a new comforter set yesterday while shopping with DH (for a great price and it's beautiful ) and we started painting the room last night with her input on colors, design, etc. She hung out with us in our room last night after the 9yo's went to bed until she went to bed. Yeah, she's having a reallly rough time.

She also told DH not to email her again so has cut off email communication.

Glad the attorney appt is tomorrow.

 

[Bloopy]

Every time she has a visit with you for more than two days, she has to sleep with me two days before she leaves and two days after she gets home!!!! How healthy do you think that is??

Yep it's extremely unhealthy of MOM.

Mom’s enmeshment with daughter is seen as using the Kiddo as an extension of herself. SHE has an irrational hatred of Dad and feels the need to get kiddo worked up too.

This is HUGE. They shouldn’t be sleeping together in an emotional game around visits. Please ensure Dad shares this email with the therapist, GAL… anyone that can help.

It's not sexual but it's very unhealthy