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off-duty police officers

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kpcpcpc

Junior Member
What is the name of your state?New York
What is the name of your state? New York
I'm not sure if I have this in the correct forum but this forum appears to be as close as it gets categorically. I have a general question about off-duty police officers. I read an article about an altercation that took place between a civilian and an off duty police officer. It was an argument at a kids hockey game and the only physical contact was the civilian head butting the off-duty cop. The cop then said "You're in real trouble now. I'm a cop." I was just wondering what exactly that meant. Do you get in more trouble for striking an off-duty police officer then you would a civilian? Is it as bad as it would be for striking an on-duty officer? And what if you had no way of knowing it was a police officer at all (not in uniform, no badge showing, and no verbal identification)?
Thanks; KPC
 


ENASNI

Senior Member
Oh

Was he holding a donut?


Sooo sorry Carl... :o
You will get answers Poster... don't worry.. I will get some scrum though
There are a lot of coppers out there. Buckner Fedcop lawgirl. ;)

I am going to duck and cover so just you wait...I will be behind this tree don't tell them... this is an interesting question.
 
S

seniorjudge

Guest
Q: The cop then said "You're in real trouble now. I'm a cop." I was just wondering what exactly that meant.

A: To find that out, you would have to ask the cop who was assaulted. I don't have the details of the fight you are talking about so I don't know if it was just two hot-headed (and stupid) parents or whether the cop was trying to stop the guy from doing something illegal.


Q: Do you get in more trouble for striking an off-duty police officer then you would a civilian?

A: There really is no such thing as an off-duty officer. If I shoplift in Wal-Mart and a cop who is not on duty tries to arrest me and I deck him, it doesn't help me that he was off-duty.


Q: Is it as bad as it would be for striking an on-duty officer?

A: I am not aware of any part of any law defining an assault victim's duty status as part of the crime.


Q: And what if you had no way of knowing it was a police officer at all (not in uniform, no badge showing, and no verbal identification)?

A: You take your chances. If a scruffy looking character tries to stop me from selling dope and I deck him and he's an undercover cop, then I am in big trouble even if he didn't flash a badge.
 
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kpcpcpc

Junior Member
Q: The cop then said "You're in real trouble now. I'm a cop." I was just wondering what exactly that meant.

A: To find that out, you would have to ask the cop who was assaulted. I don't have the details of the fight you are talking about so I don't know if it was just two hot-headed (and stupid) parents or whether the cop was trying to stop the guy from doing something illegal.


Q: Do you get in more trouble for striking an off-duty police officer then you would a civilian?

A: There really is no such thing as an off-duty officer. If I shoplift in Wal-Mart and a cop who is not on duty tries to arrest me and I deck him, it doesn't help me that he was off-duty.

Q2A:OK if there is no such thing as "off-duty" for police then why does the term exist and why is used all the time?


Q: Is it as bad as it would be for striking an on-duty officer?

A: I am not aware of any part of any law defining an assault victim's duty status as part of the crime.

Q2A:What I mean is would someone be charged with striking a police office which as far as I understand is worse then striking someone who is not a police officer.


Q: And what if you had no way of knowing it was a police officer at all (not in uniform, no badge showing, and no verbal identification)?

A: You take your chances. If a scruffy looking character tries to stop me from selling dope and I deck him and he's an undercover cop, then I am in big trouble even if he didn't flash a badge.

OK. Aside from being in the process of committing a crime (ie shop lifting or drug dealing). Let me give you a scenario that I was actually a witness to. My friend and I about 10 years ago were in a bar and he was talking to this girl he just met. Some guy then comes up and starts mouthing off in my friend face that the girl his girlfriend. My friend in turn starting mouthing off. Both doing so in a hot headed manner. Just as it was about to turn physical the bouncers broke it up. One of the bouncers who separated us from this guy told my friend he was lucky he didn't hit the other guy because he is an off-duty cop and he would be charged with striking a police officer.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
kpcpcpc said:
I read an article about an altercation that took place between a civilian and an off duty police officer. It was an argument at a kids hockey game and the only physical contact was the civilian head butting the off-duty cop. The cop then said "You're in real trouble now. I'm a cop." I was just wondering what exactly that meant.
Usually, the person striking the officer would be in greater trouble if the suspect knew, or should have reasonably known the person he hit was a cop.

If a parent sitting next to me at a little league game popped me in the chin, it would be the same as if he popped anyone else ... unless he knew I was a cop.

I remember a case once where a defendant tried to argue that two officers in FULL UNIFORM had failed to tell him they were police officers, therefore he should not be responsible for hitting a peace officer! It didn't work, but lawyers will try that.

- Carl
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
kpcpcpc said:
Q2A:OK if there is no such thing as "off-duty" for police then why does the term exist and why is used all the time?
In most states, a fully sworn peace officer is a peace officer 24/7. However, they are not "on the clock" and getting paid for that 24/7 status. But the fact that they are not on their assigned duty shift and station (i.e. "on duty") does NOT mean that they lose their status as peace officers.

When I am not on the clock, I am off duty. But I still retain the same legal benefits and responsibilities of being a sworn peace officer.

Additionally, I am also subject to my department's policies even when off duty. How many private employers can discipline or terminate you for activity that you do away from the work place?


Q2A:What I mean is would someone be charged with striking a police office which as far as I understand is worse then striking someone who is not a police officer.
I believe every state has enhanced penalties for committing battery on a peace officer as opposed to the average citizen.


One of the bouncers who separated us from this guy told my friend he was lucky he didn't hit the other guy because he is an off-duty cop and he would be charged with striking a police officer.
Whether he could be charged or convicted depends on your state's laws. I am pretty sure that New York requires that the person doing the striking have some knowledge that the person he is hitting was a cop - it may also require that the officer be acting in some form of official capacity as well.

In other words, just being a cop may not be sufficient to add the enhancement. The off duty officer might also have to be attempting to perform a legitimate peace officer function - like breaking up a fight. if I pick a fight with someone in a bar, and then I tell them I'm a cop as I push them, and they pop me back, chances are the other guy is not going to be convicted of hitting a peace officer as my actions had nothing to do with being a peace officer.

Although! While the other guy might not be convicted of the offense, he might be arrested. The two are seperate matters.

- Carl
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
ENASNI said:
Was he holding a donut?


Sooo sorry Carl... :o

I give donuts to my kids ... I save the croissants for myself. ;)


I am going to duck and cover so just you wait...I will be behind this tree don't tell them... this is an interesting question.
I have a FLIR device ... I CAN find you! :D

- Carl
 

kpcpcpc

Junior Member
Thanks Carl

Thanks for post Carl it was very informative. And don't worry I'm not some nut looking to go around fighting people in bars. In fact I'm trying to get on the job right now here in NY. Ironically my friend who I mentioned in the story ran into the off-duty cop he almost slugged as they are now both working out of the same NYPD pct. Small world.
 
S

seniorjudge

Guest
kpcpcpc said:
Thanks for post Carl it was very informative. And don't worry I'm not some nut looking to go around fighting people in bars. In fact I'm trying to get on the job right now here in NY. Ironically my friend who I mentioned in the story ran into the off-duty cop he almost slugged as they are now both working out of the same NYPD pct. Small world.
It was an argument at a kids hockey game and the only physical contact was the civilian head butting the off-duty cop.

I hope you told them both that they should hang their heads in shame!

(BTW, Carl is always right.)
 

ENASNI

Senior Member
and

seniorjudge said:
It was an argument at a kids hockey game and the only physical contact was the civilian head butting the off-duty cop.

I hope you told them both that they should hang their heads in shame!

(BTW, Carl is always right.)

BTW the Judge is always right...
except when he is wrong... which is never..
so I stick to my original BTW.
Lucky Kids Carl...
:D
 

dogwood

Member
Sorry had to say it

CdwJava;;;Additionally, I am also subject to my department's policies even when off duty. How many private employers can discipline or terminate you for activity that you do away from the work place?

Weyco apparently can...
 

You Are Guilty

Senior Member
kpcpcpc said:
Thanks for post Carl it was very informative. And don't worry I'm not some nut looking to go around fighting people in bars. In fact I'm trying to get on the job right now here in NY. Ironically my friend who I mentioned in the story ran into the off-duty cop he almost slugged as they are now both working out of the same NYPD pct. Small world.


In case you're really bored, here's the scoop:

NY Penal Law said:
§ 120.08 Assault on a peace officer, police officer, fireman or emergency medical services professional.

A person is guilty of assault on a peace officer, police officer,
fireman or emergency medical services professional when, with intent to
prevent a peace officer, police officer, a fireman, including a fireman
acting as a paramedic or emergency medical technician administering
first aid in the course of performance of duty as such fireman, or an
emergency medical service paramedic or emergency medical service
technician, from performing a lawful duty, he causes serious physical
injury to such peace officer, police officer, fireman, paramedic or
technician.

Assault on a peace officer, police officer, fireman or emergency
medical services professional is a class C felony.

The "with intent" part requires that the offender "knew or should have known" that the person was an office/fireman/etc.

There's also aggrated on an officer:
§ 120.11 Aggravated assault upon a police officer or a peace officer.
A person is guilty of aggravated assault upon a police officer or a
peace officer when, with intent to cause serious physical injury to a
person whom he knows or reasonably should know to be a police officer or
a peace officer engaged in the course of performing his official duties,
he causes such injury by means of a deadly weapon or dangerous
instrument.
Aggravated assault upon a police officer or a peace officer is a class
B felony.

And for comparison's sake, there's good old fashioned Assault 2nd:

§ 120.05 Assault in the second degree.
A person is guilty of assault in the second degree when:
1. With intent to cause serious physical injury to another person, he
causes such injury to such person or to a third person; or
2. With intent to cause physical injury to another person, he causes
such injury to such person or to a third person by means of a deadly
weapon or a dangerous instrument; or
3. With intent to prevent a peace officer, police officer, a fireman,
including a fireman acting as a paramedic or emergency medical
technician administering first aid in the course of performance of duty
as such fireman, an emergency medical service paramedic or emergency
medical service technician, or medical or related personnel in a
hospital emergency department, from performing a lawful duty, by means
including releasing or failing to control an animal under circumstances
evincing the actor's intent that the animal obstruct the lawful activity
of such peace officer, police officer, fireman, paramedic or technician,
he causes physical injury to such peace officer, police officer,
fireman, paramedic, technician or medical or related personnel in a
hospital emergency department;
or
4. He recklessly causes serious physical injury to another person by
means of a deadly weapon or a dangerous instrument; or
5. For a purpose other than lawful medical or therapeutic treatment,
he intentionally causes stupor, unconsciousness or other physical
impairment or injury to another person by administering to him, without
his consent, a drug, substance or preparation capable of producing the
same; or
6. In the course of and in furtherance of the commission or attempted
commission of a felony, other than a felony defined in article one
hundred thirty which requires corroboration for conviction, or of
immediate flight therefrom, he, or another participant if there be any,
causes physical injury to a person other than one of the participants;
or
7. Having been charged with or convicted of a crime and while confined
in a correctional facility, as defined in subdivision three of section
forty of the correction law, pursuant to such charge or conviction, with
intent to cause physical injury to another person, he causes such injury
to such person or to a third person; or
8. Being eighteen years old or more and with intent to cause physical
injury to a person less than eleven years old, the defendant recklessly
causes serious physical injury to such person; or
9. Being eighteen years old or more and with intent to cause physical
injury to a person less than seven years old, the defendant causes such
injury to such person; or
10. Acting at a place the person knows, or reasonably should know, is
on school grounds and with intent to cause physical injury, he or she:
(a) causes such injury to an employee of a school or public school
district; or
(b) not being a student of such school or public school district,
causes physical injury to another, and such other person is a student of
such school who is attending or present for educational purposes. For
purposes of this subdivision the term "school grounds" shall have the
meaning set forth in subdivision fourteen of section 220.00 of this
chapter.
11. With intent to cause physical injury to a train operator, ticket
inspector, conductor, bus operator or station agent employed by any
transit agency, authority or company, public or private, whose operation
is authorized by New York state or any of its political subdivisions, he
or she causes physical injury to such train operator, ticket inspector,
conductor, bus operator or station agent while such employee is performing an assigned duty on, or directly related to, the operation of a train or bus. Assault in the second degree is a class D felony.

Sorry you asked yet? :)
 

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