old foreign manuscripts

[2cents]

What is the name of your state? MD


There are some manuscripts that were created in a foreign country in 1933 as a result of a university preparation class (the manuscripts were used to teach the class) by one of the professors (the author) in the university. A small part of the manuscripts were published in a magazine in 1933 but the majority weren't. The manuscripts were later (posthumous) compiled and first published (all the manuscripts together) in 1966 and then later in 1983, 1988, 1997. These publications contain the manuscripts in their original form just like they were found (no alterartions - they are in a foreign language).

I would like to translate the manuscripts to english but I am not sure who owns the copyright or if the copyright expired or what. I have a copy of a book that contains the manuscripts and it contains three different copyrights by three different entities (the heirs of the professor 1983, a magazine 1983, and the actual publisher of the book 1997). The book does not have the @1966 on it, but the book inside says that it was all published in 1966.

1 Did the university own the actual copyright to the works even though the university does not exist anymore?

2 Can anybody do a derivative work and translate the works without the consent of all three copyright owners?

3 when would the copyright end?

TX

 

[BelizeBreeze]

1 Did the university own the actual copyright to the works even though the university does not exist anymore?

The heirs of the estate or the estate itself own the copyright

2 Can anybody do a derivative work and translate the works without the consent of all three copyright owners?

If you have consent then yes.

3 when would the copyright end?
TX

which copyright?

 

[2cents]

thanks for your reply

The heirs of the estate or the estate itself own the copyright

when do the heirs start owning the estate, when the person dies? if so, how long does it last? I guess I am trying to find out when statue of limitations would expire and therefore there would be no copyright, that would allow me to translate the manuscripts without obtaining permission. Since the manuscript were written in 1933, is that the date that the copyright clock starts ticking?

If you have consent then yes.

so that means I have to obtain the consent from all three parties: the heirs, the magazine and the publisher. pooof, there goes everything out of the window

which copyright?

the copyright that it is in the book that contains printed manuscripts. There are actually three of them. that is, there are 3 different @ copyrights on the second page of the book. That could be because the book contains additional things other than the manuscripts

TX

 

[divgradcurl]

There are some manuscripts that were created in a foreign country in 1933 as a result of a university preparation class (the manuscripts were used to teach the class) by one of the professors (the author) in the university. A small part of the manuscripts were published in a magazine in 1933 but the majority weren't.

Were the manuscripts that were published in 1933 published with formalities? In other words, did they have a copyright notice, as required in the U.S.?

The manuscripts were later (posthumous) compiled and first published (all the manuscripts together) in 1966 and then later in 1983, 1988, 1997. These publications contain the manuscripts in their original form just like they were found (no alterartions - they are in a foreign language).

In what country were these compilations published? Were they published with U.S. formalities? Do the 1997, 1988 and 1983 republications have the same materials as the 1966, or were more and more of the 1933 manuscripts first added with each republication?

1 Did the university own the actual copyright to the works even though the university does not exist anymore?

If there is a copyright, and if the university actually owned it (as opposed to the writer owning it), then figuring out who owns it now could be quite tricky. The heirs of the writer may own it, as BB suggests, or it may be owned by someone else.

2 Can anybody do a derivative work and translate the works without the consent of all three copyright owners?

Well, it depends on what exactly you want to do, and who owns what. You can't "recopyright" a work -- there is only one copyright in a work, and that is the one that is created when the work is created. That copyright can be licensed, or sold, but republishing something does not create a "new" copyright.

If the works were originally written in 1933, then the copyright ownership attached in 1933. Any later copyrights -- the 1966, 1983, and 1997 copyrights -- cannot be copyrights for the original works. They could be copyrights for the compilations, or, as you note, other information and formatting added during publication, but they cannot "recopyright" the original manuscripts.

So, if all you are doing is working from the original manuscript, even if it is the original manuscripts as found in a later published edition -- then the permission you need is from whomever owns the copyright to the original 1933 manuscipts. That may be the heirs of the author, of someone else they sold the rights to, or it may be public domain -- that'll be a detective story for you to figure out.

when would the copyright end?

That's why I asked the questions I did above -- there is no easy answer, and this is an especially complicated question because it deals with old works, some published and some unpublished, that were written outside the U.S. The works could be public domain, or they could be covered by copyright -- if they are covered by copyright, the earliest they would drop into the public domain would be 95 years from the date of publication, or 2027. We have long copyright terms these days.

But it is also quite possible that some of these works may be in the public domain, depending on exactly when and how each manuscript was published.

 

[divgradcurl]

when do the heirs start owning the estate, when the person dies?

Well, yeah -- because until someone dies, there are no heirs!

if so, how long does it last?

Depends, as I noted in the previous post I made. The copyrigt term generally is either based on the publication date, the creation date, or the life of the author + some amount of time. For example, if the works fell under the current laws (and they might), the copyright would last from the death of the author + 70 years -- so the heirs, and perhaps their heirs, would continue to hold the copyright until the 70 years from the passing of the author was up.

I guess I am trying to find out when statue of limitations would expire and therefore there would be no copyright, that would allow me to translate the manuscripts without obtaining permission. Since the manuscript were written in 1933, is that the date that the copyright clock starts ticking?

The "statute of limitations" here is the copyright term. There are essentially three types of copyright terms nowadays:

For published works when the author is known: Life + 70 years.
For published works when the author is unknown or pseudonymous, or for works published by a corporation: 95 years from date of publication.
For unpublished works: 120 years from date of creation.

So when the clock starts to "run" depends on what kind of work it is. It also depends on where, when and how is was published, or not -- that's the reason for all of the questions earlier. Figuring out copyright terms can be very complicated.

so that means I have to obtain the consent from all three parties: the heirs, the magazine and the publisher. pooof, there goes everything out of the window

No, you only need the permission from the owner of the copyright on the original manuscript. Who that might be, that's the question...

the copyright that it is in the book that contains printed manuscripts. There are actually three of them. that is, there are 3 different @ copyrights on the second page of the book. That could be because the book contains additional things other than the manuscripts

Probably. Like I noted in the other post, you can't recopyright things.

 

[BelizeBreeze]

I think this is going to end up being one of THOSE posts.

 

[2cents]

I do appreciate all your help. Your comments has helped me made up my mind.


I think that I will give up and not take the chance. It looks something very complicated and dangerous. I was going to translate the manuscripts and put them for free on the net, but that could get me in serious trouble.


Thanks