Not the Dad- Discuss

[Proserpina]

Actually, the blame lies squarely with the CSE agency and thier workers. BTW- through some friends I have alot of knowledge about this particular case.

When he was first notified about the CS, he was NOT informed by the CSE that he had the right to deny paternity and request a DNA test. He was only told that he had a child, that child's mother had collected assistance and that he HAD to pay CS. He was also told that he could make things easy on himself and just agree to an administrative order, or pay all court costs to go to court. Naturally, when it is put to someone that way and they have no legal knowledge at all with very little income, they get scared and just agree due to thier fears of going to court. This is why he signed an agreement.

In addition to not being told that he had rights to request a DNA, as in almost all cases, he was also never told that he could file for a modification if he were involuntarily unemployed, hence his being jailed twice for "contempt".

Although he was finally relieved of the duty to pay future support, the Judge that sent him to jail last year (where he's been for 1 YEAR) made a finding of contempt based soley on the caseworker's testimony, she claimed that he had told her that he would NOT pay anymore. The fact that he was involuntarily unemployed was totally ignored by the Judge. That is the reason that he was released now because after 1 year it finally went for a rehearing in front of a different Judge who saw the reality that he was not actually in contempt since his non payment was not willful due to being involuntarily unemployed.

He should be relieved of all arrears due to how things were done, but he never will be for 2 reasons- 1. He has yet to find a pro-bone attorney and cannot affoprd one, and 2- it would be a cold day in hell before any CSE worker in GA were to ever admit that they were wrong.
Like my frind said, all we can do is to pray for this poor guy and hope that some attorney comes forward who sees what an injustice this has been.

I don't think anyone can dispute that there's been a grave injustice done here - but doesn't he also have to share some of the responsibility?

We see and read here with regularity and frequency that ignorance is no defense - while privately I do think he should have been told, I'm not sure all of the blame lies on the CSE workers. He could have asked the question.

(Of course if he did ask and was either misled or lied to, that's another thing entirely)

 

[Gracie3787]

I don't think anyone can dispute that there's been a grave injustice done here - but doesn't he also have to share some of the responsibility?

We see and read here with regularity and frequency that ignorance is no defense - while privately I do think he should have been told, I'm not sure all of the blame lies on the CSE workers. He could have asked the question.

(Of course if he did ask and was either misled or lied to, that's another thing entirely)

Yes, I have to agree that the LAW says that ignorance is not a defense. However, that has always been unfair in some situations.

I have a friend who lost her job at the FL DOR CSE because she got so tired of watching men come through the office who were not attorneys and did not know the laws, and time and again she saw her coworkers refuse to inform them about thier rights. She said that it was always worse when pubic assitance was being paid. Even in the meetings they had for the employees, they were actually told that when assistance was being paid that they COULD NOT do anything that would help a putitive father prove or disprove paternity. She was fired because she was so fed up that she started going out to the cars and informing these men of thier rights. (She did win an unemployment claim for this reason, and SUPPOSEDLY, the DOR doesn't do that anymore, yeah, right).

Unfortunately, the vast majority of people, both NCPs, and CPs alike do not know what thier rights are because no one ever tells them, and the law does not require that they be told. I learned this the hard way when my own husband tried to do what was right. Long story short, he owed some arrears when we met, I finally convinced him to go the the DOR to make arrangements to pay, and he needed to do something to have his 21 yr old married daughter removed from the CS (CS in FL goes only to age 18). I went with him, oh yes, they wanted to amke an agreement about the arrears, but told him that as long as he owed arrears he had to pay CS on his married daughter. (an outright lie as we learned later). He got mad and told them to take him to court. They did, and that is when a very nice attorney in the courthouse hallway told me that he needed to file for a modification, something he said that the DOR should have done themselves, or at least told him about.

That's when I started researching laws, and yes I learned alot, but we all need to remember that not everyone has researched laws and not everyone has the ability to even understand what the laws say.

 

[BL]

Not over DNA ,or paternity ,but CSE won't give a NCP the time of day ,usually .

I had to contact my congressperson , and ask is there anything that could be done .She forwarded my request to the Assembly person,and their Law Dept . researched the laws that helped me , and sent them to me .

In the end the Hearing examiner for my modification was NOT happy at all . I had beat him on his game .

I also contacted missing and exploited children , and they kindly pointed me through the State Police , to the States clearinghouse on child abduction ,for a free booklet with a wealth of info. and the Laws , that greatly help me, in the Custody/visitation aspect , after a first round with a Judge that laughed me out of court , and he could have acknowledged my request and initiated a FPLS ( that I found out about later on ) .

Appellate said he abused his discretion the second time around too.

Those less fortunate to be able to have the knowledge , do end up on the short end of the stick .

Judges go by what's in front of them . Agencies Lawyers tend to twist the truths for there ends to be meant .

Sometimes , you;ll get a no hold barred Judge that actually ask relevant questions , to make sure the rulings are fair.

 

[SIN EATER]

If blame is being apportioned, what about the MOTHER who identified who the father of the child was ????

Mom has an equal opportunity to ask for a Genetic Test, and should when she knows there's a possibility another may be Dad.

Dad didn't present himself at CSE and announce he's father; she named him and set CSE/Court on him.

 

[futuredust]

Also, what were testing procedures like in 1987?

When my oldest child was born in 1988 I had to wait until she was 6 months old for her to be tested. The father and I, with the child were taken on a mobile bus lab that came to the area. The child was strapped down to a table in a papoose type contraption then he and I were seated across from each other. They drew blood from all of us- then we waited almost 6 more months for the results.

Father and I both signed a document, it basically said if he was not the dad I paid the costs, if he was he paid the costs. It was nearly 2k when we did it, and he had to pay the child support unit for the test.

Since this article mentions the mother applying for services, maybe both were intimidated by the costs if they were presented with a similar circumstance as mine. Since he knew he had slept with her, and they were an "item" it is possible he believed her. And I am sure she wasn't going to volunteer to him she had been unfaithful.

 

[Proserpina]

Also, what were testing procedures like in 1987?

When my oldest child was born in 1988 I had to wait until she was 6 months old for her to be tested. The father and I, with the child were taken on a mobile bus lab that came to the area. The child was strapped down to a table in a papoose type contraption then he and I were seated across from each other. They drew blood from all of us- then we waited almost 6 more months for the results.

Father and I both signed a document, it basically said if he was not the dad I paid the costs, if he was he paid the costs. It was nearly 2k when we did it, and he had to pay the child support unit for the test.

Since this article mentions the mother applying for services, maybe both were intimidated by the costs if they were presented with a similar circumstance as mine. Since he knew he had slept with her, and they were an "item" it is possible he believed her. And I am sure she wasn't going to volunteer to him she had been unfaithful.

Not wishing to hijack, but there's quite the fascinating history here... The History of DNA Testing for Paternity and Identification

 

[futuredust]

Not wishing to hijack, but there's quite the fascinating history here... The History of DNA Testing for Paternity and Identification

Thank you so much!

 

[Proserpina]

You're absolutely welcome!

My geekhood is at your service

 

[hearts41]

Yes, I have to agree that the LAW says that ignorance is not a defense. However, that has always been unfair in some situations.

I have a friend who lost her job at the FL DOR CSE because she got so tired of watching men come through the office who were not attorneys and did not know the laws, and time and again she saw her coworkers refuse to inform them about thier rights. She said that it was always worse when pubic assitance was being paid. Even in the meetings they had for the employees, they were actually told that when assistance was being paid that they COULD NOT do anything that would help a putitive father prove or disprove paternity. She was fired because she was so fed up that she started going out to the cars and informing these men of thier rights. (She did win an unemployment claim for this reason, and SUPPOSEDLY, the DOR doesn't do that anymore, yeah, right).

Unfortunately, the vast majority of people, both NCPs, and CPs alike do not know what thier rights are because no one ever tells them, and the law does not require that they be told. I learned this the hard way when my own husband tried to do what was right. Long story short, he owed some arrears when we met, I finally convinced him to go the the DOR to make arrangements to pay, and he needed to do something to have his 21 yr old married daughter removed from the CS (CS in FL goes only to age 18). I went with him, oh yes, they wanted to amke an agreement about the arrears, but told him that as long as he owed arrears he had to pay CS on his married daughter. (an outright lie as we learned later). He got mad and told them to take him to court. They did, and that is when a very nice attorney in the courthouse hallway told me that he needed to file for a modification, something he said that the DOR should have done themselves, or at least told him about.

That's when I started researching laws, and yes I learned alot, but we all need to remember that not everyone has researched laws and not everyone has the ability to even understand what the laws say.

More about the FL DOR apparently the way my Order was set up when my daughter turned 18 last year my CS was not due to decrease. I found this out by contacting the DOR CSE. I was told twice ( I did not believe the first clerk) that since the wording in my Order was such that when my daughter turned 18 my CS would not automatically go down. I found this very unfair, why would my x husband still pay the exact same amount for one child that he was paying for two? I looked the Order over, scruntinized it as a matter of fact, I assumed the DOR CSE would adjust the CS accordingly based on the guidelines for now one child, apparently this was not going to happen.

 

[BL]

Update

Realeased of debt:

Childless man released from child support debt - CNN.com

 

[Isis1]

Realeased of debt:

Childless man released from child support debt - CNN.com

phew....once again....DNA test. get a freaking DNA test right after the birth!!!!

thanks for updating!

 

[bobbyfernandez]

I'm not an attorney-but I play one on TV

What kind of world/country are we living in? Why should a man pay for his wife infidelity? She has committed fraud and should have to repay all monies collected. He was only named as father due to the deceitful nature of the mother. She should be held responsible. Maybe all babies should be tested at birth to keep dishonest people from taking advantage of another trust. The law should be changed if it favors the mother.

PS-I'm a female

 

[Isis1]

What kind of world/country are we living in? Why should a man pay for his wife infidelity? She has committed fraud and should have to repay all monies collected. He was only named as father due to the deceitful nature of the mother. She should be held responsible. Maybe all babies should be tested at birth to keep dishonest people from taking advantage of another trust. The law should be changed if it favors the mother.

PS-I'm a female

he was never married to her. ever. he paid for 13 years. willingly. the time to contest paternity is at the time the child is born. not 13 years later.

but definitely all babies born to mothers out of wedlock should be tested at childbirth.

 

[sljak]

Another injustice to fathers. What are you kidding me people. This man sat in jail for not paying child support for a child that was not even his. Aparently the mother lied !!! Hello**************.She should be arrested, put in jail for the same amount of time that he was. And made to pay back all the money he paid her for support of the child that was not his. Unless, she was a complete hoe, she did not know who fathered her child? This man for all these years went through all the courts and BS from this lying woman. Will she be Arrested? Charged? And what about that poor child who thought he had a dad for all these years? Does the mother even know who the real father could be? This is another example of how the courts are for mothers and disregard the rights of fathers. Custody, child support is so one sided. It is criminal. Judges need to go back to school and take courses in how not to rape a father, and be equal in decisions. The status quo of "mommy" is abserd and inhuman to men. This women literely changed and destroyed this guys life. If it were me, I'd file the biggest lawsuit that ever hit the country. Press criminal charges foe what she did and civil for all the damage she caused in both father and child's life.

And, no, I am not a man. I am a women and I see this type of stuff everyday. And the women NEVER gets punished. She ruined the guys life, put him in jail, took money and got away with it.

Justice? Yeah, for who? Any judge that allows this to happen should be derailed from the bench and have charges filed againist them !!!

 

[Isis1]

Another injustice to fathers. What are you kidding me people. This man sat in jail for not paying child support for a child that was not even his. Aparently the mother lied !!! Hello**************.She should be arrested, put in jail for the same amount of time that he was. And made to pay back all the money he paid her for support of the child that was not his. Unless, she was a complete hoe, she did not know who fathered her child? This man for all these years went through all the courts and BS from this lying woman. Will she be Arrested? Charged? And what about that poor child who thought he had a dad for all these years? Does the mother even know who the real father could be? This is another example of how the courts are for mothers and disregard the rights of fathers. Custody, child support is so one sided. It is criminal. Judges need to go back to school and take courses in how not to rape a father, and be equal in decisions. The status quo of "mommy" is abserd and inhuman to men. This women literely changed and destroyed this guys life. If it were me, I'd file the biggest lawsuit that ever hit the country. Press criminal charges foe what she did and civil for all the damage she caused in both father and child's life.

And, no, I am not a man. I am a women and I see this type of stuff everyday. And the women NEVER gets punished. She ruined the guys life, put him in jail, took money and got away with it.

Justice? Yeah, for who? Any judge that allows this to happen should be derailed from the bench and have charges filed againist them !!!

so it was the judge's fault dad didn't get a DNA test after the child was born? it was the judge's fault that dad told him he admitted to this being his child?

and are you aware that a hoe is a gardening tool?