OT: Garden of Eden Room is Gone

[wileybunch]

What is the name of your state? Better

We implemented the "making your world smaller", referred to as Garden of Eden around this forum, with my 9yo's room tonight. She's the youngest of our combined 8 kids (has a twin brother) and reached the point that her inclination to be sassy and ungrateful was just too much. She truly has a Garden of Eden room. I dropped her off at soccer practice b/c I wasn't going to stay after the way she had been acting and called DH, gave him the run down, and said I think today is the day we make her world smaller. It took us 45 minutes to tear her room down. We left her beds (double bed and daybed w/trundle), but she can't sleep on them because we pulled the mattresses up, but put one mattress on the floor with a different sheet and pillowcase and old comforter we keep around for whatever. We left her dressers and desk, but took every drawer out and out of her room. DH changed the doorknob to her closet to one with a lock. We took down all decorations except ones of the Savior. She had tons of books and those are all gone (except her scriptures). We even took her lamps (she can use the ceiling fan light).

I've never gone to this extent with a child before, but have always known I could/would. I did the removing door from hinges in '96 with my now 25yo moreso b/c she was slamming it, so I don't have the whole earn back plan in place since there is so much to earn back, but she's not earning anything back in the next day or two so we have time to figure that out.

If you've implemented this in your home before and would like to share how it worked for you, feel free (unless Mary decides this thread is too OT to stay here).

 

[CJane]

I haven't had to implement it in my home because... well, because my kids are angels.

Seriously though, I've never had a behavioral issue w/my girls. However, I've recommended this to other parents and it's worked REALLY well as long as you are totally willing to NOT give in to whining/crying/bargaining.

And don't worry so much about a clear path to regaining things. No 'if you do X you can have Y back'. That leads to bargaining.

 

[summerdawn]

I just did this recently. OG came and gave me a lot of suggestions.

The day after I did this with my 12 year old I started an adolescent parenting class in which they emphasized that children are here and now people. They think of things NOW and are very self centered. The class recommended letting him earn one thing back per day. If he was good, he got to earn one thing. I chose the thing he earned back (so he didn't get to earn all the cool stuff and then give up when the cool stuff was back.) He started earning stuff the very next day, one item at a time. If he didn't behave that day he didn't earn anything back-and if he had already earned something back, it was taken from him again. He was SO excited to earn his comforter back instead of having to use the ratty old blanket I gave him for the duration lol. He was also excited to start earning clothing back-all I left him with was uniform stuff. The first couple of nights he had pb&j for dinner as well. (Per OG's great suggestion.) He actually has been doing a great job for a few weeks now (not long but the longest run we've had yet so I have hope.)

I HAVE done this in the past, and just left his stuff at my mom's with no definite idea of when he would get it back. He became discouraged and felt like he might NEVER get it back so it just didn't work. I found that he responded better when I gave him a clear way to know that getting things back was in HIS hands-would he behave and earn it or not?

When I took the stuff out of his room I had no clue really where I was going with it-I just knew I was fed up. LOL. The parenting course gave me some great ideas.

The class i'm taking has a website: www.parentproject.com

I have to say, the room thing isn't the only thing we're doing-I am taking an out of control adolescent parenting class, he is in counseling once a week with a counselor who sees high risk children (tomorrow is his 5th session), and he has recently gotten involved with a church youth group that he really enjoys. He gets to go there twice per week plus whatever special events they have-but he can only go to the special events if he earns it with good behavior.

Good luck! we have our good days and our bad days. Lucky for me, the past few weeks have been mostly good ones. He has brought home great behavior weekly summaries for four weeks straight now. I hope it continues!

ETA: Here is the link to the thread I posted about this.
https://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?t=404484
A lot of people had some great ideas. It helped me a LOT.

I don't think I have ever heard my son thank me as much as he does recently after experienceing what it was like to not eat dinners with us, have to make himself pb&js, etc. etc. etc. He has become quite an appreciative kid recently lol.

 

[Isis1]

I just did this recently. OG came and gave me a lot of suggestions.

The day after I did this with my 12 year old I started an adolescent parenting class in which they emphasized that children are here and now people. They think of things NOW and are very self centered. The class recommended letting him earn one thing back per day. If he was good, he got to earn one thing. I chose the thing he earned back (so he didn't get to earn all the cool stuff and then give up when the cool stuff was back.) He started earning stuff the very next day, one item at a time. If he didn't behave that day he didn't earn anything back-and if he had already earned something back, it was taken from him again. He was SO excited to earn his comforter back instead of having to use the ratty old blanket I gave him for the duration lol. He was also excited to sar earning clothing back-all I left him with was uniform stuff. The first couple of nights he had pb&j for dinner as well. (Per OG's great suggestion.) He actually has been doing a great job for a few weeks now (not long but the longest run we've had yet so I have hope.)

I HAVE done this in the past, and just left his stuff at my mom's with no definite idea of when he would get it back. He became discouraged and felt like he might NEVER get it back so it just didn't work. I found that he responded better when I gave him a clear way to know that getting things back was in HIS hands-would he behave and earn it or not?

When I took the stuff out of his room I had no clue really where I was going with it-I just knew I was fed up. LOL. The parenting course gave me some great ideas.

The class i'm taking has a website: www.parentproject.com

I have to say, the room thing isn't the only thing we're doing-I am taking an out of control adolescent parenting class, he is in counseling once a week with a counselor who sees high risk children (tomorrow is his 5th session), and he has recently gotten involved with a church youth group that he really enjoys. He gets to go there twice per week plus whatever special events they have-but he can only go to the special events if he earns it with good behavior.

Good luck! we have our good days and our bad days. Lucky for me, the past few weeks have been mostly good ones. He has brought home great behavior weekly summaries for four weeks straight now. I hope it continues!

wooohoooo@summer!! i actually thought of you reading this post and was wondering how your "stripdown" was working. i'm glad it is doing so well

 

[summerdawn]

wooohoooo@summer!! i actually thought of you reading this post and was wondering how your "stripdown" was working. i'm glad it is doing so well

YES! LOL! Thank you!! I have really wanted to come back and update but it was OT and I wasn't sure if I should. I know the original thread was OT too but it's not like this site is my own personal blog or something rofl so I didn't want to keep posting threads about my home life! I was just DYING to share how well he has been doing lately! I'm so excited!

6th grade graduation is on Jue 11th and he wants a suit and tie to wear.

 

[wileybunch]

And don't worry so much about a clear path to regaining things. No 'if you do X you can have Y back'. That leads to bargaining.

Exactly. She first tried to say she didn't even want the pictures of Christ on her shelf. She was told to put them back exactly as she found them and then asked if she was trying to blame the pictures for the situation she was in. After her initial anger, she's taking it well. She knows there's nothing to be earned back at least for the next several days. And, she's realized *everything* is gone. She can be a good girl, a good helper, etc., but she's developed a restlessness, nasty attitude if she can't have what she wants, and thinks she runs the show. I asked DH if we'll be kneeling at her mattress tonight saying prayers before bedtime. Should be fun.

 

[Perky]

I wish I had known about/thought about "stripping down" when my boys were younger. During their high school years, there were times when I was clearly an ineffective authority figure! I muddled through it the best I could, but I felt pretty defeated sometimes.

Anyway, I just wanted to say good luck, and to let you know that it gets better. Honest!

 

[summerdawn]

Exactly. She first tried to say she didn't even want the pictures of Christ on her shelf. She was told to put them back exactly as she found them and then asked if she was trying to blame the pictures for the situation she was in. After her initial anger, she's taking it well. She knows there's nothing to be earned back at least for the next several days. And, she's realized *everything* is gone. She can be a good girl, a good helper, etc., but she's developed a restlessness, nasty attitude if she can't have what she wants, and thinks she runs the show. I asked DH if we'll be kneeling at her mattress tonight saying prayers before bedtime. Should be fun.

It's nice to know that she's taking it well...my first day went prettttty crazy lol. Mine is a bit older than yours though, and already going through puberty so we have had some crazy mood swings around here.

Good luck with your bedtime prayers.

 

[soon2bstep]

to the "strippers"(haha) of Garden Of Eden

so this really works???

my 13 y/o sister is turning into her father(there's alot to that, i'm skipping it).....

she balls her fist when my mom gets onto her, she's cheated on a test with a friend(this is the 1st time, maybe not the last?), she does her chores, but when SHE wants to do the, which is extending her bedtime...she'll stay at friends houses and takes advantage of mom not having a car, by having parents call and say something came up, they'll bring her home later.....there's alot more, and my mom actually had to "spank" her last weekend, b/c apparently she decided to scream back at her! i never screamed(my sisters father made sure of this and other things)....she is rude and downright hateful to my 9 y/o brother, and i've tried to talk to her, and to my mom about her not looking at my sister as if she were thinking "i've been through this with your sister", etc....

so now that i've read your thread, i'm curious if this would work out? wow, she'd die, b/c my moms bf took away the speakers to her stereo(haha!), but really that's all we thought of her having she would "lose"....she has a tv, but the pic is out, so it doesnt even really count.....

thanks for this idea, b/c i think if she knew what she had, she'd actually *work* for it so to speak!

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

I believe Garden of Eden will be happening with sassy 11 yo in my house. Besides the fact that I can't stand a trashed bedroom.

so, please keep us apprised of the situation.

 

[Humusluvr]

Man, I love you guys! I'm glad to hear that you all are instilling some respect into your kiddos. I see so many at the high school where I teach that I wish would have "Garden of Eden" done to them. Its amazing when a 15 year old kid tries to tell you how to do your job, or tells you what he is going to do rather than asking. They sure don 't get far with me. I use the Queen Victoria, icy stare. We are NOT amused.

 

[wileybunch]

summerdawn, I'm really glad your efforts are working for your DS. That's great!

My nephew (now a married adult) went to the CYA as a teen. They have to earn everything there, too. The thing is, they don't love the youth there. Maybe some workers do, but it's not part of the job. As a parent, this is done with love in the hopes of turning out a child with character and respect for themself and others. I don't know quite how it is that some kids veer off so far. I know with my twins that they are awesome kids, truly know right from wrong to a pretty high-level degree for their age, I think, and yet they don't always choose to exercise it. They have always had each other that feeds their egos and they have had DH's older kids pull crap w/him so bad influences there (that comes from their mother -- talk about having adult issues effect the kids, it even effects stepsiblings). But, I just decided that I do not CARE what the reason is why, the bottom line is that a child can have the worst set of circumstances with various people and still make a good life and be happy. We have a counselor we can use, too, but I think DD will pull out of this w/o needing that, but won't hesitate to take her if I think we're not getting to the bottom of it. The thing is the twins were both dx with ADHD several years ago. Ped said he always has to determine if it's a parenting issue or a true chemical issue with the child's brain and that he knew it wasn't a parenting issue. While I do believe they had all those impulse control issues, I told DH last night it apparently also was a parenting issue. It's not like we have easy kids and blew it, but we were not meeting their needs the best they needed them.

soon2bstep and Ginny, those thinking about this .....
Ask yourself the question if you think things are spinning out of control and you've had to up the ante to get the kids' attention. The "spanking" the 13yo is a telltale sign, IMO. I think as a parent you just need to say enough is enough, stop the insanity. I'd been working up to this for a while. DH and I were raised in a way that we didn't even think to talk back to our parents. Ever. Not even a possibility. And, we still carry with us what we believe the structure of the family should be. My older adult girls are like "friends" in many ways, but I'm still their mother, they still need me to be their mother, etc. At the age of my younger 2, they do NOT need me to be their friend. So it was like living an ironic bad dream every day that these kids who are so privileged and have so much more than their older siblings just b/c Mom/Dad are older/in a better place are horribly mouthy, ungrateful, etc. (and yet other times their exquisitely strong good characters are there and we know they have that in them, but choose to be off the charts). So yesterday a switch flipped and I had to break it down. I simply could not escalate high enough above an out of control child to get their attention and I didn't want to any more. My brain was so scrambled, though, that I asked DH to tell me if we had a place to put everything and if he said "yes", we were on. She's still able to do soccer, go to her girl's group at church, go with us to her brother's scout activities and Little League, etc. She can read her library books if she asks and we say "yes" (but if we say "no" and she badgers, she knows they go back to the library). She's not as stripped down completely as a wild teenager might have to be. We are developing a list of expectations to print out and go over with both of the kids.

We may have to do the same thing with her twin brother to get his attention to change behavior. Will be interesting to see if we can achieve the same results with one starting from scratch and the other seeing that he's next if he doesn't shape up, but still surrounded by all his privilege nonetheless.

 

[wileybunch]

I use the Queen Victoria, icy stare. We are NOT amused.

One of my signs of success is actually that my kids will understand from a SUBTLE queue that they are doing something unacceptable and get it back in line.

 

[Humusluvr]

We may have to do the same thing with her twin brother to get his attention to change behavior. Will be interesting to see if we can achieve the same results with one starting from scratch and the other seeing that he's next if he doesn't shape up, but still surrounded by all his privilege nonetheless.

I have this great mental picture of you pointing at the twin and saying, with a deep and scary voice, "You're next." ooooooohhhhhhh ominous!

 

[Humusluvr]

One of my signs of success is actually that my kids will understand from a SUBTLE queue that they are doing something unacceptable and get it back in line.

I KNOW that my students LOVE to get a rise out of their teachers by creating drama. when they learn (quickly) that I DONT DO DRAMA, its much easier to get them in line.