OH Parent needs help in appealing Forced GPV

[Smith5]

What is the name of your state? OHIO

On Wednesday December 7th, I was totally blindsided when the court awarded my daughter's paternal grandfather visitation every other weekend and every other holiday. Not only that but I have to be the one to provide transportation AND I have to give visitation to her father when he wants to play daddy...if I refuse I was threatened with jail. I asked when was I supposed to have time with my daughter if I have to split her weekends with her father and grandfather...I was told if that happened then I would have to file to have the order changed. Why am I being the one penalized for protecting my daughter?

There was once a time when I allowed unsupervised visitation with her grandfather, but he continually allowed his son to expose his drunken violent behavior in front of my daughter (without my knowledge), so I stopped visitation at his home when I accidently caught them in the act (I showed up one day too early to pick my daughter and her father was in a drunken rage...only to find out that this had happened several times before that day). I did tell him that he could visit with her whenever he wanted at my home so that I would have peace of mind that my daughter would not be exposed to a lifestyle to which she is not accustomed. Needless to say that the grandfather was mad that I put restrictions on his vistations. He waited 10 months then filed suit against me for GPV and lied to the court stating that I denied him access to his granddaughter. He stated in court that he has a "God given right to visit with his granddaughter no matter what I say"...the court agreed with him.

I have to file an appeal 14 days from December 7th. Is there anyone who can direct and help me with this appeal? I hired an attorney to represent me in the initial case, but I cannot afford to keep paying her $250.00 an hour. I have 2 other children that I am trying to raise AND finish college. My husband makes good money, but not enough to keep the appeal process going. Any advise or help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for taking the time to read this request.

 

[Smith5]

What is the name of your state? OHIO

On Wednesday December 7th, I was totally blindsided when the court awarded my daughter's paternal grandfather visitation every other weekend and every other holiday. Not only that but I have to be the one to provide transportation AND I have to give visitation to her father when he wants to play daddy...if I refuse I was threatened with jail. I asked when was I supposed to have time with my daughter if I have to split her weekends with her father and grandfather...I was told if that happened then I would have to file to have the order changed. Why am I being the one penalized for protecting my daughter?

There was once a time when I allowed unsupervised visitation with her grandfather, but he continually allowed his son to expose his drunken violent behavior in front of my daughter (without my knowledge), so I stopped visitation at his home when I accidently caught them in the act (I showed up one day too early to pick my daughter and her father was in a drunken rage...only to find out that this had happened several times before that day). I did tell him that he could visit with her whenever he wanted at my home so that I would have peace of mind that my daughter would not be exposed to a lifestyle to which she is not accustomed. Needless to say that the grandfather was mad that I put restrictions on his vistations. He waited 10 months then filed suit against me for GPV and lied to the court stating that I denied him access to his granddaughter. He stated in court that he has a "God given right to visit with his granddaughter no matter what I say"...the court agreed with him.

I have to file an appeal 14 days from December 7th. Is there anyone who can direct and help me with this appeal? I hired an attorney to represent me in the initial case, but I cannot afford to keep paying her $250.00 an hour. I have 2 other children that I am trying to raise AND finish college. My husband makes good money, but not enough to keep the appeal process going. Any advise or help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for taking the time to read this request.

“Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first." - Reagan, Ronald

"Democracy must be something more than two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner." - James Bovard, Civil Libertarian (1994)

 

[rmet4nzkx]

The courts take a dim view of interfereing with the right of a parent to have a relationship with their child, this is called contempt. If you continue to do this you can lose custody of your child. Since you are no longer with the child's father, nor are you cooporating in coparenting, you are not the one to decide who visits or when. The court has ruled, based on all the evidence presented that the child benefits from visitation with both the parental grandfather and her father. Now you have a court order, so there should be little question on your part as to who and when your daughter visits. Apparently the court is not pleased with your control trip.

 

[Smith5]

I never denied my daughter's father visitation...her father chooses not to visit with her (we (her stepfather and I) are in the process of terminating his rights). I am merely protecting my daughter from her father due to his reckless lifestyle to which he has no qualms about exposing her to with his violent drunken behavior. He is the one that doesn't want to be a parent and doesn't Troxel protect my right as a fit parent to protect my daughter as I see fit? Her grandfather whom I never had a problem with her visiting is the one who sued me for visitaiton, which I might add, that I never denied him access to her...only the fact that she was in line of danger while visiting her grandfather because he allowes his son around while drunk and beligerant...that is the part that I wanted to prevent, which is why I told him that he was free to visit with her whenever he wished at my home...this was before the motion for GPV. Now the court did exactly what I feared they would do...put her right back in the line of danger and allowed unsupervised visitation with her grandfather in his home. It only takes a reckless moment to regret something for the rest of your life...and her father has no respect of life since he continually put others at risk, not only with his lifestyle, but with his life choices...he continually drinks/drugs and drives and has repeatedly shown little/no respect for human life with these choices. How can a mother sit by knowing that her child is at risk everytime she walks through her grandfather's door especially when she knows that the grandfather won't put his granddaughter's best interest first and stop the behavior in his home while she is visiting? It's not a control issue as far as visitation, but control as far as protecting my daughter from potential harm.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

If you had an attorney and got blindsided by this and you are not understanding the concept now, no one here is going to be able to get through to you.

I see several possibilities, you and or you husband is/are on a control trip and your husband doesn't have any legal say in any of this nor should he be influencing you or forcing you.

You are by your own admission in a custody battle if you are trying to terminate dad's parental rights. That fact is going to adversely affect your child's best interest because you will tend to make more out of things than reasonable as demonstrated by your admission and the court's order.

You say you have no problem with your child visiting grandfather unsupervised, Then it is in the child's best interest to continue this beneficial relationship even if dad is not able to visit on a regular basis or feels intimidated to visit. So you state you volluntarily allowed GP to visit, yet you go and sneak up early to collect your child and, a ha, you catch dad in an uncontrolled drunken rage. How convenient and you claim you are not controlling? Of course he was pi$$ed that you came to interfere with his visit with his child? Perhaps you contributed to the problem.

Unless there is a restraining order preventing dad from contact with your child and or he is only allowed supervised visitation, which is clearly not the case, you cannot control his or his father's court ordered visitation time, doing so may result in you being seen as unfit and losing custody of your child.

Yo do not decide who is fit, the court does. Troxel doesn't apply since dad is not objecitng to his father's visitation with the child and apparently the court was not convienced by your evidence that either is unfit.

Stop looking for someone here to assist you in defying the court's lawful orders.

If you are abused either physically or emotionally, please contact the
National Domestic Violence Hotline: 1-800-799-7233
24-Hour Access from all 50 states. http://www.ndvh.org/

 

[Smith5]

You are making too many assumptions...first of all, I have custody of my daughter and her father only has standard visitation. Her father has separate visitations from her grandfather...which is to say that they have EVERY weekend now. Father does not exercise his visitation which is not to say that he would not in the future which I find to be problematic since I am the one who would have to change the order. We are not on a control trip...and yes I want to be able to control what type of environment my daughter is exposed to...one that does not contain drunken violent behavior on a continual basis. No decent parent would want their child exposed to that type of life. You made the assumption that I snuck up there to catch her father in an unbecoming act...you assumed too much...never once did I ever think that her grandfather would put his granddaughter in harms way by allowing his son to act irresponcibily around his daughter...but he disproved that by admitting that similar incidents had happened several times before that day. The grandfather is the one who is upset that I stopped visitation at his home which is due to the fact that his drunk son also lives with him and he will not stop the behavior that I find appaulling while his granddaughter visits...the father could care less if he ever sees his daughter. If she dropped off the face of the earth, he would be most happy due to the fact that he could stop paying child support. Before making hasty judgements about people maybe you should know all the facts before etching them in stone. The grandfather's visitation should happen only during his son's visitation should his son decide to be a father rather than a drunken burden on our society. Who are you to say that I cannot judge who is fit/unfit to visit with my daughter especially when it comes to her safety? You did not carry her for nine months, nurse her through illnesses, and surgery after surgery, walking the floors worrying that all the decisions you make are in her best interest. Do you honestly think that a drunken environment is healthy for a child of 5...or any child of any age for that matter? You have no idea of how these people live/act, so I do object to the fact that now both the father and grandfahter have every weekend and holiday...which by the way is a total inconvience for myself and our family. I don't appreciate the fact that you seem to side with a drunk rather than take into consideration the safety of a minor child who cannot make a mature decision when it comes to her own safety and welfare...I thought that was my God-given right...just because her father could care less about her safety and welfare doesn't mean that I will stand idly by and watch him destroy her innocent outlook on life...I want her to grow up to be a responcible and productive person in society...not the drunken burden he has become.

 

[Rushia]

Smith5, enable your pms. Some of us are going thru the same thing and we can help you.

 

[stealth2]

We are not on a control trip....

The court apparently thinks otherwise. I don't think you're going to have any success on appeal w/o an attorney. Sorry.

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state? OHIO

On Wednesday December 7th, I was totally blindsided when the court awarded my daughter's paternal grandfather visitation every other weekend and every other holiday. Not only that but I have to be the one to provide transportation AND I have to give visitation to her father when he wants to play daddy...if I refuse I was threatened with jail. I asked when was I supposed to have time with my daughter if I have to split her weekends with her father and grandfather...I was told if that happened then I would have to file to have the order changed. Why am I being the one penalized for protecting my daughter?

There was once a time when I allowed unsupervised visitation with her grandfather, but he continually allowed his son to expose his drunken violent behavior in front of my daughter (without my knowledge), so I stopped visitation at his home when I accidently caught them in the act (I showed up one day too early to pick my daughter and her father was in a drunken rage...only to find out that this had happened several times before that day). I did tell him that he could visit with her whenever he wanted at my home so that I would have peace of mind that my daughter would not be exposed to a lifestyle to which she is not accustomed. Needless to say that the grandfather was mad that I put restrictions on his vistations. He waited 10 months then filed suit against me for GPV and lied to the court stating that I denied him access to his granddaughter. He stated in court that he has a "God given right to visit with his granddaughter no matter what I say"...the court agreed with him.

I have to file an appeal 14 days from December 7th. Is there anyone who can direct and help me with this appeal? I hired an attorney to represent me in the initial case, but I cannot afford to keep paying her $250.00 an hour. I have 2 other children that I am trying to raise AND finish college. My husband makes good money, but not enough to keep the appeal process going. Any advise or help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for taking the time to read this request.

Tell me exactly how the order reads. If it is a true GPV order then you absolutely must appeal it, and I strongly recommend that you have an attorney (however, perhaps, not the attorney that you currently have). Not only is it normally extremely difficult for a grandparent to get a visitation order, but I haven't seen a grandparent get that kind of a visitation order since the pre-Troxel days.

If its somehow an order combined with dad's visitation...or the judge is allowing grandpa to share dad's visitation, then it may be harder to fight.

So, tell me exactly how it reads.

 

[Smith5]

I appreciate ALL of the replies...I truly do!

The order reads as such:

Finding of Fact:
Visitation of grandchild with grandfather presents no danger to child, and would be in the best interest of the child.

Order:
Visitation is to take place at grandfather's residence every other weekend/every other holiday beginning 12/09/05. When visitation occurs, no drinking or other unwarranted behavior during visit.

When I asked the magistrate if I had to separate the father/grandfather's visits he said "should the father choose to exercise his right to visitation then I could not deny him nor could I not deny the grandfather his now court ordered visitation". So, in my understanding, that should her father decide that he wants to make my life difficult he and his father would have every weekend and every holiday. I was also informed that should this happen, I would have to be the one to file to have the orders changed.

I do agree that her grandfather does love/care about her, but I should not have to be forced to send her into an environment that I find unhealthy and unproductive.

Much thanks and respect to all!

 

[Smith5]

Rushia

pms are enabled...thank you for the support and response.

 

[LdiJ]

I appreciate ALL of the replies...I truly do!

The order reads as such:

Finding of Fact:
Visitation of grandchild with grandfather presents no danger to child, and would be in the best interest of the child.

Order:
Visitation is to take place at grandfather's residence every other weekend/every other holiday beginning 12/09/05. When visitation occurs, no drinking or other unwarranted behavior during visit.

When I asked the magistrate if I had to separate the father/grandfather's visits he said "should the father choose to exercise his right to visitation then I could not deny him nor could I not deny the grandfather his now court ordered visitation". So, in my understanding, that should her father decide that he wants to make my life difficult he and his father would have every weekend and every holiday. I was also informed that should this happen, I would have to be the one to file to have the orders changed.

I do agree that her grandfather does love/care about her, but I should not have to be forced to send her into an environment that I find unhealthy and unproductive.

Much thanks and respect to all!

Ok, you ABSOLUTELY must get an attorney. If you are appealing to the judge (the judge overseeing the magistrate), you can use a regular family law attorney, but fire the one that you have now. Your attorney had to have been a very poor one for that kind of order to be made. If you are appealing to the court of appeals, you need an attorney that specializes in appeals.

That order is almost guaranteed to be overturned on appeal. It is an absolute violation of the Troxel standards, and a violation of the standards set by the Ohio Supreme Court as well. The "findings of fact" are what kill it for the magistrate...as well as the fact that he is taking YOUR weekends and holidays to give the grandfather visitation, rather than dad's.

Please don't let this one pass....do the appeal because you are almost 100% guaranteed to win. That was legally a very bad order.

PM me if you want some help getting case law.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

DAD LIVES WITH GRANDFATHER.
Dad has standard visitation.
The court specifically said you cannot interfere with dad's current visitation.
Apparently you have done something to cause the judge to make such an order.
The next step for you is contempt if you continue.
The court has specific language in the order

Order:
Visitation is to take place at grandfather's residence every other weekend/every other holiday beginning 12/09/05. When visitation occurs, no drinking or other unwarranted behavior during visit.

If and or when such behavior occurs, in the future, then you can file contempt or file to modify dad's standard visitation order, however contrary to what Ldij and Rushia may lead you to believe you have no grounds for appeal. Neither parent has been deemed unfit, dad is not objecting to his father having visitation and lives with his father, what do you expect him to do, go sit in the Snow while your daughter visits when dad has a right to a relationship with his child? Even though you believe you are the judge, you are not the judge.

If you truely believe your child is in danger or abused, not because you are in a custody battle, then petition the court for a Guardian ad Litem, they will investigate the situation and represent the best interest of the child. The downfall to having a GAL to represent the best interest of the child is that they will look at you and your intent along with all the other significant persons in your child's life and you may not get the result you want. Ldij doesn't like GAL's for that reason. Ldij is not an attorney but she does have a prejudice against grandparents and so may advise you to fight a battle that will cost you a lot of money, that may not be in your child's best interest. Do you really think grandfather is going to allow inappropriate behavior with a court order prohibiting it?

 

[LdiJ]

DAD LIVES WITH GRANDFATHER.
Dad has standard visitation.
The court specifically said you cannot interfere with dad's current visitation.
Apparently you have done something to cause the judge to make such an order.
The next step for you is contempt if you continue.
The court has specific language in the order If and or when such behavior occurs, in the future, then you can file contempt or file to modify dad's standard visitation order, however contrary to what Ldij and Rushia may lead you to believe you have no grounds for appeal. Neither parent has been deemed unfit, dad is not objecting to his father having visitation and lives with his father, what do you expect him to do, go sit in the Snow while your daughter visits when dad has a right to a relationship with his child? Even though you believe you are the judge, you are not the judge.

If you truely believe your child is in danger or abused, not because you are in a custody battle, then petition the court for a Guardian ad Litem, they will investigate the situation and represent the best interest of the child. The downfall to having a GAL to represent the best interest of the child is that they will look at you and your intent along with all the other significant persons in your child's life and you may not get the result you want. Ldij doesn't like GAL's for that reason. Ldij is not an attorney but she does have a prejudice against grandparents and so may advise you to fight a battle that will cost you a lot of money, that may not be in your child's best interest. Do you really think grandfather is going to allow inappropriate behavior with a court order prohibiting it?

Rmet, read the language of her order again, you are totally misinterpreting the order. The magistrate is NOT giving the grandfather the right to exercise dad's visitation time, the judge is giving the grandfather his OWN visitation.

Grandpa filed for grandparent visitation rights.

I also can find no indications in any of her posts that dad lives with grandpa, only that dad has been at grandpa's home on occasion.

The magistrate also made it clear that grandpa's visitation was separate from dads. That would not be necessary if dad lives with grandpa. What's more, he gave grandpa the equilvelent to parental visitation which means that should dad decide to exercise his court ordered visitation that mom would have no weekends or holidays with her child.

The magistrate's order does not indicate that the judge gave any weight to the fit mom's decision regarding visitation with grandpa. The judge gave only two facts of finding, 1) that the grandfather was not dangerous to the child and 2) that visitation was in the child's best interest. The Ohio Supreme Court has made it clear that that isn't good enough.

What's more, it is her legal right to appeal to the judge if the case has been ruled on by a magistrate.

Rmet, for once you need to leave your own bias at the door and recognize that this magistrate made an exceptionally bad order. Had he stated that grandpa could share dad's visitation, or that grandpa got a day once a month and time around holidays you would be closer to being correct. (but still not entirely correct) However, that is not the case.

 

[BelizeBreeze]

The simple fact is unless there is a mistake of law upon which the visitation order was promulgated, you can't appeal.

The order stands as written.