Pas

[jimmitycrickits]

What is the name of your state? Michigan

I have been reading up on parental alienation syndrome, and it appears that the general concensus is that a custodial parent always is the one to inflict this.

My question is this, is possible for it to go the other way? Or when a NCP, and those associated with the NCP, make negative comments about the CP, is it called something different than PAS?

Comments that have been made to my child are definitely indicative of an attempt to alienate me, the cp, from my child.

Thank you.

 

[tigger22472]

I do believe that it can happen however the theory of PAS is really up in arms. Here is a site talking about the guy who 'invented" PAS and came up with the 'idea'.
http://www.cincinnatipas.com/richardgardner-pas.html
(http://www.cincinnatipas.com/anthraxinthehood.html It's been a while since I read this story but if I remember correctly it is a case of the NCP doing this to the CP)

With current events it all depends on a judge as to wether they believe this to be a valid argument or theory.

It is my opinion that yes this can happen but it can be prevented. If you have a good relationship with your child you let them know they can come to you with any questions they have or if they hear something that worries them. Another really good thing to do is document everything. Have something to back your statements up. Also speak logically with your child. I have been in a situation where the NCP tried using statements like "I don't see you because your mom won't let me"... "I went to your house and you weren't there, that's how I found out you moved".. ETC. My children came to me with these statements. To the first one I would ask them who took them to see their father when they saw him.... "You did Mommy"... and who picked you up..."You did Mommy"... Ok... "Well, if I didn't want you to see him would I take you there?" When they came to me with the house statement I reminded them that their aunt knew where we had moved to and although dad wanted to play the act of not giving an address etc. I knew he knew where we were. I asked them how many times their father had come to our house. The total was about 3. I asked them how many of those 3 times did he JUST SHOW up without notice (we lived over a hour away) and they said None. So logic told them he wouldn't of shown up unannounced. In the end the kids realize what is going on. But again, have things to back up your statements. Depending on the age of the child/ren is how much you can really reach them. With the above examples my children were about 7 and 10.

 

[jimmitycrickits]

Thank you for your input. My child is 4 years old. She is being told that she needs to keep these secrets from me, or the NCP, and his significant other will be mad at her.

Last week-end she was told that in a few months she was going to live with them, and that she would never see me again. She held this secret in for 3 days, and finally had an anxiety attack...cold sweat, stark white skin, acute abdominal pain, which was all relieved the moment she saw me. I was at work when this happened. When we returned home from the er, she told me her big secret, and then said, "oh I should not have told you that now _____ is going to be mad at me."

I was stunned. She says there are more secrets, and she is very afraid to tell me. She is also terrified that either I am going to leave her, or she is going to be taken away. I stayed home from work yesterday, just to reassure her that I am not leaving her. This morning she cried when I left.

 

[casa]

to: jimmitycrickits

Absolutely- I believe it can be NCP against CP.

In my case I have physical custody but have joint legal with other parent.
He has done so many things that could be construed as PAS. The courts are scattered about PAS though- Not only if it exists, but how to prove it, and even what to do about it.

Example in my case: Other parent says horrible things about me, even tells court it is the child saying things. (Although due to child's age some of the things could not possibly have been said by the child) The other parent has also made just about every allegation you can make against me. It makes me very very upset- but I have to just remain as calm as possible and cooperate in any way I can through the courts. If they say a certain allegation- I do whatever I can to disprove it. Examples: X said I was on drugs, so I immediately volunteered to drug test. X called CPS to make false abuse/neglect claim, so I gave full access to CPS and signed all releases and allowed them in house etc. without fighting it. X said daughter didn't want to come home to me after visitation- so I brought family members to pick up to see her running to me with open arms as witness'.

My daughter is young and I try not to get into specifics with her~ But she's said "Daddy will be so sad when you don't let me see him" and I reply "I'll always let you see Daddy- no matter what". Or she'll say "---- (Dad's g/f) said Daddy shouldn't tell you anything" and I just reply "Well Daddy can always talk to me if he wants to". etcetera.
Lately my daughter has taken to saying things like "My Daddy lied and said ---- (allegation of the month/week)" and I reply "Is that true?" and she'll say "Yes" and I'll say "Well maybe Daddy was confused about that" and then move the subject on to something else.

My OPINION? Answer briefly in age appropriate manner and try to move on to another topic. It will make it worse if you engage in similar behavior or try to combat the issues through the child. I would keep the debate and hearsay to an absolute minimum with the child(ren).

This is a horrible thing to do to children. If you suspect it is happening- take your child(ren) to a therapist immediately. They need to be able to learn how to express their confusion and get support. Also this will document and clarify if your child is experiencing this. It will be useful in court should a custody battle ensue.

Good luck to you

 

[tigger22472]

I remember the days when my kids would let things slip and then the other would say "Daddy said not to tell".. etc. The last time my children saw their bio was in July of 2001 at that time he told them he was dying and would never see them again. They had actually been visiting my mother and my youngest boy kept asking her when they came back about secrets. My mom told him that it was ok to have secrets with one of his parents but she said he kept talking about it, so finally she told him that although it's fine to have them if it's something that bothers him he should tell. This is when we found out what he had said. My older son vomited for over 24 hours, could talk of NOTHING but what his father said. This continued literally until he was in front of his home. I had to stop 3 times coming home so he could vomit and yet when we got home he was fine and ready to play with his friends.

I would sit your daughter down and pretty much tell her the same thing. Allow her to know that you will protect her and that although you MIGHT have to mention to NCP about what he's said she's to let you know if there are any reprecussion to this. If you truely feel that your child will be in danger if NCP finds out you know about this then tow a line. Use the number one rule, document, document, document. Emotional abuse , is abuse and if it continues I suggest speaking to a social worker, put your child in counseling... have a third party witness to these things. Counseling isn't a bad idea if they can get the child to open up. There could be other things involved that she's scared to tell you that are dangerous.

 

[jimmitycrickits]

Thanks casa, and tigger for your insights.

My child is going to see a psychologist next week. I am just praying that she will not have another anxiety attack, and that this secret is the biggest one that she has inside of her.

 

[tigger22472]

Thanks casa, and tigger for your insights.

My child is going to see a psychologist next week. I am just praying that she will not have another anxiety attack, and that this secret is the biggest one that she has inside of her.

That is good because in this day and age as sad as it is little credit is given to a parent that accuses another of any kind of abuse, especially mental abuse It's very important to have a third party that isn't connected in any way to the situation to see things.

 

[stealth2]

My ex (NCP) has tried to pull this sort of sh*t, too, from the start of our dicorve/custody proceedings. So we're talking 6+ years. I've always reinforced that there is nothing they can't tell me. I'm really not interested in what Dad's doing, but I AM interested in what they're doing - whether it's home with me or Dad. And emphasized that if there's something going on that makes them unhappy or uncomfortable, they need to tell me or Dad (or another trusted adult) so we can help - it's not about getting me or Dad in trouble. It's about making sure that they're in the best possible situation.

They tell me pretty much everything. Some things I tell them that they need to talk to their Dad about. Some things I'll handle. The key is to keep communication open.